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When to wear uniform

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4 hours ago, WRW_57 said:

There is no "trained" patch just "paper trained."

 

trained+(1).jpg

Edited by EmberMike

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He is wearing this spoof patch on his uniform, not the proper one posted by EmberMike. Sorry for the confusion

 

s-l500.jpg

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12 minutes ago, WRW_57 said:

He is wearing this spoof patch on his uniform, not the proper one posted by EmberMike. Sorry for the confusion

 

s-l500.jpg

Is he really wearing that?

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Since this thread has been resurrected...  :)

 

This summer our district is holding Twilight Camp.  (day camp at 5:30 - 9:00 pm).  Its individual sign-up, we aren't doing it as a pack.  I have a Tiger, it will be after May 31 so he will be a Wolf by then.  My question is... If I am not staffing should I wear my uniform to that function or just go as a parent.

 

Also, I have finally gotten real BSA green pants with the official belt, haven't bought the socks yet.  I was quite (not sure what word to put here)... the other TIger DL showed up in jeans this afternoon which I was wearing as well up until last week.  What really bothered me is the knees of his jeans were torn out.  Really tacky looking.

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WRW 57, is this person currently registered with the pack in any position?  Or currently registered with any other unit? Or with any other level of the BSA?

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I always try to use friendly questions to encourage the person to reflect a little on what they are doing and representing in these kind of situations. A sample of a conversation I had recently:

Me: "Hey Mr. Wilikers, (name has been changed) I didn't know you were registered as a new Scout leader!"

Him: "Oh I'm not actually yet."

Me: "But you have a new uniform on! Aren't you only supposed to wear the uniform if you are officially registered with the BSA?" (asked sincerely, and with a big smile)

Him: "Oh, I just thought it would be fun to wear one I guess."

Me: "Is that why you have all those goofy patches in the wrong places? The boys in my den were confused about them, and I didn't know what to tell them. How would you explain them to my boys? I gotta tell them something." (sincerely inquisitive and slightly concerned face)

Him: "Well ....." (insert lame excuse here)

Funny enough, while it seems trite, a conversation like this never actually accuses him of anything, and technically, I am never actually telling him he is doing something wrong. But the questions allow him to consider both his actions and the ramifications of the example he is setting, all while avoiding any actual criticisms. This line of conversation always works for me; give it a try and see if you have any more success!

Edited by The Latin Scot
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I believe he is registered as a committee member, and would like to be an ACM.  He's not wearing an adult position insignia, he just kinda looks like an adult in uniform.

I found his spoof knot ...more of a social statement item,  an "inclusive scouting knot."

I will ask him how all this silliness strengthens his application to be an ACM.  Thanks for your help, everyone.

 

inclussion knot.jpg

Edited by WRW_57

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My instinct is to put someone with that much enthusiasm to work in the pack.  However, I worry that he's more into being a Scouter than he is in being a pack volunteer.

I'm worried that he's going to bring unneeded drama to your team that may not be needed.  The "Paper Trained" patch bugs me.  I've got several adults in our troop that refuse to get trained, think they know it all, but really don't.  I hear the same kinds of comments from them - the BSA doesn't know anything, the council guys are stooges, etc.  It's not that they're bad people.  In fact, they're generally great people.  It's just that they're a little too cavalier with the program as a result. I'd welcome a bit more humility.

That said - I think I'd still try to build bridges to the fellow and find out how to get him engaged.  I think I'd talk to him about what he'd like to do in the Pack and see if you can find a fit.  I wouldn't sweat the title - Committee Member, ACM, whatever.  Figure out if it's possible to bring him into the team and leverage some of that enthusiasm.

 

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23 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Since this thread has been resurrected...  :)

 

This summer our district is holding Twilight Camp.  (day camp at 5:30 - 9:00 pm).  Its individual sign-up, we aren't doing it as a pack.  I have a Tiger, it will be after May 31 so he will be a Wolf by then.  My question is... If I am not staffing should I wear my uniform to that function or just go as a parent.

 

Also, I have finally gotten real BSA green pants with the official belt, haven't bought the socks yet.  I was quite (not sure what word to put here)... the other TIger DL showed up in jeans this afternoon which I was wearing as well up until last week.  What really bothered me is the knees of his jeans were torn out.  Really tacky looking.

Yes - I'd wear the uniform.  This is a district event.  You and your son are members of the BSA.  It is wholly appropriate for both of you to attend in uniform.

More importantly.  You're there with your son.  Seeing you there in uniform is a great example to him.  Go for it!

BTW - nice call getting the official pants.  I'm a believer that wearing the uniform correctly is a good example for the boys.  We all get to the full uniform at our own pace, but when you can acquire all the parts, I think it's the best example for the boys.  

 

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10 hours ago, WRW_57 said:

I believe he is registered as a committee member, and would like to be an ACM.  He's not wearing an adult position insignia, he just kinda looks like an adult in uniform.

I found his spoof knot ...more of a social statement item,  an "inclusive scouting knot."

I will ask him how all this silliness strengthens his application to be an ACM.  Thanks for your help, everyone.

inclussion knot.jpg

 

That knot was worn more during the debate over gay scouts and scouters, and the membership policies in place previously that kept them out of scouting. It was a show of support for them and for the goal of changing those policies. 

Since those policies changed, half of the knot really isn't applicable as an issue now. The other half (religion) isn't going to change any time soon, if ever. Plus I was always confused about the symbolism of the silver and purple in this knot. The BSA uses those colors to symbolize religious insignia or awards. In the context of inclusiveness, we're already inclusive when it comes to religion. It's the lack of religion as a disqualifier for BSA membership that I think is the social statement being addressed in this knot, so the symbolism kind of doesn't make sense. 

Full disclosure, I own one of these knots. I never wore it because while I support inclusive scouting, I don't regard my purchase of this knot as an "award" like the organization behind it claims it is, so it's not suitable for wear alongside actual awards. Nor do I think that my belief in inclusive scouting is worthy of any award.

All of that said, I do find it questionable that this guy wears this and other spoof insignia. It's at least worth a conversation with him over it, if only to get his opinion on uniform guidelines and why he thinks it is ok to wear multiple pieces of unofficial insignia. And if that's a policy that he'd extend to the pack if he were ACM and just let the kids put whatever they want on their uniforms. 

I'm not a fan of the "Paper Trained" badge, personally. I take training fairly seriously, especially as it includes YPT, and I'm not a fan of mocking it. 

What's his motivation in wearing this stuff? Do parents comment on it and get a chuckle out of the funny badges? What's the point of it all? 

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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 3:41 PM, WRW_57 said:

 Am I correct in saying he cannot wear the uniform to activities since he is not a "trained" adult leader in the unit?

 

He is a committee member and paid his $33.00 to serve your unit.  Have you guided him down the path of training?  As much as well all need more help, don't let someone that is eager to hit the ground running slip through your fingers

 

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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 4:03 PM, Thunderbird said:

he shouldn't be wearing a badge of office patch or the "trained" patch. 

Let not assume the scout store didn't UP SELL this gentleman and told him he needed that patch.  Its happened in front of my eyes.

"Have you taken some training"  this could be YPT, oh then here is a TRAINED PATCH

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The fact is that some people are just wise-guys, although that's not normally the term I would use.  I have seen this extend to uniforming.  There was a Scoutmaster of a nearby troop who I always saw wearing his cloth Eagle patch on his uniform.  (Not the knot, the oval patch.) This guy was in his 40's or 50's.  I am sure he knew he was not supposed to be wearing that patch.  He looked and sounded to me like the kind of guy who was wearing the patch just so, if someone questioned him about it, he could argue with them and/or tell them to mind their own business.  Hopefully that is not what you have here.

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Speaking of wise-guys, I hate it when some adults are wearing the "Old Goat" or "Rocking chair" patrol patch. Adult patrols? Please, that's called being an ASM or Committee Member.

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