BDU and Uniforms

[teacupin 10]

I have read that there is something about mixing military BDU pants with the scout uniform or any other piece of military clothing. We have a problem within my troop and as I see with other troops that with wear BDU pants with the scout shirt because they don't have regular scout pants. Where can I find information on this.

[Bob White 20]

What you are refering to is a clause in the Congrssional Charter for the BSA. In it congress has said that the Scout Uniform may not imitate a military uniform.

 

It is really pretty irrelevant though. The BSA owns the rights to the images of scouting. The rules of the BSA says that that no individual or unit may alter the Scout uniform. So it is not about everyone wearing BDUs, it would be just as wrong if everyone was told to wear jeans or red soccer shorts. Units do not have the authority to change the scouting uniform. If a boy does not have a full uniform that is one thing. But for a unit to uset local uniforming guidelines is improper.

 

Bob White

 

Bob White

[KoreaScouter 13]

Mike Walton has done a lot of research on this subject, and it appears in many threads, both here and in the US Scouting Service Project site. In fact, there are hyperlinks in some of the strings...

 

In addition to Bob White's admonition, there are practical reasons for Scouts not to wear military uniform items. For one thing, they can introduce or encourage a militaristic overtone. Although BSA's roots are with the British Army and we are a uniformed movement, my impression is that we try very hard through policy and practice to not appear as a military auxiliary.

 

Also, and I'll admit this is more of a concern for me as a Scoutmaster in Korea, I do not want my Boy Scouts on a back-country hike to be mistaken for military combatants...by anyone. I have a firm "no BDU" policy...

 

KS

[Zorn Packte 10]

"In addition to Bob White's admonition, there are practical reasons for Scouts not to wear military uniform items. For one thing, they can introduce or encourage a militaristic overtone. Although BSA's roots are with the British Army and we are a uniformed movement, my impression is that we try very hard through policy and practice to not appear as a military auxiliary."

 

I think that is a new philosophy in BSA and Scouting in general. I still recall the days when Scouts did close order drill and actually MARCHED in parades instead of shuffling along like zombies. The original BSA uniform was a knock-off of the Army's uniform and according to the article in a recent magazine, during WW I steps were taken to prevent Boy Scouts from being mistaken for soldiers by putting a Scout badge on their hats.

 

If you are going to wear BDU pants get green ones. BDU pants make more sense than baggy jeans and are practical although I don't care for them (I don't like the double seat).

 

Mr. White likes to quote scripture about uniforms but the reality of the situation is that many parents just don't want to lay out $40 for pants and another $40 for shorts so jeans are permitted. If it is a choice between blue jeans and green BDUs, go with the green.

 

The admonition agains wearing a uniform that imitates a military uniform seems pretty weak if you look at the Sea Scout uniform. Although, technically, it isn't imitating a military uniform, it is imitating a naval uniform.

 

[acco40 95]

"Although, technically, it isn't imitating a military uniform, it is imitating a naval uniform."

 

You are sure to receive some flack with the above. Are you trying to voice an opinion that the Navy is not a branch of the U.S. military? You might have stirred up a hornets nest with that one!

 

There are also laws about wearing military uniforms by civilians. Fairly obtuse with respect to BSA uniform policy but somewhat germain.

 

Check out Mike Walton's story about the adult who was not allowed to a Scouting event (regional jamboree??) due to his behavior #1, but it all started out because of his refusal to replace his "camo" pants.

[Zorn Packte 10]

You are sure to receive some flack with the above. Are you trying to voice an opinion that the Navy is not a branch of the U.S. military?

 

It really isn't. Historically "military" refers to land forces. American are lazy speakers and change historic meanings of words on a regular basis.

 

We have military, naval and now "air" forces. The military is the army. Naval forces are the navy and marines. Guess what are the air forces are.

 

The Coast Guard is an "armed force," of a different category but for the most part follows a naval tradition.

 

Americans, being lazy, have made "military" mean everything that is involved in war fighting.(This message has been edited by Zorn Packte)

[sctmom 11]

"but the reality of the situation is that many parents just don't want to lay out $40 for pants and another $40 for shorts so jeans are permitted. "

 

And how much to blue jeans cost where you live? The brand names cost $40.00 or more. Also, with the wonderful world of EBAY, you can get seldom worn scout pants at half the original cost. I also want to know how many of those parents who don't want to lay out the $40 have their kids in sports where 40.00 is on the beginning.

 

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

I think I sounded off in another forum concerning BDU's. While I don't advocate the use of BDU's for Scouts, my wish was for the BSA to use the same type of ripstop heavyduty material of BDU's for their uniform and to redesign the pants to a more useful and practical design. It would be nice if they were made with zip off legs to wear as either pants or shorts. The current shorts just suck plain and simple. This has nothing to do with looking like the military, just using the same types of rugged wear material for the field.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Zorn, courtesy of a number of "lazy americans" you have a right to express yourself in any way you see fit, I in no way wish to censor your speech.

 

I do disagree with your comments that Americans are lazy

 

[Zorn Packte 10]

And how much to blue jeans cost where you live? The brand names cost $40.00 or more.

 

I get my kid's jeans at Wal-Mart for about $15 a pair. If you are silly enough to buy the anti-Scouting Levis, that's your problem.

 

I also want to know how many of those parents who don't want to lay out the $40 have their kids in sports where 40.00 is on the beginning.

 

Don't you know. Sports are "important."

 

[Zorn Packte 10]

I do disagree with your comments that Americans are lazy

 

When it comes to language, Americans are very lazy. How many languages does the average American speak fluently? How about passably? Our kids moan about having to take a foreign language in school and most parents complain along with them.

 

If you have a large vocablulary and use it in this country, you are either "putting on airs," "talking down to people" or "showing off."

 

How many supposedly educated people say to their kids, "I want you to bring this note to your teacher."?

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Whattaya talkin about, faggedaboutit, howyoudoin and wassup, I always just thought of them as charming colloquialisms...

 

I know this is beating a dead horse, but BSA pants, made of the same material as BDU's might not be a bad idea

[Zorn Packte 10]

Whattaya talkin about, faggedaboutit, howyoudoin and wassup, I always just thought of them as charming colloquialisms...

 

Colloquilisms are one thing, the inability to understand standard English is another. When you comment, "he's an amicable fellow" and no one understands you, there's a problem. Also, just look at the writing on these internet groups (or as many would say, "them internet groups"). I'm not speaking of typos such as "hte" instead of "the" or ommitting a "letter" and saying "leter". I'm refering to the inability of many to selcet the correct homophone and the gross misspellings.

 

Unnerstan'?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Zorn, I commiserate with you and while normally I eschew obfuscation, it does seem when a shard of erudition leaks out in a missive one is indeed accused of polysyllabilism, as if that were a dire thing.

 

Dealing with pedestrian vocabularies is a vexation borne by individuals with a developed lexis (and I do not mean the automobile). But I shoulder more repugnant tasks than this with zest, this is a mere trifle

[OldGreyEagle 5]

in other words:

 

I C watt u mean + eye no how u feel, write?