rlutz 10 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 My Webelo patrol would like to wear the recently discontinued Webelo Badge instead of the new one that looks like a Boy Scout Rank. The new badge requires the removal of all previously earned ranks upsetting some of the boys and parents. Anyone know where I can get my hands on 5 of them? Link to post Share on other sites
ExperiencedUniforms 10 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hello rluz: I believe that LDS units do not use the new oval patch, so the WEBELOS Award diamond should be still available from national supply. If not, send me a private message, and I'll see if I can round some up for you. I would strongly suggest to you and your den that you make a bigger deal out of the new oval badge, especially if your boys are wearing the khaki-tan uniform. Convince them that the new badge is an honor, and that they are closer to Boy Scouting than Cub Scouting now. Tell them that the Cub Scouts don't get to wear oval rank badges, and that they should set the example for the pack as leaders. The other diamond patches can go on their red vests. If they are wearing the blue uniforms, they SHOULD NOT wear the oval WEBELOS award. Keep on Scoutin' ora Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 ExperiencedUniforms check you Insignia Guide, I think it says that only temporary activity patches are to be worn on the vest. I believe it specifically states that ranks ar not to be worn on the vest. Bob Link to post Share on other sites
ExperiencedUniforms 10 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hello Bob: Thank you for the correction. The catalog says that the vest is "not for use with badges of rank or office." I was looking for an alternative so the boys would have a place to display old awards. I was never aware that you could not display old rank awards on the vest. I guess the boys can sew them on a blanket. Keep on Scoutin' ora Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I thought the "old" diamond badge was still available. The brown uniform for Webelos is still only an "option" not a required uniform. If your local council doesn't have the diamond badges, then check with a neighboring council. Also, your Webelos are still a den, not a patrol (that's a whole nother thread) even if they have a den name and emblem. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparkie 12 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 rlutz wrote: "The new badge requires the removal of all previously earned ranks upsetting some of the boys and parents" Actually, the old badge is being phased out. The new badge DOES NOT require the removal of previous badges. Under the new Tiger program (i think starting last year) those boys will be getting the oval. Therefore, it will be a couple years before my first den actually receives the new oval badge. Our Webelos I just received the diamond, we are not handing them out just because they are available. But maybe your pack wants to do it differently . Sparkie Cubmaster Troop Com. Mem. Link to post Share on other sites
kassie428 10 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 The Mobile and Pensacola Council Shops have both the blue diamond and the oval Webelos badges. What my den did is we gave which ever badge the boy and their parent wanted. Some of the boys (my son included) switched to the tan uniform this year because they outgrew the blue uniform. Instead of sewing the diamond patches on the tan uniform I purchased the patch protector that hung from the button and put the Bobcat, Wolf and Bear in those and then hung it on the uniform that way when they received the tan badge we didn't have to remove the old badges, the boys who still had the blue uniforms were given the diamond badges. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 My understanding is that the blue diamond will be available for another two years, until the last boys to start under the old Tiger program age out of Webelos. Those boys should be Bears this year. Our pack still awards the diamond, since the majority of the junior Webelos are still in the blues. For these boys and older, everything I read in the Insignia Guide makes either the diamond or the oval optional, regardless of which uniform they wear (blue or tan). When a Webelos changes to the tan uniform, it is permissible for him to move his Bobcat, Wolf and Bear badges and add the blue Webelos diamond when he earns it. If he decides to wear the oval Webelos pach, the earlier diamond cannot be worn with it. That's the theory, but the problem is if a boy outgrows his blue uniform and goes to tan prior to earning his Webelos badge. Boys don't want to wear the tan uniform without any of the awards they've previously earned, and the parents aren't thrilled about moving all those patches for a relatively short period of time. Also, if you put the Bobcat/Wolf/Bear diamonds on the tan shirt, when the boy eventually goes to the oval, the diamonds are going to leave a mark on the shirt. In this case, I'm willing to allow the boys to use the plastic patch holders. I realize they aren't legal, but given the circumstances, I think a little lattitude is needed. Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 The funny thing is, when the boys cross over to Boy Scouts, a blank shirt is much more preferable to the one with Cub Scout "stuff" on it. Question: I'm aware of the Tiger diamond badge, oval and diamond Webelos (NOT WEBELO!!!) badge and the implications of both. However, what if a fourth grader joins Cub Scouts for the first time (in 2005 let's say so the diamond Webelos badge is now an outdated relic). He still needs to earn his Bobcat "badge." Will there still be a Bobcat badge? If so, where will it be worn. In the mid-60s when the boys could earn Wolf, Bear and Lion diamond shaped badges was not the Bobcat badge just a pin (similar to the parent's pin we issue now)? What was the fourth badge in the quad, was it Bobcat or did the Webelos program have a badge at this time? I can't remember myself. I think it was Wolf, Bear, Lion and Webelos? Anyone know for sure? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparkie 12 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Well, i can't answer your second question, i'm to young (for once ). In response to your first question, i would buy a new fourth grade scout the Oval Webelos badge. Mainly because he would never have a completed (larger) diamond. The Tiger diamond simply replaced the Webelos diamond in completing the larger diamond on the shirt. Therefore, i don't see the Bobcat disappearing anytime soon. Sparkie Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Sparkie, I think you missed my question. Yes, the Tiger diamond "replaced" the Webelos diamond, wrt to real estate on the shirt pocket. My question is, in the future when the Webelos diamond no longer exists and the youth in question begins the Cub Scout program as a fourth grader and the tan shirt is mandatory (trust me, it will be in the future). When he earns his Bobcat badge, should he sew it on only to remove it once his Webelos badge is earned?(This message has been edited by acco40) Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Acco40, I think you got it right. Sew it on and later remove it. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 My son is a 4th grader who just joined as a Webelos this past September. He wears the tan shirt. He got his Bobcat and we personally opted not to sew it on his shirt and waited until he earned his Webelos badge. Personally, I think you should go with the insignias that go with the blue shirt and the insignias that go with the tan shirt and not mix the two. It looks tacky to me. I was a Cub in the mid-60's and yes, the Bobcat rank was a pin that you wore on your uniform. There was no badge. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparkie 12 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 acco40, Sorry, wasn't thinking about the shirt issue (and i was not assuming the tan shirt would be mandatory). My sons kept their blue shirt until boy scouts (February of 5th grade). However, now i'm confused on why you would say a Bobcat badge would be removed "once his Webelos badge is earned?". Most boys in my pack earn their Bobcat by the next Pack Meeting, so he would (the fourth grader) be wearing it a good year and a half at minimum. Placement would still be on the pocket, why would the new program make this placement any different? Sorry if i'm REALLY missing something here. Sparkie Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Back in the 60s, and yes I am old enough to remember, there were 4 rank badges that combined to make one large diamond. They were Wolf, Bear, Lion, Webelos. Bobcat was a round pin about the size of a dime. If a Cub joined today in fourth grade he'd wear the Bobcat patch once he earned it, and it would remain on his shirt until he earned his Webelos badge. It's not a big deal really because he will soon be in Boy Scouts were he will only wear one rank at at time as well. Besides unless he joins in first grade he will never have the entire diamond, and whatever he has will be removed upon reaching the Webelos badge. BW Link to post Share on other sites
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