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I remember with humor singing for a lost hat in front of a large pack at a campfire (as an adult).

 

However, Hazing is no longer allowed in any form by BSA. No exceptions.

 

So, what is considered humiliating? Clearly, many in this thread think the activity to reclaim items by singing for it can be humiliating and it amuses others. It is, therefore, hazing. It only needs to be humiliating to one scout to fit the definition.

 

We have discussed this before. When the program says something clearly like, No Hazing, do not deceive yourself into thinking you are following the program of Scouting when you are not. If you allow this activity, then you are allowing hazing. Some seem to be proud that they continue hazing scouts for the scout's "benefit" and to spite BSA.

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"It only needs to be humiliating to one scout to fit the definition."

 

So if one Scout finds it humiliating to be brought up in front of his peers to recieve his advancement recognition that is hazing and should be discontinued?

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Hi FOG,

 

Even the shyest boy knows the difference between being praised for an accomplishment, versus being punished by having to sing a baby song in front of everyone to get an object back.

 

The latter being something that scouting has never been about.

 

Scouting is not about what a boy CAN'T, or SHOULDN'T do, but about what he CAN, or SHOULD do, and finding positive ways to reach a boy's goals.

 

There are no negatives in the literature presented to the boys. Scouting isn't about, "You CAN'T. or SHOULDN'T leave your things laying around." It's about, "Here's why you SHOULD take care of your things, and let's find a way that you CAN do it."

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Of course, Silly. Where have you been? Everyone knows its a given fact that in Scouting, recognition for advancement is the epitome of harassment and ridicule, very humiliating, and is without question the worst kind of hazing. You could be arrested for engaging in advancement recognition.

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Hi FOG,

 

I'll be more to the point.

 

"So if one Scout finds it humiliating to be brought up in front of his peers to recieve his advancement recognition that is hazing and should be discontinued?"

 

No.

 

I believe intent is a the key word missing, along with the rest of boteta's missing paragraph, in your hypothetical question.

 

Hazing is something that is done with the INTENT of purposefully injuring an individual, be it physically or emotionally.

 

This is not the intent of the Advancement Method within scouting.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)

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"Hazing is something that is done with the INTENT of purposefully injuring an individual, be it physically or emotionally."

 

Since the intent of neither a snipe hunt nor singing for your lost goods is to injure anyone, it cannot be hazing.

 

On the other hand, boxing is hazing which explains why it is not permitted.

 

Cheerleading at football games must also be considered hazing as we intend to demoralize the opponents by saying, "Our team is better than your team."

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From dictionary.com

 

Hazing

 

"1. To harass by exacting unnecessary, disagreeable, or difficult work.

 

2. To harass or annoy by playing abusive or shameful tricks upon; to humiliate by practical jokes; -- used esp. of college students; as, the sophomores hazed a freshman."

 

"unnecessary", "abusive", and "humiliate" seem to be the key words in this definition, but this ultimately leads to an emotional injury in many people's minds.

 

Snipe Hunt = Hazing

 

Singing for lost articles = Hazing

 

Boxing = Not Hazing, unless you forced them to do it.

 

Chearleaders = ...now all I can think about is cheerleaders

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Ummm....A snipe is a bird so snipe hunting can't be hazing! Singing is not work therefore not hazing! Although some people should be paid NOT to sing!

 

Korea brings up a good point. When I was the SM, if an item was not left overnight or for an extended period of time, it didn't need to be sung for. The Scouts would bring these to me but they were returned on the spot.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Good morning FOG,

 

What you call, "changing the definition", I call further clarifying the definition as you drag it off on a tangent.

 

The bottom line in my posts has been that there are more positive ways of handling this situation.

 

Unfortunately, most adults do not know how to do this, because they were brought up in this type of negative-reinforcement environment, and are just continuing what they already know.

 

Negativity breeds negativity.

 

A positive-reinforcement approach will breed positive results.

 

The BSA knows this, and has been practicing this for many years.

 

It is unfortunate that they had to clarify this with their No Hazing Policy.

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Why do people think this is a negative thing? For starters, this can help a Scout overcome the fear of getting up in front of a crowd. It also tells the Scout there are consequences for his forgetfulness. It also teaches responsibility and maybe a new song! It is not meant to be negative!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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