Failure to act as bugler for Star advancment

[mikemayer67 10]

 

Ok... First and foremost, before I describe the dilemma that I am facing, I fully acknowledge that I screwed up as SM. I do not need feedback informing me of that fact. I am looking for suggestions on how to move forward in the best interest in the scout while maintaining the integrity of the advancement process.

 

For as long as I have been associated with this troop, it has not had a bugler. So, when one of our 1st class scouts approached me about taking on the role, I very happily appointed him to that role. He told me up front that he had never played a bugle, but had played a trumpet and would need a little time before he could play at meetings. So far, so good.

 

Where I messed up is that although early on I routinely inquired how it was going with the bugle, I eventually dropped the pressure. Tonight during our SM conference for his Star advancement, while reviewing his Troopmaster report, I realized that he has held the office of bugler for 6 months but has never actually done anything with it...

 

Extrapolating from the various discussions in this forum on scout spirit, I took the position that his failure to execute the position was really my failure to follow through. He has officially held the position and therefore has met the letter (if not the intent) of the requirement.

 

We discussed this during the SM conference and I informed him that if he is not ready to actively perform the duty of bugler within 2 weeks that we would need to remove him from that office and find him a new POR.

 

Enter the board of review. Their take was that he did not fulfill his star requirements. They also tried to make the best of the situation and (independently) told him that to complete his star requirements, he must play something (quality will not be a factor) during the opening/closing at the next troop meeting.

He left the meeting with his brother and dad in a bit of a huff.

 

I am torn on how to best proceed in the scout's interest.

A couple of factors that are running through my head.

 

1) Scout also holds position of APL. In our troop, APLs do a lot more leadership than the scribe, librarian, or TOAR. (These scouts do their jobs... it's just that our APLs do a lot more.) It bugs me to no end that APL doesn't count for a leadership position, but nobody has asked me yet....

 

2) The scout was not totally trustworthy with me. He led me to believe that it would be an easy transition for him to pick up the bugle from his (very little, as it turned out) trumpet experience.

 

3) I should have redirected his POR much earlier and not failed to catch it until the SMC.

 

Thanks for any/all helpful suggestions.

[desertrat77 1144]

Mike, I think you did the right thing.....

 

The scout learned the meaning of duty. To top it off, even after both you and the board offered him a compromise, he still didn't want to do his duty? Sorry, but he's not ready for the next rank.

 

On the other hand, I'm puzzled too as to why APL is not an "authorized" leadership position. It can be quite a job, particularly if the PL isn't doing his duty, or on a more positive point, if the PL is sharing responsibility.

 

Maybe the scout is considering his APL duties as part of the deal...even if he knows APL doesn't count, perhaps he's still thinking about the hard work he's given as APL.

 

Your decision is also in the best interest of the other scouts. Sometimes we adults forget that the scouts know when a fellow scout hasn't done his duty. When we advance scouts that aren't ready for the next rank, we take away something from the program, as well as the scouts who actually worked hard and did their duty. The scouts lose a little respect for us adults each time we pass out an award to someone who didn't fully earn it.

 

It's a tough call, but I think you are spot on. I think in the long run, it will benefit all the scouts, including the bugler. I'll bet he reconsiders!

[evmori 11]

I think you handled the situation very well. The term is "serve actively" and doing nothing is not serving actively.

[NE-IV-88-Beaver 10]

Ed, you really want to live in yesteryear! In today's watered down BSA requirement world, merely breathing for a specific period of time in a POR seems to complete the requirement. Otherwise, why would unsatisfactory performance periods still count towards the goal. Remember, if they're not in jail or you haven't found sufficient cause to throw them out of your unit, you owe them the right to advance! Isn't it a shame that the Scout program has come to the point of being the embodiment of the Peter Principle in real life!! That is what we are continually told by frequent contributors to this forum is the right way.

 

I don't buy it and I want to live in yesteryear with Ed. If we don't make the requirements mean something, we're totally wasting our time in trying to develop the desired leadership qualities in our youth. Sometimes, "life just isn't fair" is the most important lesson that can be taught in preparing young men for what is to come in their lives. We have to live in the real world where everything is not as we would like, but where we do have to live and contribute.

 

All of the above is, of course, just MHO.

[evmori 11]

Sorry NE-IV-88-Beaver. But I'm kinda stuck on this "if you don't do your job, you don't get paid" mentality. No one is entitled to anything.

[BrentAllen 10]

If it were me, I would ask the Scout at a SMC if he thought he had done a good job, and had completed the requirement. If he says no, restart the clock and give him another chance, if he can really do the job.

 

If he says yes, go deeper into the subject. What did he do (#1, #2, #3, etc.) in the position? Did he leave the position better than he found it? Did he set a good example for the next Scout who will be Bugler?

 

I would explain to him that I didn't see anything done, and neither did the Troop. If he wants to claim he held the position and completed the requirement, the other boys in the Troop are going to know he skated by on this one, and he is going to lose their respect. If he wants to follow this path, and he loses the respect of the other Scouts, he may never get offered another POR - and would have a hard time earning Eagle.

 

Make sure he sees the consequences of both paths here. Make sure he takes into consideration how the other Scouts in the Troop will view his actions. Then let him decide what he wants to do.

[Lisabob 13]

On a side note, we have had a number of "buglers" who do their "bugling" on their trumpets. If the kid can at least play trumpet a little bit, couldn't he simply do that?

 

I like Brent's approach to the situation, if you can make it work. It might help you to have this friendly conversation with the dad first though, so that the dad understands that your goal is not to deny the boy rank, but rather, to help develop the boy's character. If you are on the same side it will be a lot easier to work with the boy.

 

 

[NE-IV-88-Beaver 10]

Ed, don't be sorry. I guess I was too subtle but I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly!

[Stosh 3452]

Before anyone jumps all over me for not "following the rules", I handle such situations a bit differently. I don't see anything wrong with the idea that at the SMC the boy says, "Even if I didn't wear the bugler POR patch, I did the job for the past 6 months." That seems to get more traction with me than giving him the patch and then let him sit around doing nothing and then give him credit.

 

I have retro applied POR's to boys that actually did the work when they may or may not have worn the patch. I have one boy that lined up a speaker for last night's troop meeting, got the Village President to speak to the boys about their citizenship advancement, got a tour of village hall, and had the whole evening lined out. He did this without being asked. He's come with various programs for the troop on and off for about a year now. He currently wears no POR patch of any sort. I'm thinking that at his SMC if he asks about Instructor POR, I will gladly retro allow it.

 

I have another boy that reads a devotional or gives a prayer at the end of every closing flag ceremony. He asked if it would be alright if he were to do this. I said it sounded like a good idea. He's been doing this for 3 months now, because he has unilaterally decided to do this, I'll be getting him the Chaplain's Aide patch to wear to make it "official". Does he get credit for the first three months or do we start the counting when he sews on the patch? In my book he's been doing the job, he gets the credit. The patch is not an indication of his doing his responsibility, his actions are.

 

If a boy shows up at a SMC with a convincing argument that he has done the work for a POR whether he was assigned it or not, he gets the credit.

 

Stosh

[mikemayer67 10]

Thank you to all the replies. (I'm sure more will trickle in... thanks to you as well.)

 

Thanks especially to BrentAllen. Sometimes the right approach is so obvious you overlook it. Asking the scout to take responsibilty for his future and not just his past empowers him to have some control over the outcome of this mess and removes him from the status of "victim of circumstance."

 

Because his father is also (apprently) a little torqued about the situation, I will proceed by having a SMC with scout and dad so that we can come to a positive path forward.

 

Thanks again

[NE-IV-88-Beaver 10]

Stosh, welcome to yesteryear! Rewarding them for actually doing something used to be what it was all about, not this current silliness!

 

Knowing your boys, the effort that they put forth, and recognizing them for it is Job One for a Scoutmaster. And furthermore, what rule would you not be following? Good job!!!

[mikemayer67 10]

Editorial correction... I was just informed by the scouts BOR chair that he was not asked to play for the troop, just for the BOR itself.

[rdclements 10]

A bugler can use a trumpet or cornet as an instrument. What most folks think of as a traditional American military style bugle is technically a "field trumpet." The instrument is not an issue.

 

Where is the SPL in this story? As SM, it is not your place to appoint a bugler. It is not you place to "pressure" performance. Your failure was not properly teaching your SPL and holding him accountable for managing his staff.

 

If the scout was not performing in the POR, he should have been counseled (by the SPL) and if failure continued, removed (by the SPL) early in his tenure. For those here who like the employer/employee metaphor - counsel, counsel, terminate.

 

Now that the time is up, you want to penalize the scout for your failure? No way; the scout did what was asked of him - which was nothing. The scout gets credit for the job. Adult mistakes do not result in punitive actions against a youth.

 

Next time, invest some teaching and coaching in the SPL and hold him accountable for holding his staff accountable.

 

-R

[evmori 11]

NE-IV-88-Beaver,

 

Your subtlety wasn't lost on me!

[BrentAllen 10]

rdclements,

Technically, Bugler falls under the direction of the ASPL, not the SPL. Bugler is not part of the PLC.

 

Do we really want to be teaching Scouts that getting credit for doing nothing is appropriate? Hopefully, the ASPL would step in and require the Bugler to do his job. If that doesn't happen, the SM is still responsible to see that advancement requirements are met. He can't just throw it back on the ASPL and say that since the ASPL didn't require anything be done, the Bugler gets a pass on the requirement. The SM is in charge of advancement. The buck stops with the SM.

 

We teach that character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. This can be applied to this situation - character is doing your job even when no one is looking, or demanding it of you. Do we really want to teach Scouts that the only time they need to do their job is if someone is watching over them with a clipboard and stop watch? I sure hope not. I hope we are teaching Scouts to be self-starters, to be motivated to do things on their own. To show some initiative and do what it takes to get the job done, to make a difference.