Scouts view of advancement method

[Eagle92 110]

Lisa,

 

Please, please, PLEASE do not push your son. It will come back to bite you in the butt in my expereince.

 

My recommendations is the following: have one of the older scouts, or leaders that your son is comfortable with to discuss the situation with him. No pushing, just a chat.

 

But I will say this, compare to some eagles I have met and read about, I'd rather have some adults who only Star and Life with me in the boonies than them.

[Lisabob 13]

Eagle92,

 

I'm trying very hard to provide support without pushing - though for me, I hate leaving things unfinished so yes, it bothers me some, esp. the mostly-finished merit badges. But I'd rather it be his choice, than try to force him (and anyway, he's as stubborn as I am, and that's saying something).

 

Actually I think he is quite tired of all the concerned & caring folks "chatting" with him, though he knows they mean well. He just isn't buying what they're selling. He told me tonight he felt a lot of the things people were telling him about what Eagle will "do for" him, or how it will make him feel about himself, are sounding pretty hollow to him.

 

I couldn't argue a whole lot even if I wanted to. Most kids aren't going to get most scholarships, be accepted to most colleges, get most jobs, or generally make it in life on the basis of being Eagle scouts. And if they do, it won't be because they have the rank; it will be because they've internalized the ethos. This is not a knock on the rank - but these external motivators are probably poor ones for most of the kids, most of the time. When we over-sell these external rewards and kids figure that out (dang it, they're smart!), they discount everything else we say after that.

 

Scoutson is just one young fellow and this is merely anecdotal evidence. But I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, and as I have, I've reached the conclusion that advancement needs to be a) understood as one, not the only, method of scouting and b) it needs to be built into the program so that it happens naturally, and c) it needs to be meaningful in demonstrable ways so that they build faith in the process.

 

Failing those, it becomes the goal rather than a natural outcome and it becomes about the outward symbol and what adults want (and may be seen as a joke or a product of adult coercion), rather than a token acknowledgement of inner growth and something the youth value from their experiences in scouting.

 

Hey, who knows, he helped start a Crew. Maybe he'll start fresh and work toward one of the Venturing awards at some point. Or not.

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

LisaBob,

 

I share your frustration. My 13 year old is dragging on advancement and partial MB's. Really just wants to camp and do the exciting stuff. Occasionally is ambitious and is pretty disorganized...probably a normal 13 year old. On the other hand he retains the stuff he has learned.

 

I think the easy MB's and FCFY does erode the motivation for the older boys. The MB's seem to not mean that much beyond your folks were willing to drive you to the District MB class and pay the fee. Most of the weak campers who made 1st Class last year and are almost Star seem to be forgetting the basics.

 

I find it interesting what my two boys pick for their Merit Badges. Son #1 picks Survival, Hiking, Shooting, Rowing, etc. Son #2 does Plumbing, Cooking, Painting. For variety of subject matter the MB's can't be beat. However BSA has taken the fun out of them. Survival is pretty boring, Camping now is mostly list making, and Cooking seems to involve not as much cooking as you might think.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, Lisabob, advancement is a trick we use with external motivation to help young men become internally motivated. Once they are internally motivated, then its work is done, eh? There is no longer any point to da method.

 

At that point, if well-meaning adults try to "chat" or "push" then teens rightly feel that they're being treated like little kids and fools. So they do what any of us as adults would do and push back. It's da surest way for 'em not to make Eagle.

 

About da only way I've ever gotten such lads to go for it is to come at it a different way. In order for da Eagle rank to really mean anything, the best scouts have to go for it. If the best scouts in da troop aren't making Eagle, then the trick of motivation won't work for the younger boys, as your son's experience demonstrates. So it's an act of service for the good lads to go for it, because it helps the younger boys. Besides, it's fun to put together a project that really helps an organization yeh care about, and yeh really can learn some good stuff from da right counselor for the required badges.

 

But honestly, in da big scheme of things, your son has already learned da lessons advancement was there to teach. So be proud of him, and don't sweat the trivial kid's badge game if he's not.

 

Beavah

 

Sometimes they'll get the

[Eagledad 2777]

Ealge92 and Lisabob

 

92, you and I come from basically the same experience and same mold. Lets just say that when I read your post, brilliant minds think a like. By the way, I think Eamonn created that mold for us.

 

Anyway, I was the scoutmaster of many Eagles, and that says a lot for a true boy run program that was NOT advancement driven. We were leadership driven and personal skills driven, which I think led to so many eagles in our troop. But we had one Eagle who gave a speech at his Eagle court of Honor that still touches me today. It went something like this:

 

And I want to thank my parents for without them, I would not be standing here today. Yes, I admit that I did not like them hounding me about earning the Eagle. But I did recognize their sacrifices so that I could earn it. My dad put in thousands of hours as a Scout Leader and my mom gave as much time on the committee. They never begged or pleaded, they just reminded me of my schedule and my goals. They were that little push I needed until I grew up enough to understand how to push myself. I share this honor with them, not because they wanted it more than me, but because they love me enough to guide me as parents should.

 

Now that was a speech from the heart and it was the speech of a real Eagle. I heard the speech early enough in my scouting career that I allowed it to balance my principles of guiding scouts how set his path and his goals and how I guided scouts to be more self sufficient in achieving their goals. If we were to have Eagles in our Troop, I wanted all of them to be as mature as that young man. But even more, I wanted all our scouts to have that same maturity the day the left scouting, no matter their rank.

 

To add, my 28 year old son is an Eagle, but my 25 year old left Scouting at age 18 as a Life Scout, just like his dad. So I can Totally relate to both of your positions. And in fact I think both you and Lisabob are identical in your thinking on the subject. Both of you have always been pretty consistent on this subject through the years, which makes this forum pretty valuable for those adults seeking wisdom. I thank you Eagle92 and Lisabob for that.

 

Lisabob, I fully understand how you feel with your son. My favorite oldest son earned his Eagle within two weeks of being 18, so there is hope. My favorite youngest son just couldnt see it, and to this day has no regrets, so it will be OK. Of course parents want the best and the most for their kids. And I understand that at the core for many of us parents, it isnt about resumes or job applications, its just about reaching that bar that was set just a little higher. We dont want them to have regrets later down the road and it maybe we would like just a hint of ambition they will use in their future. I understand that its not about the Eagle, it something deeper and more important. Its about proving they will be OK in their future as an adult. It just one more little bit of evidence that they will be OK.

 

I can only say that what helped me as a SM wanting all my scouts to set their highest goals and feel satisfied with their accomplishments was that as a Life Scout, I still have no regrets what-so-ever because the values that I gained from my experience in scouting as a youth are so ingrained in my character that I felt compelled to pass them on to the youth I encountered in my life. Not just as a SM, but as a father, coach, church youth leader and a member of the community. I didnt get the badge, but I must have got the heart because I have passed on my scouting soul to hundreds of boys and girls after me. Which is probably the reason I love this scouting stuff so much.

 

Barry

 

[artjrk 11]

As SM, we never set the program up to get Scouts to 1st Class in a year. Instead we would cover all the skills necessary for 1st Class each year. All the Scouts would go over them every time. Our emphasis was learning the skills by repetition, to make each scout more independent on outings. The older ones leading the younger. Most of the boys would end up getting 1st Class in their second or third year.

 

For the higher ranks, the onus is put directly on the boy. Most eagle Scouts in the troop achieved their rank in High School.

 

My oldest finished days before his 18th. My 17 year old is happy to stay at 1st Class, which he actually received in a short 8 months after crossing over. His focus is on high adventure and the Venture Crew.