The Goal of BSA Advancement is Not Eagle

[bnelon44 17]

Just a reminder. See section 2 of the Guide to Advancement.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmm...

 

I think what yeh mean to say is that the BSA's goal for Advancement is not Eagle.

 

For an individual unit, their goal for the Advancement program might be Eagle(s). We might disagree with that as an approach, but it would still be the case.

 

For a boy, his goal for Advancement might very well be Eagle. Or not.

 

For a parent, their goal for Advancement probably is Eagle.

 

It's da tension between different goals for different folks that keeps things interestin'.

 

 

Beavah

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Actually, Section 2 doesn't even mention Eagle, one way or the other.

 

I decided to look at the Boy Scout Handbook (12th Ed., 2009 printing) to see what the BSA is telling the boys their goal should be. Take a look at page 54, entitled "Reaching Your Goals." I am not going to type the whole thing here (unless I have to), but it sure sounds to me like the BSA is telling the boys that the goal of the advancement program -- at least, THEIR goal -- is to make Eagle. Can you really interpret it any other way?

 

I am not saying this is good or bad, I am just reading what it says.

[Twocubdad 665]

Cool. Tuesday night I think I'll announce that we've decided advancement is too much effort so we're going to drop it in favor of the other seven methods. Think how much more camping and leadership training we can get in if we don't bother with merit badges or rank requirements. Other troops blow off uniforming, patrols and youth leadership, right?

 

I'll let you know how it goes (and who the new Scoutmaster will be).

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I know that as a Scoutmaster thirty years ago, my goal for Scouts wasn't Eagle. And my goal for troop advancement wasn't Eagle either.

 

 

My goal for youth advancement was to encourage and support the trail to First Class. Our promise to boys entering the troop was to make them competent hikers and campers, which was encompassed by the Trail to First Class.

 

So my goal was to enable and support Scouts in achieving First Class. It wasn't my job to make them get First Class, they still had to be motivated to do the work. But I insured that the program made that possible and encouraged it.

 

But Scouts set their own goals, not me. A boy who was happy with First Class didn't get nagged by me, and a boy who needed some support and encouragement to earn Eagle would have my support for his goal.

 

That's always been my attitude, anyway.

[bnelon44 17]

From the Guide to Advancement:

 

Advancement Defined

 

Advancement is the process by which youth members of the Boy Scouts of America progress from rank to rank.

 

It Is a MethodNot an End in Itself

 

Advancement is simply a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is one of several methods designed to help unit leadership carry out the aims and mission of the

Boy Scouts of America.

 

=============

 

So there you go. Advancement is a means to an end, not an end in itself. That end would be the goal. What is that end? That end, that important thing that advancement should be achieving is not getting Eagle. What is it then? Well it says in section 2. That end goal is to carry out the aims and mission of the BSA. That is the is the goal of the program, that is the goal of advancement and that should be the goal of every unit.

 

Focusing on any rank, including Eagle is getting your eye off the goal. Your making advancement an end in itself. But that isn't the goal. The goal is character development, citizenship training, and mental and physical fitness.

 

 

Too many parents think the goal is to get Eagle and then get out and have their sons do other things, maybe things they think are more important (like sports.)

 

I think one of our jobs is to explain to them what the real goals are.

 

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[Eagledad 2777]

>>Focusing on any rank, including Eagle is getting your eye off the goal. Your making advancement an end in itself. But that isn't the goal. The goal is character development, citizenship training, and mental and physical fitness..>Too many parents think the goal is to get Eagle and then get out and have their sons do other things, maybe things they think are more important (like sports.)

 

I think one of our jobs is to explain to them what the real goals are.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, bnelon44, I agree with yeh. Though I'm not really convinced that it's possible to change another person's goals, we can at least advocate for what we think is the best approach or be clear about our goals.

 

But here's the thing.

 

Yeh say that Advancement is not a goal, not an end in itself.

 

Yeh say that the real goal is the Aims of the BSA.

 

Yeh say that Advancement must serve the Aims.

 

And yet, whenever any of us here talk about how it's necessary to interpret and apply the Advancement Method so as to serve the aims, yeh turn it back into a Goal. Yeh make "The Requirements" the absolute - the Goal for advancement, instead of thinking about how the requirements are supposed to help achieve character and fitness and citizenship. Worse, it's usually da literal requirements, fenced in by the "Thou Shalt Not Add" bit, and interpreted in ways that have no relationship to character, or fitness, or citizenship.

 

That's how we in the BSA are often not clear about our goals, and how we send mixed messages to parents and to boys. We care about citizenship, but we'll reward you even if you don't participate. We care about fitness, but doing one pull-up is too much to expect, as is preparing food safely. We care about character, but as long as you hold a title for 4 months in any combination you Advance, even though you never really demonstrated responsibility.

 

When we send such mixed messages, it's no wonder that folks get confused, and many follow our lead and turn Advancement into a Goal.

 

Beavah

 

[bnelon44 17]

For those who haven't read it, it might be worthwhile to take 5 minutes and read:

 

Advancement Defined:

http://scouting.org/scoutsource/GuideToAdvancement/AdvancementDefinied.aspx

 

(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Earlier I pointed out that Section 2 does not mention the word "Eagle." So now I decided to go looking for the word "goal." It appears once: "Though certainly goal-oriented, advancement is not a competition." So I don't think things are quite so clear-cut. And then, as I also pointed out, the Boy Scout Handbook (i.e. the document the BSA is giving to the boys to read, unlike the Guide to Advancement) does set Eagle as a goal.

 

I think what the BSA is really saying here is that advancement should be kept in perspective. I'm not sure the BSA itself does that perfectly, for example the now-famous statement in section 3.0.0.3 of the Guide to Advancement stating that the "Unit Advancement Responsibilities" include: "Establish practices that will bring each new Boy Scout to First Class rank within a year of joining, and then to Star rank the following year." That does sound kind of like a goal, doesn't it? And I hate the way they word that; what do you mean "bring" the Scout to First Class and Star? That sounds like the Scout is passively riding in the advancement-car, observing the ranks along the way, rather than actually doing anything.

 

I think we also need to realize that the word "goal" is somewhat ambiguous. You can have intermediate goals and ultimate goals and maybe other kinds of goals as well. This is why the whole "strategic planning mentality" drives me crazy, with its goals, objectives, aims, purposes, mission statements, vision statements, etc. etc. Half the time I can't tell which is which, and I doubt the people using these terms can really tell either. Sort of off-topic, but I just think we need to be careful about making dogmatic statements with the word "goal."

[Engineer61 19]

Then why does the SM point out the Eagle rank at every CoH?

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

I didn't when I was SM. Like Wood Badge, it's really not something that needs to be heavily promoted, in my opinion.

 

My nephews aged out of Boy Scouts as Life and 1st Class Scouts. I never discussed Eagle with either of them. They were perfectly capable of deciding what they wanted to do. They both enjoyed doing a fifty miler each year, for example.

[bnelon44 17]

The SM can really determine what is or is not important to the Scouts. This is a good example. If a SM concentrates on a "goal" of becoming Eagle, he shouldn't be surprised when his Scouts disappear after getting Eagle.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I've always maintained that yeh can tell what a person's or organization's real goals are by where they spend their time and resources, eh?

 

Doesn't matter a lick what they claim the goals are.

[BSA24 10]

If he advances through scouting with good leadership, the effects should be the same for the boy no matter why anyone was doing it.