snugharborlabs 10 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I need help determining if there's a problem with a First Class Scout's service project for his Star rank. We have a scout wanting to raise money to donate to a non-profit organization "The Hugs Project" for the military as his service project. His plan is to take donated items and sell them at a tag sale/bake sale and donate the cash to this 501c non-profit. This involves requesting donated items, organizing a tag sale at his house, and supervising fellow scouts to man the tables during a day-long tag sale. The rest of the unsold items will be donated to a local charity. He needs to come up with $50 as a minimum donation for this non-profit. The project was reviewed by 2 ASM's and signed off on by our SM. Now we have a committee member concerned this doesn't fit with BSA policies. As Advancement Chair I cannot locate any reference as to this not being a suitable service project for a scout looking to advance to Star. Your thoughts?? Link to post Share on other sites
kbandit 10 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 What is the donated money going to be used for? Maybe if it were for a specific item/use it would be better understood. Example "I am raising money to help purchase a refrigerator for XYZ Charity." Link to post Share on other sites
Sentinel947 1205 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 What reason did the Committee member give for his unease with the project? I'd also like to state that this Committee member is out of his jurisdiction. Link to post Share on other sites
The Blancmange 67 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 First, a point of clarification, there is no "Star Service Project" requirement. The requirement is: "While a First Class Scout, take part in service project(s) totaling at least 6 hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster." So the Scout doesn't need to develop, plan, lead, or anything else that some people tend to use to turn this and the Life service requirement into mini Eagle projects. They can work on any service project, regardless of whether it is associated with the troop or scouting otherwise, as long as the Scoutmaster approves of it. As for whether the activity mentioned otherwise comports with BSA policies, I do think this is more problematic. Scouts are not supposed to raise money under the auspices of scouting for other organizations, even if it is a non-profit. This language comes from the National by-laws: "Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for chartered organization units, for the local council, or in support of other organizations." This is, at its basic level, fundraising for another organization.(This message has been edited by the blancmange) Link to post Share on other sites
snugharborlabs 10 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 For every $50 donated to the organization, the Hugs Project (http://www.thehugsproject.com/) donates care packages of toiletries and most especially special helmet coolers for the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. The committee member thinks that the boy shouldn't be raising money specifically, nor should he be doing this "out of his home". The tag sale is being done like any other tag sale - at the end of his driveway, using items people have donated to sell. I don't have any issue with it, and I'm the Advancement Chair for the troop. My husband, an ASM with the troop, told the boy it was an excellent, novel idea, and another ASM and the SM approved it. But this committee member went to our council's Eagle advisor with her concerns, whose only comment was, don't do this as an Eagle project. You guys think this is a legit service project? Link to post Share on other sites
snugharborlabs 10 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 With regards to the "service project" issue, our troop's take on the 6 hours community service is to have the boys develop their leadership skills by doing mini service "projects". We've gone round robin any number of times among the committee, and along with ALOT of input from our local council, have decided to stick with this idea. Our local council is pretty particular on Eagle service projects (a whole other issue!), and our SM and troop leadership believe it helps the boys develop their skills in preparation for Eagle. I've read the BSA rules about fundraising, but am confused about the actual application - many of our boys raise $$ for local welfare groups - we had a boy do a service project just today for our local non-profit animal shelter - he was collecting newspapers and donated items, but also ended collecting $600 to give to the shelter. We have a great town willing to help, which is a good thing. I guess I confused as to the difference - Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1591 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You are going to get answers all over the board on this. As such, I'd use the basic rule of thumb that if the scout is doing a good deed, then congratulate him and get out of the way. Officially speaking, I'd look at two things from the Guide To Advancement, http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf . GTA 4.2.3.3 Service Projects - Essentially leaves it open to the scoutmaster. The only real key is pre-approval. But even that is scoutmaster perogative. IMHO, a perfect example would be a scout walking up to the SM (or an ASM) and saying "I'm going to work on Timmy's eagle project this weekend. Can I use that for my Star rank service project requirements?". Scout thought ahead and asked. Not going for star rank and looking to hodge podge together service. ... Scoutmaster perogative. Lots of flexibility. Nothing strictly required each individual scout to talk with scoutmaster. Could be group approval too. GTA 9.0.2.10 Fundraising Issues - Says "eagle" projects can't be fundraisers for the sake of raising funds. Okay to raise funds to get materials to work your project. Not okay to raising funds to donate money. Not directly applying to your case, but I think it's an important message. We want the scouts doing something tangible. In your case, I'd be 100% fine with the scouts plans. My only comment is that it seems pretty darn formal process for just a star life servic project. ... That gets to the heart of my response. Star and Life service projects are definitely NOT mini-Eagle service projects. No signatures are needed. No write ups are needed. If your troop wants to do that, I don't see anything officially written saying you can't add as much burocracy as you want. But the emphasis for star and life is doing a good deed. Again ... IMHO ... the best time to discuss service project for the star rank is at the first class scoutmaster conference. Take a moment as part of the scoutmaster encouraging advancement to ask if the scout has ideas what he'll do for service for the next rank. A friendly conversation is enough. ... IMHO. ... Now if you want to get "legalistic" the scout doesn't even need to talk to the scoutmaster. The requirement is "While a #### Scout, take part in service projects totaling at least #### hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster." - So if your SPL arranges with a camp ranger to clear brush for an hour on a weekend camp and your scoutmaster agrees, the time should count. - If a scout has an approved service project, another scout can help out. No official need to talk with the scoutmaster because the project is already approved. ... I think the key points are... - Doing a good deed for others and recognizing that's what we do because we are scouts ... and because we are citizens ... and because we are people of faith ... and because that's one what person does for another. - Giving the scoutmaster a chance to have feedback into the service project ... for safety ... for consideration ... for coordination ... for simple planning. For example, if a scout want's to use his time as an alterboy to count as service, I'd hope he'd talk to the scoutmaster. I know our scoutmaster would count it. But it's really a matter of communication. .... To be blunt and I apologize if I offend, it sounds like your troop is over the top on what's to be done for service projects for star and life. If many troops do this, you can count on two more pages being added to the GTA. (This message has been edited by fred8033) Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 snugharborlabs, Just to be clear: for Star and Life the Scouts DO NOT have to organize a project. They only have to participate on a project. The requirement is not to have them practice doing an Eagle project by organizing or managing a mini or even a micro service project. That is simply not in the requirement. Fred gave some good advice and cited the sections in the Guide to Advancement dealing with service projects at this level. Again, Service project work for Second Class, First Class, Star and Life Scout ranks DOES NOT require planning, development, managment or leadership. The requirements clearly call for participation only. Units are not authorized to add to these requirements. To make them organize a project is adding to the requirements which neither your Scoutmaster nor your unit's committee is authorized to do. (see page 2 of the Guide to Advancement) (also see section 4.2.3.3 Service Projects in the Guide to Advancement) As far as any money earning or donations for a service project are concerned, a money earning application must be filled out and approved by the Council. (Eagle candidates can get them approved at the district level.) Again, there is no such thing as a Second Class, First Class, Star or Life service project. There are either community or private group service projects that a Scout participates on, or Scout unit, district or council service projects that a Scout participates on. The money earning application is located here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf I hope this helps and I hope I wasn't too harsh in my wording. (This message has been edited by bnelon44) Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Fricken adults Adding requirements....... 6 hours of community service in 4 months........Call the local park system if it is like most they run projects every weekend.....Local food pantrys always need help, stocking shelves or hauling bags to the car.....Couple saturdays your done...... Easy proposition...... So why the focus on the boys running projects..... Link to post Share on other sites
Sentinel947 1205 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Snug. It sounds like a perfectly acceptable service project. As long as it doesn't conflict with BSA fundraising rules Blancmange mentioned. I think it does though. Even if it doesn't meet the fundraising rule, you have a remarkable child in your troop who can conceive a fundraiser like that. Furthermore, Star and Life Service Work does not have all the rules an Eagle Project has. For example Star and Life Service hours can be done for a BSA camp. An Eagle Project cannot be. Link to post Share on other sites
snugharborlabs 10 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Thanks fred8033 for your input. Don't mind the bluntness at all :-) . We ended up formalizing the process with forms/signatures because we were having boys mishmash time and calling themselves done on service without the SM preapproval aspect in place. We also had big issues with boys cleaning a neighbor's/grandparent's yard and calling it community service, and not having proper supervision (just a mom in the house and fireworks being set off in the woods by some of the boys - ugh!) in the process. Sounds formal, but adults are not being smart about a bunch of boys running amok and calling it service hours. My husband (an ASM in the troop) was a little bent about the worries of raising money - he's up in arms that here we have a boy trying really hard to do a good deed for the soldiers in a way that is meaningful for the boy and a committee member is worried about raising money for a good cause. I guess since this is the first time we've had a boy intent on just raising money first and foremost, we may be overstepping the rules. Other times the boys have been raising donations of goods (newspapers for lining kitty litter boxes etc.), and the money was a sidenote. We'll make note of it and encourage boys to just look to raise item donations instead. Link to post Share on other sites
snugharborlabs 10 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 "While a First Class Scout, take part in service project(s) totaling at least 6 hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster." To answer those folks that posted about our troop adding to the requirements - we know what the requirements are. Unfortunately our town doesn't have such projects being organized on a regular basis to have our boys participate in. Our local scout reservation is several towns over with several strong local troops helping it out. Our town is very small but is blessed with two very active scout troops, plus many girl scout troops doing service projects as well. We have a very large group of boys reaching the Star and Life ranks, with no real group of older boys reaching Eagle above them to help out on. So this intrepid group (18 - 14 yr olds) are creating their own. So they do drives for our local food pantry, animal shelter, clean up our local park upteen times over etc. etc. This boy wanted to help the soldiers overseas directly. I'll be sure to mention to the SM to discourage direct fundraising the next time. Thanks again for all your input. Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 snugharborlabs, No problem but I would suggest in such cases it would make sense for your unit to organize some service projects as a unit that the Scouts could then participate on (we do this sort of thing at least two times a year, and often more). The PLC could organize them. I wouldn't regularly put the burden on a Scout as a "practice" for his Eagle project though and require him to get it organized and done. That would indeed be adding to the requirements which you cannot do, which we covered already. Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1591 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 snugharborlabs - Sounds like your troop is working hard. Gotta applaud that. Just focus on giving this scout a good experience so that in the future he naturally leans toward helping others and giving service as part of his personality. That's the important part. As for service projects, we never have trouble with them. - We do a small service project on virtually ever camp out (scout camp, state park, other). The SPL asks if there's a service project the scouts can do. Usually a one hour project or less. - We do a few hours of service for our charter organization once or twice a year. Cleaning the grounds or other. - Many scouts do service at their church, school or other community group. Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Asking the land use agency if you can do a small service project can also get you discounts and extra presentations by the local rangers. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now