Parents as Merit Badge Counselors

[Crossramwedge 10]

I know that this probably has been addressed on this board before, but please humor me. We have a parent in our troop (Type A plus personality) who home schools his kids. He has signed up for over 20 merit badges ( several Eagle required) and teaches the merit badges at home as if they are "lesson's". At almost every COH his kids haul in the badges. Yes I realize that a portion of some merit badges requirements include family involvement and are to take place at a home setting. I also know that National has no rules limiting him to a certian number of badges he can counsel his kids on. Having also HS my kids We on occasion also used lessons that would include some merit badge requirements that related to the lesson at hand. But we kept it to a minimum.

 

He is a "helicopter" parent who hovers over them and will not let his kids learn from making mistakes. If the kids mess up on cooking a meal on a campout he will take over and "cook" for them and "show" them how its done. If the kids do not wash dishes in the evening or clean up their area on their own he will jump in see that its done. In the past he would wash the dishes himself.

In similair situations What other leaders did was get the boy's up an hour earlier in the morning or wake them up in the middle of the night and have them clean up the mess from the prior evening and then the next morning have them immediatly clean up after breakfast before they could get the day started. We let the kids burn a meal or botch it up some other way a couple of times and then step in and give them a hands on refresher course on "cooking".

After a few of these lessons they would learn.

 

 

Another thing he does (along with the advancement chair) is make boy's who have earned certian merit badges at summer camp re-do the merit badges to a certian extent under the auspices of not trusting that they really understood and earned them at summer camp. The Advance chair will not sign off on them or register the partial requirements on blue cards until they are re-tested so to speak. Yes I do know that some summer camps "fudge" on the requirements but I take the position as to not second guess them.

 

Its just unsettling to me. So here is the question. Is it possible for a troop to write by laws "Suggesting" or setting a concrete limit to the number of badges that a parent can counsel his kids on. I mean lets get real. Whats to stop a person from being the primary counselor on all the merit badges he wanted to. Except in a "Lone Wolf" situation or a lousy troop there is no call for it. We are far from a lousy troop. Considered to be one of the top troops in the disrict. There are plenty of opportunities for our scouts to earn merit badges. But this way just doesn't set with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Blancmange 67]

To begin with, I don't have a problem, as a general rule, with parents counseling MB's in which they have knowledge, but the system has clearly been abused in your case.

 

How does he get blue cards? When the SM issues a blue card to him, he should assign a different counselor. If he is turning in completed blue cards without the SM's intitial approval, the SM needs to have a discussion that this is not appropriate and will no longer be tolerated.

 

You don't mention whether he is registered in any troop leadership position. I realize that this suggestion may run counter to many troop's problems of generally not having enough parent participation, but simply tell him that there are enough leaders on a particular trip and it will not be necessary for him to attend. If he is a leader, is he trained? If he is trained and persists in this, the SM or CC need to speak to him and explain that he is undermining the program, and must stop.

 

My guess is the problem reached this level because while many realized it was wrong, none of the leaders have put their foot down.

[Lisabob 13]

In my council, the council rule is that no one may be a counselor for more than 5 badges at a time. Yes I realize this might run counter to some of what national says, but the fact remains that my council does this, precisely because of situations like what you just described.

 

That also offers easy cover for a troop that can't find a way to say "no" to a parent on their own. "Sorry, but council won't let you" is much easier than "that's not a good idea and WE won't let you."

 

Aside from that, I think this is a strong troop culture thing.

 

Some troops set the standard that you can't counsel your own child, period. Or that you can only do so in certain situations (no other counselors exist, or as part of a group, or only for non-Eagle, or whatever). Troops where that's the standard can simply tell new parents "this is how we do it." If the new parent disagrees, the troop will find strength in numbers to say "ok but this is still how we do it, and you're welcome to move on if you feel so strongly about it that it becomes a deal breaker for you."

 

If you don't have that troop culture and if no one is able or willing to stand up to this parent and tell them NO (and then to work to intentionally create a new troop culture), then you are going to have to just grit your teeth. The fact that your advancement chair aids this behavior and your SM and CC aren't intervening, suggests that you should plan on the latter course of action.

[dg98adams 18]

A method of Scouting and a big part of the Merit Badge Experience is "Association with Adults"

 

Presumably "other adults" than your parents.

 

All Scouts should be encouraged to find a different Merit Badge Counselor than the last time.

 

The other issue is the SM needs to stand firm on the fact, if the Scout can't learn from his experiences (early rise to clean up for example), then the Scout can't grow.

[qwazse 4342]

Your adults need to have their own patrol 600' away from the other troop!

 

Have pan polishing contests: see if a patrol can get their gear cleaner than the Adults'.

 

At COH's have a troop award (maybe a travelling trophy) for the boy with the most counselors (i.e. # of different signatures on blue cards).

 

Somehow get it into the dad's head that his boy is missing out on a whole lot of opportunity.

[Twocubdad 665]

You're CC/COR right? It is within your authority to set the standards for how the unit operates. Obviously good leadership and management require more than imperial fiat, so how do you implement the needed changes?

 

Of course you have to decide what sort of troop you want. Over the years we've rather settled on a policy that we don't worry too much about elective MBs. Part of the MB program is for Scouts to get a taste of a wide variety of careers and hobbies. If kids blow through a whole bunch of elective MBs, I don't get too torqued over it. After three years at summer camp and with little effort, boys easily have all the elective MBs they need for Eagle anyway.

 

However, we hold their feet to the fire on required MBs. No parents as counselors (we have multiple counselors for all required MBs). Counselors are trained that they should meet with Scouts at least twice -- no showing up once with a stack of paperwork and expecting a sign-off. The idea is we expect the Scouts to work WITH the counselor to LEARN the material. The counselors are expected to do more than just grade papers. The whole adult association thing, you know.

 

While it is technically improper to retest once a counselor has signed-off on a merit badge, I do sympathize with your advancement chairman. I have never had a Scout earn First Aid at summer camp and come home having really learned the material. Our thought was to allow Scouts to "audit" the MB class at summer camp, but to issue a blue card for a home counselor. Essentially we would do the same thing your guy is doing, except we would be clear with the Scout up front that he would have to complete the badge after camp. (We never implemented this idea as we now have a counselor who teaches the MB start to finish every years.)

 

But again, if you're CC the AC works for you. If you don't want him to retest the MBs, talk with him.

 

Everything else is up to the Scoutmaster to enforce.

 

Blancemange is correct that the SM should simply refuse to issue the Scout a blue card with his dad as counselor. I also think you are justified in a troop policy limiting adults to counseling a limited number of MBs or to limit the number of MBs a Scout may earn with one counselor.

 

It's also up to the SM to manage the camping program. I know a lot of troops work on the principle that youth=SM, adults=CC so he may be looking to you for help with the dad. The best approach would be for both of you -- the COR/CC/SM combo should be fairly authoritative -- and let the dad know where the limits are on campouts. The best solution would be for the dad to stay home the next couple trips, short of that he needs to stay the heck out of the patrol campsites, period.

 

But keep the conversation friendly. Appeal to the guy's sense of what's right for his son. If he's homeschooling 10:1 a big reason for Scouting is to expose his son to other people and boy is he fouling that up. Help him see what his son can gain if he backs off.

[jhankins 10]

It sounds like you're on the right track that Dad as a MB counselor is only a symptom of the problem, the Helicopter Parent.

 

Should parents counsel badges for their kids? I personally think a few electives are fine if there aren't counselors the troop sees fit besides that parent for that badge.

 

My son is a Lone Scout and he's yet to even encroach onto the list of badges I counsel, so we've not had this problem. He still has to call counselors off the approved lists for where we travel, or for some he's gone out of council to talk with a few of the pamphlet writers because they're close to where we're going. Adult Association doesn't disappear from the methodology of the program for Lone Scouts, there's just another avenue to use.

[Oak Tree 15]

Is it possible for a troop to write by laws "Suggesting" or setting a concrete limit to the number of badges that a parent can counsel his kids on.

 

Yes.

 

From scouting.org:The Merit Badge Process

The requirements for each merit badge appear in the current BSA merit badge pamphlet for that award and in the current edition of the Boy Scout Requirements book, available at Scout shops and council service centers.

 

When a Scout has decided on a merit badge he would like to earn, he obtains from his Scoutmaster the name and phone number of the district/council-approved merit badge counselor. At this time, the Scoutmaster also can issue the Scout a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card).Here's the key quote: [the Scout] obtains from his Scoutmaster the name of the merit badge counselor.

 

The Scoutmaster/CO can use whatever process they want to in deciding which names to hand out.

[Hawkrod 10]

I can't even imagine being my sons merit badge counselor! We specifically avoid having a parent to be the MBC for their own boy unless it is a group setting where all of the boys are working on an MB (for example camping where the SM may be the MBC and also has a son in teh unit). That concept takes away from what the MB program has to offer the boy. It is not just about earning an MB, it is about going out into the world and working with another person that they do not even know (which is my preference when I give out names for MBC's to our Troop). The personal growth of the boy is all part of the experience and making that phone call, finding another boy to work on it with them and then going to meet different people with different ideas on how it should be done are a huge part of earning an MB as far as I am concerned. My oldest son has about 2 dozen MB's and he has done no more than 3 with anybody (all the Cit ones were done with a CM from a Troop across town) and most of them were done with different MBC's. I can't even fathom doing it any other way. How can you teach life skills and leadership if your son only sees you? It's mind boggling!

 

From the BSA MBC page:

"Besides parents and relatives, schoolteachers, religious leaders, and possibly coaches, most Scout-age youth don't have much contact with many other adults or professionals. A Scout's association with his merit badge counselors provides an excellent way for him to grow and gain confidence through exposure to quality adults who serve as positive role models and mentors to him. Meeting people from business and community leaders to trained specialists and enthusiastic hobbyists, a Scout can experience a chance for personal growth and a positive life-altering experience while in pursuit of a merit badge."

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Sounds like the dad is a real nightmare, have you ever known a nightmare to obey a rule? Written or otherwise? Instead of writing rules for the whole troop (sic!) why not talk to the gentleman and get his take on things and you explain your views. It may end well, it may not but why handle it in such an oblique manner?

[John-in-KC 311]

The Scoutmaster is the Guardian of the Aims and Methods.

 

BSA Requirements #33215 states the Scoutmaster assigns the MB Counselor. ACP&P #33088 says the District Advancement Chair approves all MB Counselors.

 

Got a rogue MB Counselor? Rein him in. A friendly cup of coffee with your DAC will gett him removed at years' end. For now, the SM stops assigning MBs to him, and in fact, can say to him: You will not receive any more Scouts seeking MBs from within the roster of this Troop.

 

Let me be clear: ACP&P explicitly permits parents to counsel their own children. In my role as the trainer for MB Counselors in my district, I tell folks that's usually not a best practice. Billy knows how to push Mom's button. There's also, as is implied with a veil here, an integrity issue.

[eisely 13]

This situation as described is clearly out of control. The merit badges are merely part of the problem.

 

There are a variety of circumstances where parents can legitimately counsel their own son or sons. I have done so myself for canoeing merit badge where there was no other counselor in the troop. I incorporated the MB into the activities on various canoe treks successfully and never looked back. I did discuss it with my district advancement chair before I did it the first time.

[jhankins 10]

I would think that the review portion of the "Three R's" would help catch any fault in what a merit badge has taught. If the boy really didn't learn what he was supposed to from a merit badge, that should come out in what ever review is scheduled in his troop.

[Flyingfish 10]

While this case certainly calls for intervention, I have seen the no parent rule enforced to the extreme. If the father was a master carpenter, why wouldn't we want him to teach woodworking that his son might take?

 

Back to the original premise: Does the father also serve as a counselor for other boys?

 

 

[Eagle92 110]

I'm rather conservative b/c in the area of parents signing off b/c I have seen it abused. It has happened in my pack previously. I know my son got a lot of awards at the last pack meeting as he finally got his Wolf and could get his electives. There were a few eyebrows raised, and I joked saying " This is what happens when you go to day camp," and that got a few chuckles. When the next Cub got his stuff, identical to what my son got, I said, "You can tell he went to day camp too." and more laughter. When the third Wolf got his stuff, a third, I stated " You get Wolf next month, and you'll get get your electives since you also went to day camp." That eased the situation.

 

Again I have seen it abused. But if a relative is the only legitimate MBC, then what choice do you have? We have one Nuclear Science MBC in our district, and of course his son went to him, as did others. But if someone else is available i'd use them.