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ScoutDadof5

Square Knots...Are you game? (Just for fun)

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Just thought I would revive a long dead thread.

 

 

#1 - Air Scouting/Air Exploring ACE Award Knot

 

#2 - Explorer Silver Award Knot, used for

 

* Explorer/Air Explorer Silver Award

 

* Explorer Achievement Award

 

* Explorer G.O.L.D. Award

 

* Explorer Scout Ranger Award (when its unique knot was dropped early on)

 

* Air Scout/Air Explorer Ace Award (again, when its unique knot was dropped early on)

 

#3 Arrow of Light Knot

 

#4 - Silver World Award Knot

 

#5 - Scoutmaster Award of Merit Knot (also used as or known as)

 

* Varsity Scout Coach Award of Merit

 

* Venturing Advisor Award of Merit

 

* NESA Outstanding Scoutmaster

 

#6 - Eagle Scout Knot

 

#7 - Cubmaster Award Knot

 

#8 - William D. Boyce New-Unit Organizer Award Knot

 

#9 - Tiger Cub Den Leader Knot

 

#10 - Pack Trainer Award Knot

 

#11 - Scouters Key Award Knot

 

#12 - Silver Beaver Award Knot (Also used for the Silver Fawn Award)

 

#13 Scouters Training Award Knot

 

#14 - International Scouter Award

 

#15 - "Youth" Religious Award Knot

 

#16 - Distinguished Commissioner Service Award

 

#17 - Cub Scouter Award Knot

 

#18 - Community Organization Award Knot

 

#19 - William T. Hornaday Award Knot

 

#20 - Heroism Award Knot

 

#21 - George Meaney AFL-CIO Award Knot

 

#22 - Professional Scouter Training Award Knot (Also known as the Professional Circle or Fellowship Honor Knot)

 

#23 - Medal of Merit Knot

 

#24 - Honor Medal Knot (also with Crossed Palms (Very Rare))

 

#25 - District Award of Merit Knot

 

#26 - Cub Scout Den Leader Award Knot, now known as Den Leader Award Knot

 

#27 - Venturing Silver Award Knot

 

#28 - Silver Antelope Knot

 

#29 - Silver Buffalo Knot

 

#30 - Vale La Pena Award Knot (or Premio por Servicio ScoutingVale la Pena! Service Award Knot)

 

#31 - Asian American Spirit of Scouting Award Knot

 

#32 - William H. Spurgeon Award Knot

 

#33 - Adult religious award Knot

 

#34 - Sea Badge Award Knot (Participant 1 trident, Staff 2 Tridents, Course Director 3 Tridents)

 

#35 - Quartermaster Award Knot

 

#36 - James West Award Knot

 

#37 - Webelos Den Leader Award Knot

 

#38 - OA Distinguished service Award Knot

 

#39 - Whitney Young Service Award Knot

 

#40 - Venturing Leadership Award Knot

 

#41 - Explorer Scout Ranger Award Knot

 

#42 Den Leader Coach Award Knot

 

#43 Skippers Key Award Knot

 

#44 Antarctica Award Knot (Not sure if that was ever official though)

 

#45 - Eagles Scout Knot (NESA Lifetime Member)

 

#46 - Speaker Bank Award Knot

 

#47 - Philmont Training Center Master Track AwardKnot

 

#48 - Doctorate of Commissioner Science Award Knot

 

#49 - Unit Leader Award Knot

 

#50 - Commissioners Award of Excellence Knot(This message has been edited by click23)

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I do not like knots on my uniform now but if they would let me attach them to dreadlocks I might let my hair grow out. I think it might be a good look.

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#52 - Scouting Service Award

 

The new knot recognizes Scouters who have earned one of these five awards:

 

Asian American Spirit of Scouting Service Award*
¡Scouting…Vale la Pena! Service Award*
Whitney M. Young Jr. Service Award*
American Indian Scouting Association Grey Wolf Award
Special Needs Scouting Service Award

Each of the awards marked with a * above currently has its own square knot. But once supplies of those knots run out, the new Scouting Service Award knot will be used to recognize recipients.

 

Scouting-Service-Award-illustrated.jpg?r

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Let me reformat the list after the forum software upgrade:

 

 

#1 - Air Scouting/Air Exploring ACE Award Knot
#2 - Explorer Silver Award Knot, used for * Explorer/Air Explorer Silver Award * Explorer Achievement Award * Explorer G.O.L.D. Award * Explorer Scout Ranger Award (when its unique knot was dropped early on) * Air Scout/Air Explorer Ace Award (again, when its unique knot was dropped early on)
#3 Arrow of Light Knot
#4 - Silver World Award Knot
#5 - Scoutmaster Award of Merit Knot (also used as or known as) * Varsity Scout Coach Award of Merit * Venturing Advisor Award of Merit * NESA Outstanding Scoutmaster
#6 - Eagle Scout Knot
#7 - Cubmaster Award Knot
#8 - William D. Boyce New-Unit Organizer Award Knot
#9 - Tiger Cub Den Leader Knot
#10 - Pack Trainer Award Knot
#11 - Scouters Key Award Knot
#12 - Silver Beaver Award Knot (Also used for the Silver Fawn Award)
#13 Scouters Training Award Knot
#14 - International Scouter Award
#15 - "Youth" Religious Award Knot
#16 - Distinguished Commissioner Service Award
#17 - Cub Scouter Award Knot
#18 - Community Organization Award Knot
#19 - William T. Hornaday Award Knot
#20 - Heroism Award Knot
#21 - George Meaney AFL-CIO Award Knot
#22 - Professional Scouter Training Award Knot (Also known as the Professional Circle or Fellowship Honor Knot)
#23 - Medal of Merit Knot
#24 - Honor Medal Knot (also with Crossed Palms (Very Rare))
#25 - District Award of Merit Knot
#26 - Cub Scout Den Leader Award Knot, now known as Den Leader Award Knot
#27 - Venturing Silver Award Knot
#28 - Silver Antelope Knot
#29 - Silver Buffalo Knot
#30 - Vale La Pena Award Knot (or Premio por Servicio ScoutingVale la Pena! Service Award Knot)
#31 - Asian American Spirit of Scouting Award Knot
#32 - William H. Spurgeon Award Knot
#33 - Adult religious award Knot
#34 - Sea Badge Award Knot (Participant 1 trident, Staff 2 Tridents, Course Director 3 Tridents)
#35 - Quartermaster Award Knot #36 - James West Award Knot
#37 - Webelos Den Leader Award Knot
#38 - OA Distinguished service Award Knot
#39 - Whitney Young Service Award Knot #40 - Venturing Leadership Award Knot
#41 - Explorer Scout Ranger Award Knot #42 Den Leader Coach Award Knot
#43 Skippers Key Award Knot
#44 Antarctica Award Knot (Not sure if that was ever official though)
#45 - Eagles Scout Knot (NESA Lifetime Member)
#46 - Speaker Bank Award Knot
#47 - Philmont Training Center Master Track AwardKnot
#48 - Doctorate of Commissioner Science Award Knot
#49 - Unit Leader Award Knot
#50 - Commissioners Award of Excellence Knot
#51 - Alumni Award Red
#52 - Scouting Service Award

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...and this is why knots should be limited. You'll end up looking like this. 17 knots? Really?

 

daman.jpg

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If you've earned them, and want to wear them, go ahead.   I don't really get excited over it one way or the other.   They do provide good conversation starters.  But  there are opinions all over the board, some are ready to tar and feather anybody who even thinks about wearing a knot, and others who degrade people that don't wear them.   Enough already, we are all scouters together in this.

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...and this is why knots should be limited. You'll end up looking like this. 17 knots? Really?

 

daman.jpg

 

His response to that:

 

 

You look like a General in the Scouts. Are you one? Can you explain all of the badges you proudly wear please?

Thanks for the compliment. Actually, I am more like an old Sergeant Major or Chief Master Petty Officer -- one of those "old guys" that have been around the program for a long time and can tell you many things about the program today and in the past - some not in print! There are people who say that I don't "have a life" even though I really do have an active life. Between my hobbies, which include travel, reading, writing and listening to a variety of music, I have family and great friends all over the nation whom I visit or stay in touch with. I enjoy yard sales and auctions, and not just for the Scouting-related items. My home is designed in "Early American Yard Sale", with many of the things housing books, binders and knic-knacks coming from other homes!

Others have stated that "I'm a show-off", wearing "every badge I've ever earned or received". In reality, I could not fit everything I have received or earned over a fourty-plus year Scouting period on my shirt, nor would I want to do so if I could! I only wear a HALF of the awards I have received or earned; some I have refused to wear simply because I feel they were just "given" to me as an excuse and not for anything I have truly performed or was deeply involved in.

And if I had to wear only one of those "knot things" on my shirt, my Eagle Scout Badge with the Silver and Gold palms would be the one I would choose to wear.

I am very sensitive to wearing the shirt you see above to formal Scouting events; there are other events in which I will "tone down the Christmas Tree", as as my second former spouse Jessica called that shirt. Instead, I will wear another shirt with much less items on it. Unless I'm a part of the program, a "toned down" shirt is what I would wear to Eagle Scout Courts of Honor, shifting the "wow" from some guy standing in the back or side of the room to where it needs to be -- with the Scout being honored with the highest rank in Boy Scouting: the Eagle Scout Badge.

I keep a shirt and set of Wood Badge beads in the trunk of my car just for those "drive by" opportunities!

The awards I wear can be earned or received by any volunteer, and in the grander scheme of life, I hold only a few of those special awards. There are many, many others whom have received or earned many, many more of those special awards than I have. Most recently, I was honored by the Iraqi Scouting Association with their National Service Award; and have received other nation's service awards (among them, one from Germany and the other from the Netherlands). I am also an Silver Beaver Award holder. I do hold two local or Regional "Silver" (Silver Big Horn and Silver Scouter) Awards. However, I am NOT a Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow.

I am a receipient of the Arrow of Light (Cub Scouting), Eagle Scout (Boy Scouting) and Exploring Achievement (Exploring) Awards. Additionally, I hold the William T. Hornaday Conservation Award, the BSA Heroism Award, and the Youth Leadership in America Award earned as a Post President. I have earned a youth and received several adult religious emblems; and has been honored with several awards for service to a Council Exploring Division, to the Exploring program of a local Council, and to rural and urban youth in the central western part of Appalachia. I own the National, two Regional and two local Council Exploring Leadership Awards.

I have received training awards as a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Exploring, and Sea Exploring leader; training keys as a Scoutmaster, Explorer Advisor, Committeemember, and Commissioner; the Distinguished Commissioner Award of Merit as well as Awards of Merit for service as an Exploring leader and as a Scoutmaster. I also hold the three-bead Wood Badge and the Sea Badge advanced volunteer training awards.

On my uniform shirt I wear an international encampment emblem (called InterCamp) in which I attended and later served on staff of for several years; and an Order of the Arrow Lodge flap from one of the three Lodges in which I did most of my service within (Zit-Kala-Sha). The other two Lodges are Black Eagle (in Europe) and Kawida (in central and eastern Kentucky). I have uniforms with flaps from all three Lodges as well as with the flap from the local Council's lodge in which I'm associated with when I'm there...

You won't find an Eagle Scout Badge on my shirt, but rather a square knot emblem (if you look really close in the above photo, it's in the center of the second row... adults wear the square knot associated with the award; youth members wear the actual award) which represents the fact that I have earned Eagle.

 

 

http://www.scoutinsignia.com/mwalton.htm

 

 Mike Walton (settummanque) // November 21, 2012 at 10:18 pm // Reply

Jerry: The “nine†number Bryan referred to is *suggested* and does appear in the current edition of the Insignia (Control) Guide. The number has been going up and down — it was nine before the 2010 National Scout Jamboree; then it was 15 and then 12 after the Jamboree. The Task Force on Insignia and Uniforming hasn’t made a definative official decision…because as I’ve illustrated above here and elsewhere, it’s really tough to tell Scouters who have been a part of the movement for 60, 70 years that “you can only wear nine of those…â€

With time, we’ll get back down to something around 24 of them, and most Scouters will be wearing something around nine to 15 of them over their lifetime.

 

Mike Walton (settummanque) // March 6, 2014 at 5:29 pm // Reply

I did this before in another discussion which went down this line…but here goes again:

Which NINE or 12 (or even 15!) you want *me* to wear, Bob?

Do I wear only the six youth awards I earned as a kid? Okay. I can do this. This leaves three more (if we’re going at nine being the ‘top limit’) or six more (which would make it 12).

Do I wear the Scouters’ Training Award and Scouters’ Key? Okay. How about the adult Religious emblem? Ummm yeah. Gotta represent the faith and the other faiths which gave me their religious service medallions. How about the Whitney Young Service Award? District Award of Merit? Silver Beaver — oh yeah.

(keeping track of the number??)

So now I am faced with decisions: Do I wear the International Scouter Award? The Speakers Bank Award? West Fellowship?

Um…Don’t know. And then there’s a couple others like the Boyce Organizer Award and the Sea Badge. Wait. I can wear the actual Sea Badge on the uniform where it’s supposed to be worn. One less knot.

Then there’s those five Cub Scout (Training) award knots. I earned the WEBELOS Den Leader, Cub Scouter, Den Leader Coach — and then because I’m one of those OLD guys, the old Den Leader Training and Den Leader Coach Training Awards.

So tell me — which nine, 12, or even 15 do I wear? Go to my website and look at the photo of me outside Baghdad, Iraq and you’ll see which ones I have decided and which ones I chose otherwise.

THAT is why we have problems with this…because each person, NOT the BSA, has made their own valued decisions for their own reasons, what personal recognitions they chose to wear on the field uniform. And dude — I am NOT going to be *that guy* who walks up to some 80 or 90 year old Scouter and tell him “sir, you can only wear nine of those now….you look foolish.â€

I’d rather be slapped around with a cold salmon, thank you very much! *smiling*

 

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/11/20/in-the-loop-a-guide-to-square-knots-and-how-to-wear-them/

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I have only two patches on my shirt that mean anything to me.  One is the SM position patch and the other is the Trained patch.

 

My old Venturing patch had Advisor patch and Trained patch.

 

My UC shirt has has UC patch and Trained patch.

 

Everything else including loops, shirt color, and service pins, knots, etc. are irrelevant.

 

Your mileage may vary.

Edited by Stosh

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Still...are we in it for ourselves or the kids? We really need 17 to demonstrate you are a skilled, experienced leader?

 

to each his own I guess.  Though I'd say 40+ years of volunteering your life to Scouts is pretty "for the kids"

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to each his own I guess.  Though I'd say 40+ years of volunteering your life to Scouts is pretty "for the kids"

 

Let's not lose focus here. No one is questioning the guy's commitment to the program or kids. My point was some adults seek the adulation for show, e.g., knots galore. 

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Let's not lose focus here. No one is questioning the guy's commitment to the program or kids. My point was some adults seek the adulation for show, e.g., knots galore. 

 

oh, I don't disagree.  I'm not saying you're questioning his commitment and my original response was specific to Mike Walton, who was the man in the photo, not others who do it solely for the knots.  

 

I think my point was, if you earn the knots through service to the organization and the boys it serves, great, wear em if you want, don't wear em if you dont want.  If you're doing it for personal glorification, you're doing it for the wrong reasons, but maybe, hopefully, someone else doesn't know that maybe it inspires others around you to become registered leaders and dedicate their time to Scouting and will do it for the right reasons.  

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I think the key is being judicious and having a sense of taste and propriety, which admittedly is sorely lacking nowadays. Current BSA guidelines indicate that no more than three rows, or nine knots, should be worn on the uniform. So if you have earned nine such knots, great - wear them. But once you reach such a level that you have earned 10 knots or more, this is when you need to decide which knots mean most to you, and which you want to display. This might vary according to the image you want to convey; perhaps you want people to see your heroism awards so that you can talk about how Scouting can save lives; perhaps you have received one of the Scouting Service awards and want to draw attention to the cultural or special needs groups you work with. Perhaps your Eagle or your religious knot means a great deal to you personally. Those are all, I suppose, good reasons to select which nine knots you will wear.  

 

However - there are those who think that if you earn it, you should wear it. My question is: why? Are nine knots not good enough? Are you worried people will not give you the "respect" you think you deserve because they don't know that "THANK YOU I HAVE ACTUALLY EARNED 14 KNOTS SO RESPECT ME DARN IT?!" If you can't be happy wearing nine knots - which, mind you, is A LOT OF KNOTS, then you need to question why you wear them in the first place.

 

Many people know how to wear the uniform properly, but fewer know how to wear it gracefully. Wearing more knots than are officially recommended might be done under the pretext that they are there to start conversations (as though this was somehow virtuous in and of itself) or justified by the claim that "I earned them so don't I have the right to wear them?" or even the idea that others will see them and "be inspired" to serve based on seeing all of their knots (honestly I cannot imagine anybody registering as a Scouter because they saw somebody's knots, and if so, what a bizarre reason to join!). In any case, these people would rather ignore policy in favor of recognition; it's their choice. But what it says is not so much that they have earned many awards, which indeed speaks to a person's good works, as much as the fact that they want others to know that they have earned them. And that also speaks volumes about a person's character.

 

It brings to mind Matthew 6:2 "Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."

and then in verse 21, "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

 

Are our hearts on the Scouts themselves, or on the knots we are awarded by serving them?

Edited by The Latin Scot
  • Upvote 1

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A couple of comments.

 

First regarding

 

"#2 - Explorer Silver Award Knot, used for * Explorer/Air Explorer Silver Award * Explorer Achievement Award * Explorer G.O.L.D. Award * Explorer Scout Ranger Award (when its unique knot was dropped early on) * Air Scout/Air Explorer Ace Award (again, when its unique knot was dropped early on)"

 

You could also add Young American Award to the list. That was an Exploring recognition that council's and national gave out. Don't remember if regions did or not. I had a friend recognized as with the Young American Award. My current council would recognize 1 youth from each high school in the council with the award.  2 national Young American Award recipients came from my council.

 

 

Regarding the number of knots someone wears, as mentioned in his response, that number has gone up and down over the years. (Except for Sea Scouts and their leaders, Those involved in Sea Scouting have been limited to 6 since I was a Sea Explorer back in the day.) You got long time Scouters who still have the same uniform since forever. I know I got shirts over 20 years old that I still wear. Sometimes it's easier to leave something on than to take it off, and have, for lack of a better term, tan lines on your uniform. I still got regional insignia on 2 shirts because when I tried to take it off when I was no longer a DE, it was noticeable that  a patch was worn there. Ditto with another patch.

 

And unfortunately I've ran into some "good old boys" networks where if you don't wear knots, you are considered to not know anything. Similar to those folks who think if you don't wear beads, you don't know squat.

 

IMHO, wear what you are comfortable with. Except those in Sea Scouting, then we can only wear up to six. ;)

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