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bnelon44

The New Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook

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MIB - That project you denied still wouldn't have gone through.. The project needed to be for a church, school or community.. Person only if the person's problem has become of intrest to a community..

 

I don't think tracking down a specific persons' family lineage would fall under any of that.. I am thinking a project benefiting a person when it is of intrest to a community would be something like a sick childhood that the local neighborhood has taken up the cause to help the child and family.. Or finding some way to help the family of a fallen police officer, since the community would rally around that also.

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He was able to kind of explain that the project would have served the military/vetran community... and the head of our eagle board even made note of this as a vetran himself.

 

There was a community that was being serviced there.....but the project as a whole just didnt leave you with the feeling of it and as individual parts seemed more focused on the boy himself.

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Let us remember that once upon a time, no such project was required for Eagle rank. Only (if memory serves) the demonstration of service to others (Scouting, community, etc.) thru one's (?) quality of life (?).

When the new requirement was added, it was meant, I think, to further establish the elite quality of the Eagle rank.

Does the new workbook help to do that? Or only make it easier to justify mediocrity?

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I think as Beavah stated, the new workbook was on the right path with putting an end to those district/councils that made the proposal work the equivalent of a master thesis, and the project something that you couldn't accomplish without devoting a full year to it's implementation..

 

In district/councils like that something got lost in a desire to prove their scouts more elite then others because of the rigor of the Eagle project they must endure..

 

Unfortunately not enough attention was paid to helping an Eagle board with a fairly decent expectancy in order to weed out mediocre from a decent project, trying to explain what is the threshold that they use..

 

The ability is still there for the board to reject or alter a project in order to make sure the project is not a joke.. But, the question is left to the board to figure out how it defines it threshold, and one thing it cannot use is a threshold of hours..

 

Service, impact, and leadership are the objectives and measurements.

 

Eagle Scout projects must be evaluated primarily on impact: the extent of benefit to the religious institution, school, or community, and on the leadership provided by the candidate. There must also be evidence of planning and development

 

one of the primary purposes of the Eagle Scout service project is to demonstrate or hone, or to learn and develop, leadership skills. Related to this are important lessons in project management and taking responsibility for a significant accomplishment.

 

Your project must present an opportunity for planning, development, and leadership.

 

 

So.. What is to be used for a board to figure out the threshold of sufficient planning, development, impact, service, leadership?

 

I have yet to hear any concrete ideas from any of you.. OGE said listen to the scout on what he thinks his project holds for leadership.. Fine start.. but after hearing it you must determine if the project has enough leadership by using the threshold of WHAT as your guide..

 

Then... In true BSA practice.. It makes conflicting statements, that cause a problem..

 

Back up the the Muzzuca statement..

...Some may suggest how big your project should be, or how many hours should be spent on it, but that is entirely up to you. Service, impact, and leadership are the objectives and measurements...

 

...Others means at least two people in addition to the Scout. Helpers may be involved in Scouting or not, and of any age appropriate for the work. Councils, districts, and units shall not establish requirements for the number of people led, or their make-up, or for the time worked on a project. The most important thing here is that the Eagle Scout candidate exhibits leadership...

 

...In any case, be sure the project presents a challenge that requires

leadership, but also something that you can do with unskilled helpers, and within a reasonable period of time...

 

 

 

In the span of two sentences back to back, this is a conflicting statement.. Because you can not have a project that shows "Service, impact, and leadership" with a project that is too small in scope, with mommy & daddy being your other two warm bodies.. Or even something in decent scope if they plan to use only two warm bodies who are two people who have the skills. Lets say a carpentry job, using Uncle Joe & Uncle Pete who are carpenters by trade..

 

In these cases the board should have the right to request that other people be used, or that while Uncle Joe & Uncle Pete can be used as the scouts guides during the planning stage, that there is unskilled labor also present during the work days that are being lead & directed by the scout and not the Uncles.. Reason being the make-up of the people the scout wants to use will not demonstrate the scouts leadership abilities at all..

 

But, the scout (or his parents) can argue the board has no right to dictate the make-up of the people being led by the scout..

 

So for the parents & scouts that want to nitpick the system apart to find the loopholes and figure out ways to cheat the system.. There are going to be enough loopholes for them to dig into..

 

(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

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SSScout,

 

Originally a project was not required for Eagle. Just 21 badges (of any kind.) That slowly changed an some required badges were introduced.

 

Before 1948 in addition to the badges he just had to have satifactory service as a Life Scout. After 1948 he actually had to work actively as a leader in his troops meetings, outdoor activities, and projects; do his best to help in his home, school, place of worship, and community; and take care of things that belonged to him and respect the property of others (note how what he did outside of Scouting counted towards the rank.)

 

In 1965 he had to serve in specific POR and in the words of the 1965 handbook, the Scout had to plan, develop, and carry out a service project helpful to [his] church or synagogue, school, or community approved in advance by [his] Scoutmaster.

 

During the 1970s the number of required badges jumped to 24 for a brief period.

 

History is here: http://www.nesa.org/PDF/58-435.pdf(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

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moosetracker,

 

The loopholes will always exist unless we want national to set draconian policies (and I don't think we do.) In the end the Scout has to rely on trustworthy leadership.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

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Wow, I didn't know my husband's service project for Eagle was so close to it's introduction.. He got it in 1969. He is proud of the fact he earned it before the program changed, but is always looking for an eagle badge of that era, since he waited for his brother to have the EOC together, and so got the eagle badge belonging to the weaker program.. (If any of you have ideas, of where to find one it would be a great xmas gift for me to give him.)

 

He did a fun one, he introduced inner city kids to canoeing by taking them on a river trip.. Now there is one that all the safty rule would disallow today.. But his patrol had fun doing it..

 

His brother came in a few years later, and the battle of making the project ridiculously hard had already begun.. He did one project (I don't know what) and it was rejected.. He did another and the same guy tried to reject his second project.. His father then stepped in..

 

Don't know why either, his 2nd project was to collect books to start a library on an Indian reservation. He got a company to promise to transport the books early on in the project.. They thought they would just stick them on a load already bound in that direction. They chocked when at project completion they needed to have a full tracker-Trailer that was devoted to hauling the books because he had collected so many..

 

I don't know what his first project was, but I do not know how anyone could look at the results of the 2nd one, that basically created a full library for the Indian Reservation and say it did not merit enough impact to the community to be consider worthy..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

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I agree with Moosetracker that the Eagle workbook does little to help explain to an EBOR what a proper Eagle project is. It is the EBOR that determines a scouts readiness for Eagle and yet they have to make a determination with few, if any, guidelines to follow.

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Personally, I like the new workbook over the previous one. It stresses Leadership of others over organization and planning (which was a bit off balance). The other requirements remain the same. I think going forward; we will see that the Scouts will have taken on more challenging projects since they are not as hung up on the planning stage. One part that I dont care for is in the Message From the Chief Scout Executive, An Eagle Scout project is a crowning achievement following years of fun, adventure, and advancement. In completing it, you provide an example for others that they can do the same thing. It sounds like the project is the capstone of the scouting career. The Eagle Rank is not graduation from scouting.

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The reason for the change is simple. My son just slogged through a 18 month and 15 version process to get it approved. The process took so long his initial draft included activities at his school; a few drafts later the school activities were removed because it would take place in the summer; then the school was added back in the fall. The project took place in the 2nd summer, so the school activities were removed. He had to add church activities during the summer, but then remove them in the winter so it wouldn't conflict with the giving tree.

 

The most frustrating was that he had to plan every detail of each location, but he was not allowed to ask the site if they wanted to help until the project was approved by the district. If anybody said no he would have had to start all over.

 

Every draft had to have updated sample flyers with new potential dates. Every draft sent to the eagle advisers meant a delay of weeks before they would respond, sometimes they never did.

 

None of this involved leadership. In fact the troop made an effort a few years ago to make the boys plan all events, so they would have practice before the eagle project was started. Most camping trips can be planned in 2 or 3 quick turns. The boys learn that not everything can be accounted for and that there is a difference between through planning and through editing.

The same advisors have now held off scheduling the Board of Review for 66 days....and counting

 

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Thanks for the work. I do have a few issues to grumble about.

 

I can see that this provides the scout a great deal more structure that then old, I assume to prevent the excessive planning that can be required to just get the approval. But I don't see how this is less project planning that the old version. If anything it makes much of the planning more formalized and places far too much emphasis on fundraising. Now, I will grant that fundraising can be am major part of a project and certain aspects needed to be clarified, but did we need to add 2.5 pages on the subject including the fundraising application, something that likely few scouts ever had to do before.

 

I not happy about this part at all (Page 22):

Risk Management and Eagle Scout Service Projects

All Eagle Scout service projects constitute official Scouting activity and thus are subject to Boy Scouts of America policies and procedures. Projects are considered part of a units program and are treated as such with regard to policies, procedures, and requirements regarding Youth Protection, two-deep leadership, etc. The health and safety of those working on Eagle projects

must be integrated with project execution. As with any Scouting activity, the Guide to Safe Scouting applies. The Sweet 16 of BSA Safety must also be consulted as an appropriate planning tool. It can be found online at Scouting Safely, www.scouting. org/scoutsource/healthandsafety/sweet16.aspx.

 

At the time of publication of this workbook, changes were being made to the Guide to Safe Scouting that will affect how service projects are conducted. The changes limit the use of hazardous power tools, machinery, and equipment, and also such activities as working at heights or on ladders, and driving motor vehicles.

 

Can RISK MANAGEMENT not leave anything well enough alone?

 

And why make the scout file a tour plan (page 9 & 13)? I have a hard enough time figuring out when we need to file one, why make a scout do this? The scout will not have most the the information required and it seems to me to be just added busy work to make him get it but teaches nothing other than the BSA is now run by a bunch of nannies.

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jet526,

 

All official BSA unit activities MUST follow the GTSS, that includes Eagle projects. That also includes tour permits. It has been that way a long time. It is just being spelled out in the workbook so the Scout doesn't forget.

 

 

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In the past there was no requirement that the scout involve any other scouts or scouters. If they wanted to just recruit help from the benefiting organization they could, including adults. If they wanted to use no adults at all, that was acceptable as long as the safety requirements where met. This is no longer the case. Now at least two adults will be required and at least one must be registered.

 

Now in 99.9% of the projects out there this is moot. But there are exceptions and it is a shame that they are no longer possible.

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jet526

 

Again, GTSS rules haven't changed. If the activity previously required adults under GTSS it still does. The tie always was there.

 

Eagle projects were never exempted from the GTSS. They were always an official Scouting activity (at least for the last years that I have been in the program.)

 

Maybe it is a good thing it is being spelled out now.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

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The good thing about the Tour plan is that there are fewer occasion when you need to write one.. So if the project is within your council, and doesn't include a water activity or rock climbing or what not, the Tour plan will not be required.

 

5-6 years back, my son got his Eagle advisor hot under the collar about both these forms, he met with her only a few days before the event, without tourpermit or Fundraising permit filled out or sent in.. The boy got a tongue lashing (which strangely endeared the women to him) and had a lot of running around to do to get all the forms in and approved before the event..

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