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Exibar

too early for reqs 4a through 4e for firstclass

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If one of my new scouts is Patrol grubmaster, and he cooks the meals for his patrol, can I (as Scoutmaster), sign off on req's 4a through 4e for Firstclass for him?

I would think I could, as multiple rank requirements for multiple ranks can be worked on at the same time, but just wanted to check with you fine folks first.

 

thanks!

Mike B

 

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Looks kosher to me. There is a tenderfoot cooking requirement also; I don't think you can count the same meals for that requirement. But assuming he did three meals on a Saturday and one more on Sunday he should be able to have that signed offf also.

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That would be cool.....it would probably be even more cool if his patrol leader or Troop Guide signed off on the requirement

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Sure can. A Scout can get all his cooking requirements done at once if he so desires.

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Sure you can, but why not empower your youth leaders and authorize his SPL, TG or an Instructor to sign off?

 

I omit his PL only because I do not know the age/experience of the PL. If he's a peer of the new Scout, and doesn't know what he's looking for, I'd hold back. If you gave the new Scouts an experienced PL, then let him.

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Thank you all for the replies.

 

In my question I really meant my signing off as scoutmaster just as a generic term for anyone to sign off on the requirement as completed. I fully encourage my troop leaders to sign off on the requirements of their troops.

 

I don't know why, but just for some reason it seemed... well, odd?... to sign off on a first class requirement when the young lad hasn't made tenderfoot yet. Even though It appeared OK from everything that I see. That's one of the great and wonderful things about this forum, being able to bounce ideas and questions off of each other ;-)

 

thanks again! Until my next question! ;-)

 

Mike B

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If he successfully completes the requirements on his own, then yes, check him off. If he requires assistance, then count the attempt as learning. Remember, that rank badge recognizes what he can do, it is not a reward for what he has done. Boy Scouts isn't like Cubs or Webelos where the boy does the skill once and is checked off. He needs to master those T-FC skills. If he is still learning and needs assistance in getting the meals cooked (or planned or purchased), then let him work on it some more. He has plenty of time to get to FC. Unless this new Scout did A LOT of Den camping (and cooking) in Webelos, I'd be surprised if he has the knowledge and skills to successfully complete the requirements. If he just crossed over in the past month or two, how many campouts has he been on as a Boy Scout? How many times has he even seen a patrol cook on a campout? If you use EDGE, it sounds like the Scout is jumping ahead to Enable. If Demonstrating and Guiding are taking place, he isn't ready for check off, IMO.

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Yes, agreed. If he doesn't fulfill the requirements on his own, he doesn't earn the signoff.

the webelos that have crossed over this year have been acting as a fully functional patrol while they were in Cubs. They're used to the Patrol method, and camping as a patrol for sure ;-)

 

Mike B

 

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Exibar,

 

I don't mean to tip cold water in the cooking fire, but read those requirements very closely and think about what all they actually require. There is a lot of planning and preparation which goes way beyond just serving as patrol grubmaster and head cook. This particular requirement is the one I have historically seen trip up a Board of Review. When the BOR starts asking detailed questions about how the scout completed each of the steps and he can't answer, it's pretty obvious he didn't adequately complete the requirement.

 

There's no hurry. Let him grow and learn.

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absolutely not being a cold pail of water :-)

 

the scouts will be watched closely during the activity, and if they meet the requirements they'll be signed off on. Nothing will be signed off on unless the requirements are fulfilled.

 

Mike B

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There was a comment I'm trying to be clear on. Did I read things right that "When the BOR starts asking detailed questions about how the scout completed each of the steps and he can't answer, it's pretty obvious he didn't adequately complete the requirement."?

 

Am I the only one that's thinking, "hold on folks, that's not what BORs do"? What you are describing is what a SM Conference is about, right? BOR looks at the boy and in general terms, goes over what the young man is learning and what he is becoming. Is he taking advantage of the program that is being offered? And are the adults offering the program that the Committee and by extension the Chartered Partner is interested in?

 

You can have a young one step up in some areas and totally smash the requirements of TF, 2C, or 1C. These cooking ones come to mind, swimming comes to mind as well. Sit and visit and see how he's doing. Help him to have fun. Many people get so wound up about advancement. If a Scout is involved, and having fun, it's been my experience that advancement just takes care of itself (from their point of view).

 

Have fun, and good luck!

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"And are the adults offering the program that the Committee and by extension the Chartered Partner is interested in?"

 

Asking a Scout what he did to complete requirements is one of the ways to do this.

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AG Scouter,

 

Yes - you read right.

See: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/boyscouts/trainingmodules/boardofreviewtraining.aspx

 

One of the primary purposes of the BOR is to ensure the requirements have been met. If they are not satisfied the scout has completed the requirements to the letter, they must send him back for more work. (Technically we're also supposed to let him know the avenue for appeal if he wishes.) Through this feedback mechanism, the Troop Committee members (via BOR) work with the Scoutmaster to identify any weaknesses in the program he administers. We cannot add to, nor take away from, any requirement.

 

This should all be done with compassion and sensitivity, of course. It's not a grilling of every detail, but usually more of a sampling.

 

When a weakness in the program is uncovered, you simply take a look at who doesn't understand the program. In the troop I currently serve, the PLs sign off on rank advancement within their patrol and they had become lax with this exact 1st Class requirement. We've had a chat with PLC about sticking to the requirements as written and let them know if a scout get bounced for not successfully completing a requirement, we're coming back to them to ask questions. Then I had a chat with Committee Chair about giving this requirement a little extra attention at BORs for a while until they all get the word.

 

The checks & balances of this aspect of the BOR is an important tool for keeping the program on track.

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One of the responsibilities of a board of review is to satisfy itself that the young man has completed the requirements. Without creating a retest, one of the best ways to do this is to engage the Scout in a conversation about the details of how he completed the requirement.

 

One of the things I'm trying to change in our troop is the idea that this requirement is met the one and only time a Scout cooks for the patrol. One of the drawbacks of the First-Year-First-Class program is there aren't that many opportunities for every Scout to serve as patrol cook. The first couple campouts are generally heavy on instruction from the Troop Guides, another couple campouts are focused on Second Class requirement. That leaves just enough campouts for everone in the patrol to have one campout each to serve as cook. (I will allow we sometimes divide patrols and have two cooks on a campout.)

 

I would much prefer a situation where the boys gain experience cooking, get a few different recipies under their belts, find some dishes their patrol likes and they are good at, THEN complete the requirement as the culmination of the learning process.

 

Another reason to make Cooking MB required again.

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