Legal CSP's

[Old-Goat 10]

I have heard that it is improper to wear a CSP that is not made by National. I know there are a few other company's out there that make CSP's and they all look good but they don't have the National printing on the back side. Can anyone help me out on what is legal or does it really make any difference.

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

If that is what your council is selling then it is perfectly legal providing it has the required elements on it.

[nldscout 18]

Council's can buy CSP's anywhere they choose. They would have to be nuts to buy from national anyway, too over priced.

[FScouter 24]

How much does national charge for CSPs? How much do the other guys charge?

[Bob White 20]

Just like any embroiderer, national supply's prices are dependent on stitch count and quantity ordered. To ask how much a patch costs is like asking how much a car costs. Which car? Which patch?

[Sturgen 10]

Novel thought bob, how much do two equivalent patches cost on average, same thread count same colors, same quantity, etc. Just on average, come on, you can do it.

[FScouter 24]

"They would have to be nuts to buy from national anyway, too over priced."

nldscout - Apples to apples, how over-priced are CSPs purchased from national?

[scoutldr 732]

My council just issued a new CSP. It has nothing on the back. Retail is 5 bucks. I have no idea what their source is, or what the cost is to the council.

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

I want a multi-colored car that has a high stitch count that runs great with low gas consumption and is durable. It needs to make me look prosperous and is very cheap.

 

I'll not be too concerned with its' origination.

 

FB

 

[Bob White 20]

Sturgen,

 

Yes, as a matter of fact I could get you a price, if given the proper information. Thread count is not a consideration, stitch count is what matters. The number of colors is only of concern to patch collectors, why, I do not know because it has not effect on cost. A 10,000 stitch patch in on color costs the same as a 10,000 stitch patch in 20 colors. Thread type can also effect cost. metallics and light sensitive threads can cost more depending on the vendor. Quantity is the second largest consideration. Are you buying 200 or 100,000 or somewhere in between? Different manufacturers fix their price columns at different quantities. Shape is also a consideration, stock shapes cost less than laser edging.

 

Provide details and I can get you an expected retail price.

 

 

[Proud Eagle 13]

Bob, you are correct for the most part, but patch companies, like everyone else, sometimes use different systems from company to company.

 

I know that some companies do charge based on number of colors. Most companies I know of allow approx. seven colors in the base price, then extra for more. I do know of companies that have no color limit, and other that charge per color, starting with one. This may be a rip off, but that is what some do. The type of edging or border on the patch is another major issue. There are several types of edging that can cost extra, and cut edge borders are also usually more expensive. (I have never seen a cut edge CSP, but many event and some Lodge flaps are done this way). Unusual shapes can also add to the cost, but this is rare. You are correct that stitch count and quantity are the major factors. Stitch count is almost always based on surface area. There are some odd cases where there is significant deveation from this, but that is the norm. Also, some patch companies have variations in the density of the embroidery (meaning you can have smaller stitches, and therefore more stiches and greater design detail). Patches made in foreign countries are usually much cheaper. I have heard stories of patches being both designed and produced at such a low cost that the shipping charges were as much as the patch costs.

 

I don't know if it holds for CSPs, but Lodge flaps are required to have certain elements in them. I seem to recall a fleur de lis is one requirement.

 

The only restriction on wearing CSPs that I have heard of relates to temporary CSPs such as Jamborree CSPs. (JSP ?) I seem to recall those may only be worn for one year. (six months before and six months after)

 

 

[Bob White 20]

I deal with embroiderers on an almost daily basis in my profession. I agree that not all vendors are the same and some do price differently. if any of my suppliers charged by the color I would drop them immediately. Other than that I think you will find the information I shared to be accurate when dealing with most embroidery companies including BSA national supply.

[RustyWaters 10]

How is it that some Troop's don't use the CSP on their uniform?

I know of a troop in my district that still uses only town name red and whites. (no council patch)

Are there other troops out there like this?

[Fat Old Guy 11]

sctldr commented, "My council just issued a new CSP. It has nothing on the back. Retail is 5 bucks. I have no idea what their source is, or what the cost is to the council."

 

That might be a limited edition, commemorative CSP.

 

RustyWaters asked, "How is it that some Troop's don't use the CSP on their uniform? I know of a troop in my district that still uses only town name red and whites. (no council patch) Are there other troops out there like this?"

 

Some troops have opted to stick with the R&W community strips because they are an old troop. It is my understanding that the Scout Exec needs to approve these. Unfortunately, I've never seen a replica community strip that looks as nice as an original BSA. Usually, the red isn't quite right.

 

FWIW, I think that we gave up alot when we lost the community strips. In a council the size of mine, it is nice to be able to look at a shoulder and tell where someone is from.

 

 

[scoutldr 732]

Nope, not a commemorative, just the latest in a series. The council has issued 5 design changes in the CSP since the R/W strips went out in the 70's. In this latest change, the design remained the same, just a new color scheme. An improvement, in my opinion. We also have commemoratives over the years, such as for 9/11, Camp fundraising, "Silver Beaver Association", etc. We've never had an Eagle CSP, but I'm working on that.