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The length of time for the process to take should be of no consequence if it insures that the process works correctly. I'd rather see a lot of time involved to get all the facts straight than to get a knee-jerk ruling for or against a Scout.

"The wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine."

~source unknown?

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Congrats to Justin - and to mdsummer for persevering.


Congrats to National, for taking their time and doing right by the Scout.


It seems there are a couple of folks deserving of a heaping helping of crow - I hope (without holding my breath) that we'll see apologies from them for their rather unscoutlike behavior.



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I was not here while that post was all abuzz.. The scout sounded deserving, and the reasons to deny it seemed trivial, but then we heard only one side of the story.. So you never knew.


Either way, I am glad.. It should be MAJOR to not give a scout their Eagle, after they worked so hard for it.. And if there was something in the Scouts history that caused the SM & committee to be justified in not wanting to award him it, I am sure he has learned and grown through this process, and that would make him Eagle material alone.


I went to an Eagle Court for a boy that was in my sons Pack.. I didn't know it at the time, but he got a special day pass to get out of jail to go to his own Eagle Court! Now maybe that SM could have won, if he pressed the issue.



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Calico, there were a lot of unscoutlike assumptions and comments made by folks who didn't know the whole story....such as statements like toxic troop, etc! There are many details that those that knew the whole story chose not to share because of there sensitive nature. I too congratulate mdsummer on her Eagle Award! I just hope that life is kind to Justin because she won't always be there to manipulate situations for him. To have won an appeal, on a technicality, after National struggled for months seems like a shallow victory. Let's not forget that dozens of solid dedicated Scouters, with decades of experience, reviewed this information and found him unworthy of the award. (Committee, District and Council level)


Contrary to what you were told the Scout Master bent over backwards trying not to have this happen; much to his own detriment. No one dedicates this much time, effort, training and emotional stress unless they want to see the youth have fun and succeed. Is the troop perfect,no...I've never seen a perfect troop and I joined Scouting in 1963. Scouts are not leaving this troop in droves. This troop is healthy and has been for over forty years. It will continue to follow Scouting Methods, be boy lead and continue to create a nurturing environment for Scouts to succeed in the program.

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"...the Scout Master bent over backwards trying not to have this happen;"


There were no fewer than four appealable events in this over a year long marathon:

- The Scoutmaster refused to give a Scoutmaster conference to the Scout.

- The Scoutmaster refused to sign off on Scout Spirit.

- The Scoutmaster refused to recommend the Scout for advancement to Eagle by signing the Eagle application.

- The Committee refused to go forward with an Eagle Board of Review, even though ACP&P permits them the option to do when a Scoutmaster refuses to sign the app. The EBOR is permitted to consider the failure to recommend in their evaluation of the Scout.


Two of the four events were wholly avoidable by the unit:


- As Ed points out regularly, the requirement is participate in a Scoutmaster Conference. The Scoutmaster CAN sign off on the conference, and can refuse to sign off on Scout Spirit (living the Oath and Law in his daily life). His further unwillingness to endorse the Eagle Application lends strength to his overall position. There's still an appealable event, but the Scoutmaster has gone the mile and the extra mile. That tends to deflate sails more than a little.


- The Committee could have decided to authorize an EBOR: The CC could have told the youth "You are asking for this without recommendation of the Scoutmaster. Understand it's possible you won't be advanced to Eagle." Again, the unit has done all it was supposed to, and more. Those things matter.


Our choices define how we are seen by others.


I've written Ms Summer offlist and congratulated Justin. I do so as the father of my own son, an Eagle himself. Lord willing, Justin has grown from the experience, and will have some idealism survive what could be a very cynical marathon in his maturing life.

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Congrats to Justin.


John, yes I have pointed out many times that a SM Conference is not a pass/fail requirement. In this case the SM refused to give the Scout a SM Conference. Big difference.(This message has been edited by evmori)

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