Who makes the call?

[Basementdweller 608]

suizk.....realistically they shouldn't worry about merit badges till they are first class.....which is 12-14 in most cases. The changes in the boys at that age really is amazing.

 

All the parents are about merit badges.....the boys at 11-13 could really careless and the boy 14-18 view them as hurtles to be jumped. now their are exceptions, but they are rare..

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

blw2: I understand your concern, and as a MBC you should be aware that I would never attempt to keep a parent of a scout in the dark. However, part of the merit badge process in Boy Scouts emphasizes the BOY building up his capacity to communicate and take responsibility for initiating things. Consequently, the BSA's standard training for merit badge counselors (and for the boys, too) indicates that the BOY, not the PARENT, should make contact with the MBC.

 

Of course, things are different in Cub Scouts, where the boys are much younger. On the other hand, Cub Scouts do not earn Merit Badges, so the discussion here wouldn't apply to Cub-aged boys.

 

You might find it interesting to pick up a copy of the Boy Scout handbook sometime, and have a look at what it instructs boys to do, regarding getting started on a merit badge. Also, I think the Merit Badge Counselor training is now online, and you might find it instructive, too (for down the road, when your son becomes a boy scout).

 

 

Basement: I'll just say that I think the interests of the boy should drive whether they work on MBs early in their time as boy scouts. My son really enjoyed doing some MBs as an 11-12 year old (reptiles & amphibians, swimming, archery).

 

The problem isn't the young guy working on a few badges - the problem comes when he does that to the exclusion of anything else, or when parents/leaders push him into doing badges he isn't interested in. So let the boy's interest be the guide, provide him with a clear idea of what other scouting activities he can be doing too, and all should be well.

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

I have yet to met an eleven year old who, away from resident camp, will work on merit badges on his own free will.......Not sayin they don't exist, but the unicorn in my world...

 

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

Basement: Meet my son who, at 11, was totally geeked up about the reptiles & amphibians badge, wanted to know everything there is to know about those critters. Several times, we drove an hour each way so he could spend a happy afternoon with a MBC/high school biology teacher/ecology PhD, chatting about all sorts of watery critters. The two of them were really funny together: "Did you know..." "Yeah, and did YOU know..." Not to mention the frog he kept for a month - what kid doesn't like THAT?

 

Then there was archery. Now, ok, he started that at camp but finished it at home with a guy who makes bows for the US olympic archery team. Yeah, that was cool & he liked it quite a bit.

 

Then there was swimming. Did I mention my kid is part frog? (Or was it salamander?) He used to bug the MBC - "can we work on it this weekend? please? huh?"

 

These weren't my ideas. They were his. He chose them, he made the arrangements to do them, and he loved them.

 

(Stark contrast to a few I **did** try to convince him to earn, which he either never finished, or really didn't enjoy. Eventually, I learned to lay off. And yeah, I think you're right that after about 14, most kids don't get real excited about MBs anymore. They've moved on, by and large. But...at age 17, my son had a blast earning Chess MB this summer, because all of his patrol buddies decided to do it together. Truth is, it wasn't really about the MB, but they had a great time.)

 

 

 

 

[jpstodwftexas 72]

This is were things get messy..

 

According to My Local Council there is not to be any one on one Communications with an Adult at any level.

 

Especially Electronically...If Emails are used then there has to be a CC sent to an adult also..

 

Even In OA I can not Email the Lodge chief without CC another member or Lodge Advisor.

 

As a Merit Badge Councilor I do not care who calls me about arranging the Secessions..

 

And Definitely a parent must stay also...2 Deep Leadership all the time..No Exceptions

[shortridge 184]

JP,

 

You or your council misunderstands the two-deep rule. That applies to outings. What you probably mean is the no 1-on-1 contact rule, which could be met by the Scout having a buddy of Scout age present, not necessarily a parent or adult.

[Twocubdad 665]

How do you conduct two-deep phone call? Find another adult and put them on speaker phone?

 

Silly.

[jpstodwftexas 72]

Makes sure you tell them that..I have to abide by their rules..Not mine

 

They say no one on one Conversations..in person..on Phone..through Private Messaging..or Email

 

I guess on Phone You have Mom or Dad in Ear shot

[chaoman45 17]

If it's a land line, you could always just have a parent on a second phone. Silly, but true.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939 28]

As a parent, I wouldn't engage an MBC about MB requirement related issues because I figure those are for my sons to address. However, if for some reason, or no reason, I happen to be the first to contact an MBC about some logistical detail, it's fine if he requests I have my son contact him... that will happen even if he doesn't request it. But if he refuses to discuss the matter with me or dispenses pedagogical advice from too high a horse, I'll conclude that it's the MBC, more than my son, who needs to work on dealing with adults he doesn't know.

 

Mention "parent" and MB together and you may stir up a swarm of alarmed Helicopter Scouters anxious about the fragile development of the apparently arcane art of "contacting an adult you have never met." It's an art that for mysterious reasons, Helicopter Scouters see as a special province of Scouter expertise so beyond parents' ken that poor delicate boys' growth is horribly stunted if parent cooties infect it.

 

Nevertheless, many Scouts live in families led by parents. Many parents are adults that MBCs and Scouters don't know well. As noted earlier in this thread, it's important to learn to communicate with adults one doesn't know. Scouters and MBCS would do well to learn confident equanimity in their communications with these unknown adults. This is especially true if Scouters or MBCs wish to flatter themselves with the conceit that teaching Scouts to communicate with unknown adults is in area in which Scouters have expertise parents lack.

 

Most Scouters and MBCs can develop the ability to deal with adults (parents) they don't know, without being condescending, without presuming too much, and instead being civil, cordial, maybe even friendly... all the while being comfortably confident that they can resist any unlikely attempts a parent might make to buffalo them. It just takes a little practice.

 

One can start by not presuming that many parent-child relationships are dysfunctional train wrecks that the Scouter is qualified to diagnose and treat. Do not assume that a parent calling is an immediate indicator of a problem or that you are responsible for or qualified to "fix" it. Imagine yourself part of an adult civic or community program and a wife calls to make some arrangement on behalf of her husband. Do you refuse to discuss it with her? Do you assume her husband needs your intervention in order to learn important life skills? Do you assume she is stunting his development? Or do you figure that since these folks are family, it's no surprise or fault that they're involved in each other's business? Parents and children are also family and for similar reasons, a parent may be involved in logistics surrounding their child's activities, even if that child is mature and well practiced at speaking for himself.

 

BTW, where can we find this requirement... the requirement - not the encouragement, favorable mention of, or preference for.... where is this requirement some are apparently adding to every MB that a boy call a counselor he doesn't know in order to earn the MB? What do we do to meet this requirement for summer camp MBS? Make the Scouts call up the MBCs in advance of summer camp and arrange meetings with them somewhere other than at the camp?

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Callooh! Callay!)

[Twocubdad 665]

Clearly any counselor who would suggest to a parent that their Scout call to make an appointment is a pompus jackass who lives for these opportunities to call out and humiliate novice Scout parents. It is simply beyond the realm of possibility for a counselor to make such a request in a courteous way and politely explain the reason for the request to the parent.

 

[blw2 433]

Wow!

I come at this as what as best as I can tell to be more informed than a typical scout parent.....

and I'm told that I won't be dealt with. That you want to have a private conversation with my son, but not with me....

I'm told to turn off certain switches....

I'm told how to breathe....

and what I should and should not drink...

... and I'm told that I will be the butt of jokes for years.

I'm treated like an idiot for not somehow not knowing that this is about the boys.

 

......and you want to be a role model of some sort for my son???

 

Just wow.

[Basementdweller 608]

BLW did you not write the following????

 

"I would be furious and you as a leader would stand to be in a heap of trouble. These are minors we are talking about, and there should be no indication of anything being witheld from a parent.

Now I understand that it's about growing the boy with increased responsibility, but give the parent some info, talk it through with them. Tell them what will be said or done when the boy calls, etc....

Refuse to deal with a parent, and I'll promise if that parent is worth his or her salt, you WILL be dealing with them. "

 

 

My response to you is proportional and appropriate.

 

I think you should probably let your scout have his own journey. I hope for his sake your not his den leader.

[Lisabob 13]

blw, I don't honestly understand why, but it is clear you are upset. Thing is, what I *think* you're upset about is not what I believe others (at least, me) were saying at all. I wonder, if we were all sitting in a room talking face to face, would we be having this problem communicating?

 

Here's what I think you are upset about. Please clarify, if I don't have this right: I think you feel that folks (maybe me) are saying we refuse to talk with parents at all, and insist on secret discussion/meetings/contacts with children where information is completely withheld from parents.

 

If that's what you are concerned about, please allow me to put your mind at ease. I certainly don't do that. I don't see others here saying that, and it isn't the way any MB counselors who I know operate, either.

 

I do see people saying the boy should learn to be in charge of setting up his own meetings. That's not being secret or hiding info from parents or anything of the sort. I also happen to agree with this approach, which is in keeping with the training BSA provides to both merit badge counselors and boy scouts about how the boy should contact a MBC.

 

So here's what actually happens.

 

When a parent contacts me to try to arrange a meeting for their son, it isn't as though I hang up on them or something. Generally, they're parents of boys who only just joined scouting and they (parent and/or boy) aren't sure how to get started, or they're parents of boys with special needs that pose communication challenges and they're really just trying to smooth the path. So we exchange pleasantries, maybe I ask them how their boy is enjoying the troop/scouting so far, and then we have conversation about the merit badge process. I let them know that their son needs to contact me in order to set up a time and get started.

 

If there's some kind of communication issue then we might talk about how to best help the boy do whatever he's capable of, or work around the issue if possible. For example, I worked with a boy who has a speech impediment. The parent wanted to touch base about that because some adults tend to rush him or just talk over him and not be patient enough to let him express himself. That was helpful to know. A little while later the boy caught up with me at a troop meeting and arranged to start working on the badge.

 

The only times I've ever been a bit short with a parent about a merit badge were as follows:

 

1. The lady who called me, almost certainly drunk as a skunk, and opted to scream obscenities at me about her perception that I was being too hard on her darling (because I wouldn't accept a half-hearted something he did in, literally, 2nd grade, for a merit badge requirement when he was 15). The fact I'd known this lady for many years and had to remove her from previous scouting events more than once due to behavior and drinking issues, did little to encourage my patience, I admit.

 

2. The guy who tried to tell me - not ask, tell - how I would accommodate his son's very limited schedule for getting (not earning) a MB without actually doing the work. I was informed by this gentleman that I *would* find a way to meet with his son at a specific day, time, and location, and I *would* sign off on the completed merit badge regardless of what the boy actually had ready to show me, "or else."

 

Um, yeah, we're all volunteers here. "Or else" what, exactly? Not to mention, I might be female and a lot smaller than he was, but I don't take kindly to attempted physical intimidation. I told him to pound sand. Perhaps I wasn't entirely courteous that day.

 

[JMHawkins 15]

Scouters and MBCS would do well to learn confident equanimity in their communications with these unknown adults. This is especially true if Scouters or MBCs wish to flatter themselves with the conceit that teaching Scouts to communicate with unknown adults is in area in which Scouters have expertise parents lack.

 

Ha ha. I don't think I have any special skill in teaching Scouts how to communicate with unknown adults, but then that's not what the Scouts need anyway. They don't need someone to teach them how to do it, they just need to do it.

 

Really, that's what it usually boils down to, the Scout knows perfectly well how to pick up a phone and call the MBC (well, so long as it's a push button dial. Give 'em one of those old rotary dial phones and he might break a finger). But the kid doesn't want to because it's scary. What they need to learn is that it's okay, they won't die of embarrassment. I can't teach them that, they really only learn it by doing it.

 

Same thing if they need to reschedule or ask a question. It's not a matter of knowing how, it a matter of getting past the metal blocks.

 

So yeah, if Mom or Dad handle the occasional communication, that's fine. But if they're making the majority of the calls, then they are denying their own son the opportunity not to learn a skill, but rather to develop his own self-confidence.

 

Scouts don't need personal secretaries. They need the self-confidence to handle that stuff themselves.

 

Oh, blw2, chill out. You're out of line, too wired up, and you're not even hearing the message folks are trying to convey.