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tmonahan

BS Leaders wearing Cub Scout Leader Knots

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What are the guidelines for former CS Leaders wearing their CS leader knots on their uniforms once they become BS leaders? They are keeping the same uniform and just change unit numerals and shoulder loops.

 

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Knots earned or awarded may be worn on any uniform.

 

As long as the person is changing the position patch too, using the same uniform is perfectly fine.

 

Personally, I will only wear the knots for my youth awards and the ones for the branch of scouting that I am involved in.

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Leader Recognition is just that recognition. As long as a person is actively registered in BSA they can wear the awards for the positions for which they have been recognized.

LongHaul

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OK, here's a follow up question.

Example:

For a scouter who is both registerd in a Pack(Den Leader) and a Troop(ASM) at the same time.

Was just awarded his Cub Scout Den Leader award knot.

Can he now wear that on both uniforms?

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Yes, and if some day later he goes on to a Venturing Crew, he can wear it on his green venturing uniform.

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Yes, wear them all with pride. Sets a good example of involvement in the program, and gives the boys something to look up to, in my opinion.

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Knots are knots regardless of your present duties.

 

I have Cubbing, Webelos, Scout knots on my Venturing shirt. I have trained on my shirt also because I am trained in all levels besides, otherwise I would have to have a second shirt to show I wasn't trained in the level of the program I was currently working in.

 

I do however, find it a lot easier to have a different shirt for each responsibility/training level I work at. The knots on all the shirts though are the same.

 

Stosh

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You earn them, wear them.

Personal taste will dictate how many rows to wear. I've seen some guys with 7 or 8 rows, IMO, it looks little silly, legal, but silly.

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7 or 8 rows???

 

Yea, I've seen those and they look like "cheap generals". I know it's legal, but I think a limit of 3 to 6 knots is enough. If you earn more than 6, only put the ones on your uniform that are the most important to you. Put the others in a memory book or on your other uniform shirt.

 

I agree with the others, if you earn a knot it goes on any uniform.

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WHy wouldn't they wear them? Why wouldn't you encourage them to wear them?

 

Think of it this way: First, cub scouts and boy scouts are just two parts of the SAME program. There should be more, not fewer, ties between them. If you have leaders at one level who understand the other level really well (because they were or still are active leaders there) then that will strengthen your own program and especially your ability to recruit and retain new scouts.

 

Second, these are volunteers! Celebrate the fact that they care enough about the program and the boys to do all the things necessary to earn those knots, rather than perhaps looking down on them discouraging them from wearing the knots. The official policy is that they can wear them, so encourage that.

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I was a Webelos den leader for two years. My dear friend the Cubmaster (now our DE) 'talked' me into it since she was short on leaders. I was a deb chief thirty years ago and had had no real Cub Scouting experience since then. It was a rewarding experience- six of the eight Webelos crossed over to the troop and two mad it to Eagle. I proudly wear that yellow knot on my tan shirt and my green shirt. If someone thinks to question my expertise in the Cub Scouting program, that knot is there. I have Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, Venturing and commissioner knots on my shirt and I use them to show that these are all part of one big Scouting program.

 

Ed

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Why wouldn't they wear them?

 

[Fumble fumble trip oops rustle rustle ahhhh]

 

Yes, here it is.

 

"Members wear only the insignia that show their present status in the movement. Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. Previously earned badges and insignia - not representing present status - make a fine display on a BSA red patch vest, a trophy hide or blanket, exhibited in the home of the recipient, or at functions where such a display is invited." (Insignia Guide p. 4., special regulations - Excess Insignia)

 

Yah, dat's the book reason, eh? ;)

 

All kinds of practical reasons for the rule, most especially what Jeff H says. Looks too military to most ordinary folk (and often a bad version of military at that). It's just not the image the BSA wants us to project to the community.

 

I always encourage scouters to keep the uniform simple, and wear only those knots or medals that mean something special to them, and/or reflect their current role. So a troop leader wearing cubbing knots, or a Venturing Scouter wearing boy scouting knots just doesn't seem appropriate.

 

I succeed with some and knot with others ;). Different strokes, and some are more into "personal statements" or wearin' lots of finery. Me I always thought that understatement serves as a better display of character.

 

So tmonahan, go with what your troop's style seems to be - lots of knots or few, or go with the BSA and keep the uniform simple and relevant to your current position, or keep 'em on if they're important to you or yeh don't want to do any more sewing, eh?

 

But regardless, spend some time aimin' to earn some of them Boy Scout awards.

 

Beavah

 

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I think that 'guidance' was not meant to apply to knots, which in another part of the IG clearly shows that multiple rows of knots are appropriate. It is meant to apply to things like QU awards, which I have seen lined up all the way down the sleeve. Only the QU award for the current year is meant to be worn. I have seen a Scouter in our district who wears not only the Eagle rank badge on the pocket, but also the medals for Eagle, Religious Award and Scouters training award...ALL the time. That's clearly ridiculous, but I don't feel I have the right to tell him my thoughts ... no more so than I would go up to someone at work and tell them that I feel their choice of clothing looked ridiculous (much as I would like to)...

 

Another example are those scouts and scouters who continue to wear their Jambo CSP and unit numbers long after the event is over, not to mention multiple Jambo patches above the right pocket.

 

We also have a council scouter who likes to wear the dark green Venturing shirt, along with 4 rows of those special knots with the dark green background (not official). He was in a Crew as a youth, but now is registered with a troop and holds a Council committee position.

 

When I am attending a troop or OA event, I wear my red loops. When I am representing the District on an EBOR, I wear silver loops.

 

That's what is meant by "current status", IMHO.

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Beavah,

Using a little selective editing, eh?

Here is the full paragraph from the Insignia Guide.

 

"With the exception of the Cub Scout badges of rank and Arrow Points, members wear only the insignia that show their present status in the movement. Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. Previously earned badges and insignia - not representing present status - make a fine display on a BSA red patch vest, a trophy hide or blanket, exhibited in the home of the recipient, or at functions where such a display is invited. Members may wear only temporary patches (no badges of rank) on the back of the merit badge sash. Members may wear only one merit badge sash at a time. A merit badge sash is never worn on a belt."

 

Now, maybe it is just me, but all those sentences appear to be addressing Scout uniforms, not Scouters. If your interpretation was correct, why would the AOL knot even be offered? It certainly would not represent anyone's present status in the movement.

 

Under Medals and Embroidered Knots, there is no restriction listed. The only sentence addressing the order states, "The order of wearing of medals and knots is at the discretion of the wearer."

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"WHy wouldn't they wear them? Why wouldn't you encourage them to wear them?"

 

I would not encourage them to wear so many because I think the Scout uniform looks best with a minimum of badges and decoration. However, we can't stop adults from wearing 7 or 8 rows of knots if that makes them feel important in the Scouting program. As I stated earlier, 3 to 6 knots is a good number. Wear the knots that have the most importance and put the others away in your scouting scrap book.

 

As Gonzo stated, it's a matter of taste.

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