Red Wool Jacket

[Eamonn 61]

I think that I might be willing to pay money to see dsteele perform that one !!

How much do you need for that FOS goal ??

I have for some weeks being "Pushing" The Full Family Of Scouting. We had a board meeting that ended on time !! So I looked in on one of these new Venture Crews.

It was outstanding, really GREAT.

They were discussing what their uniform was going to be.

One Lad was all for a tie-dye T-shirt, they wanted details of what the "Real Uniform" was.

The debate went on, till at last they all decided that they would go with a Green T-shirt, and screen print it at the next meeting.

I don't watch that much TV, but there was a show some years back, I think it was the "A Team" The leader would always say before the big shoot out near the end "I love it when a plan comes together."

Of course the hard part for me was to sit back and say and do nothing.

Maybe these Guys, (They also set one of their own to make fliers to recruit some gals) will come up with a tie-dye jacket.

Then our Assistant Scout Exec. can make that noise backwards.

Oh my life is good.

[Eamonn 61]

I think that I might be willing to pay money to see dsteele perform that one !!

How much do you need for that FOS goal ??

I have for some weeks being "Pushing" The Full Family Of Scouting. We had a board meeting that ended on time !! So I looked in on one of these new Venture Crews.

It was outstanding, really GREAT.

They were discussing what their uniform was going to be.

One Lad was all for a tie-dye T-shirt, they wanted details of what the "Real Uniform" was.

The debate went on, till at last they all decided that they would go with a Green T-shirt, and screen print it at the next meeting.

I don't watch that much TV, but there was a show some years back, I think it was the "A Team" The leader would always say before the big shoot out near the end "I love it when a plan comes together."

Of course the hard part for me was to sit back and say and do nothing.

Maybe these Guys, (They also set one of their own to make fliers to recruit some gals) will come up with a tie-dye jacket.

Then our Assistant Scout Exec. can make that noise backwards.

Oh my life is good.

[Bob White 20]

Scoutldr,

Since you're gaining interest in the heritage of the program you might be interested in the frame of reference during which BP wrote about the SM not wearing other decorations. At the time there not many recognitions through the scouting organization to motivate leaders or recognize them for their contributions to the program so it was commonplace for leaders to wear their military recognitions on their scout leader's uniform. BP himself did this. It began to get out of control and that is what caused BP to suggest that leaders only where scout emblems on their uniforms.

 

If you look at the the photos and film footage of BP you will see that he did not wear a blank uniform as his writing might suggest. His uniform reflected his activities and accomplishments during his lifetime. His concern was not over wearing a proper uniform, but was a reaction to random acts of uniforming that was going on at the time.

 

Hope this helps to put things in perspective.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy 11]

I have some Scout Handbooks from countries that were once part of the British Empire and one thing that I noticed are the comments that the only recognition that adults should wear are their Wood Badge beads.

 

This makes sense because the Brits downplay awards. We give our soldiers medals for joining, staying clean, being there, etc.. The Brits only seem to give medals for spectacular actions. I remember reading that our propensity for meaningless medals caused some consternation among the Brits during WW II. Our guys showed up with a chest full of ribbons to impress the girls and their guys who had already been involved in the shooting had nothing.

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

Hey Mr. FOG (I was having a hard time with that name.)

BEWARE OF BRITS.

BE VERY AWARE OF BRITS IN RED WOOL JACKETS.

dem dare brits git everywhere.

The Real Reason why the coats were Red ?

To hide the ketchup spills or was it Hot Sauce.

[dsteele 20]

Eamonn?!

 

Getting spicy?

 

 

DS

[Bob White 20]

http://www.pinetreeweb.com/B-P.htm

 

So much for brits only wearing the Wood Badge beads.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy 11]

That was then, this is now.

[andyz 10]

Can someone tell me the exact positioning of the Philmont Bull on a red jacket? I've heard it be said that it goes on the left shoulder with the tail over the seam if one has crossed the Tooth of Time. How much of the tail? Does it matter?

[dsteele 20]

According to BSA policies, where the Bull goes and where the tail goes, it really doesn't matter.

 

However, what you have to deal with is what the volunteers in your council and others dish out. In other words, tradition has it that the tail (how much of it isn't defined) goes over the shoulder if you've climbed the tooth. None of the tail goes over the shoulder if you haven't climbed the tooth.

 

That's the tooth and nail of it.

 

DS

[FScouter 24]

The Insignia Guide says The Philmont bull emblem is especially designed for the red wool jac-shirt to be sewn on the left side above the pocket. It also says that the bull may be worn on the red nylon jacket.

 

The Tooth of Time Traders catalog has a story about the Philmont black felt bull. This Philmont icon originated in 1944 by past Chief Scout Executive E.K. Fretwell. He wanted an outdoor shirt for Philmont with an emblem on it. He asked the General Manager of Philmont to trace a tile of a bull located at the automobile entrance on the north side of Villa Philmonte. The concept was to have the bull separated into three sections: head, body and tail. The theory was to earn each part of the bull after each year of participation at Philmont. This developed into the one piece felt bull shown here. The bull is worn on the left shoulder with the tail extending over the shoulder seam. Contrary to a popular myth, you do not need to hike the Tooth of Time or any other trail at Philmont to wear the bull or to wear the tail over the shoulder.

 

[cheffy 10]

Early on in this thread there wwas discussion on if the jacket was offical or not. Here's my question...If someone was at the Woolrich outlet and there was the red wool jacket on the rack, same style etc, without the offical BSA tag. The price was down to $39.00. Would you feel bad about wearing it with your uniform? Remember you just saved about $60 and you would need to add a pocket patch.

[Bob White 20]

Interesting question Cheffy, however the Woolrich website shows no such similar coat. the closest is the black and red Heritage Cruiser for $220.

 

If I saw it at $39 my first thought would be that Woolrich ripped off a lot of people to the tune of $181.

 

FScouter,

You are very close on your info re: the Philmont Bull. However, nowhere in the BSA uniform literature are you instructed as to the placement of the bull's tail.

 

As a participant at Philmont, either the training center or trek-side you are eligible to wear the bull. Whether the tail is over or under the shoulder seam depends strictly on where you sew it and is not controlled in any way.

 

The story of the tail representing climbing the Tooth is more wive's tale than tradition according to the administration of Philmont and the BSA.

 

Bob White

[cheffy 10]

Bob white.

My theory is that since Woolrich makes the jackets anyway and since this was an outlet store that there was some slight defect that put it on the discount rack. Now all I need is the pocket patch.

[Bob White 20]

So Cheffy is it your theory then that what is the right or wrong to do is based not on principles but on lowest cost?

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)