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yarrow

A real Flag??

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Question........I have seen some scouts use their sleeve as a flag when a flag is not present for pledging. The flag on the uniform is frequently missing a stripe and always has an incorrect number of stars. It seems to be representive of a flag but I would not say that it could be used for presentation, or pledge and I do not have a fit the "the flag is on the floor" when my son drops his uniform. He gets yelled at for not picking up, but it has nothing to do with the flag. Thoughts?

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First of all, I'm glad the boys are showing respect to the flag by saluting it and saying the pledge.

 

If it doesn't represent our flag, why wear it? The "Insignia Control Guide" calls it the "U.S. Flag emblem". I just looked at my uniform shirt on my military uniform that had it and the Scout uniform, taking into account the border was sewn after the flag, I can still make out all the stripes and stars.

 

I'm glad your Scouts were ingenious enough to think of it when a staffed flag wasn't available.

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It was either Confucious or perhaps Julia Roberts who said it best..."it's the thought that counts." The Flag represents our country, and the patch repesents our Flag. The fact that the embroiderer is unable to accomodate all the features within the small patch does not alter or lessen what it stands for. No disrespect is meant when using it as a focal point for saying the pledge and so I see nothing wrong with it. If someone is uncomfortable doing that then they shouldn't do it.

 

Bob White

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I've got to admit that I've done it. In a pinch, we improvise. I once had a Morman District Commissioner. We prayed and pledged at the beginning of the meeting and prayed at the end. Most of the time we ended up saluting someone's flag on their shoulder. I had to remind myself that we were saluting the flag and not the guy under it, but we were trying to be respectful of the flag.

 

DS

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At a compout last year the SPL and the rest of the boys did not want to pull out the troop and U.S. Flag out of the trailer and set them up. It was their decision (although I did not agree with it) so the adults let it stand. When it came time for the pledge we all faced east which I believe is the proper protocol when no flag is present. I prefer this method as opposed to using the flag emblem on our shoulder. Comments?

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The flag patch on our shirts may not be a "real" flag, but it is a represintation of it. When saluting the flag during the national anthem, and no flag is visible, we salute the direction the anthem is coming from. This is not the flag, but a represintation.

 

Yarrow, please find other things to occupy your time with than attacking the flag, or represintations of any symbol of this great country of ours.

 

 

Tim Dyer

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I have to agree with overtrained. My den meets in the same location as my troop. We were used to using the Troop colors for the opening and pledge. My scoutmaster had removed them for storage because we are selling the church building (and building another), so we had no flag to salute. I asked the boys what to do, and they decided to stand in a circle, saluting the flag on each other's shirt. Then had no thought that they were saluting each other, only trying to show respect to the flag.

 

In a similar note, and one that probably only those with military experience will understand. I was out on a training course, and heard the call "Retreat". It was faint, and not everyone in the area could hear it. However, when those around me saw me standing at attention and saluting, they did the same, facing the direction of the music. I did not know exactly where the flag was, just that it was time to show the proper respect.

 

Paul Johnson

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Tim,

Take a deep breath. I saw nothing at all in yarrow question beyond just a honest question. He did not show any disrespect to the flag at all.

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When no "Real Flag" was to be found, I have used the moon.

Telling the Scouts, that there is still a Flag up there, left by an Eagle Scout. Neil Armstrong.

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Tiny1pj,

 

An interesting note on the use of the word "retreat". Our CubMaster has taught our boys to say "advance" whether they are marching to the pole or away from the pole. Seems that he was aware of some old veterans who take exception to the term "retreat" and will quite strongly tell you that the American flag NEVER retreats. Funny, I've noticed a lot of other pack and troop color guards using advance instead of retreat also.

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"Retreat" is a bugle call, not a command. Color guards advance to post the colors and at the end of the day they advance to retire the colors.

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Eamonn... WOW! That's GREAT! I'm going to remember that. What a wonderful way of handling a "no flag" situation. I can't wait to spring this on our troop sometime.

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