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Thanks everyone for your responses. we have our regular meeting today. Committee chair is going to be there as is SM and an ASM. CC and I have already discussed this and she wants to talk to the SM and this ASM, which is fine. Son and I are going to talk to them about this today.


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To add to the comments, the job of a Den Chief entails them working with a SINGLE and SPECIFIC Den. That could be a Den of Wolf Cub Scouts, Bear Cub Scouts, or Webelos Cub Scouts. So they really don't work with just any random Cub Scouts, but the Cub Scouts in their Den.


Also, there are different cords for a Cub Scout Den Chief vs a Webelos Den Chief.


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I have to respectfully disagree with you, and note that knocking off four of those requirements for the Den Chief Service Award are actually quite easy for any DC worth his salt.


- Advance one rank? OK, I could probably do that easily within a 12-month period. Not a big deal.


- Serve as a staff member of a Cub Scout special event? Pinewood Derby, Space Derby, Raingutter Regatta, pack picnic - consider that checked off. One day and done.


- Assist three Cub Scouts to become Webelos Scouts? Assist three Webelos Scouts to join a troop? If the DC is doing his job and working with a den of the right age, that comes as part of the natural transition.


- Help to plan and carry out a joint pack-troop activity? Easy-peasy. Plan a low-key campout at a nearby state park and invite the pack out as day visitors for hikes, skill demos and parent info sessions.


- Recommend to your Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, or Venturing Adviser another Boy Scout,Varsity Scout, or Venturer to be a den chief? This is probably the simplest of all.


So that's five, and I only needed four. The other requirements are even easier. Their importance, I think, is in helping to really focus the den chief and the den leaders on what his role should be - not just as a bigger Denner or a gofer. It should pose the same type of challenge in responsibility and leadership that a Patrol Leader or Quartermaster faces.


Personally, I think the DCSA is the minimum that DCs should be striving for. A one-year committment is great, but how much better is going through the entire program with the same group of Cubs? I was lucky enough to have that experience, and it was great.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

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shortridge, while I agree that any Den Chief really committed to the job, would in a years time more than likely earn the Den Chief award. What I was trying to point out was a refute to the comment that a Den Chief could earn the award without even trying, just by serving for a year.


I've known Den Chiefs that did a great job working with their Den at weekly meetings, but never served on staff at day camp or resident camp, never helped out with the Pack's pinewood derby, and so on. Maybe because they weren't asked or didn't know about it. Perhaps the fault of their Scoutmaster or Den Leader who may not have known about the award or the requirements needed to earn it. I've overheard Scouters talking about the DCSA stating that all the boy has to do is work in the POR for a year.


So, agreeing with you that it's an easy award to get for a Den Chief "worth his salt," it still takes work.

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Conversation went well today. SM knew nothing of the new situation and told son to not worry that he would take care of the situation. I was prepared for any arguement and there wasn't one of any kind.


Hope you all have a wonderful Christmas.

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it can actually be a lot harder than you would think depending on the situation. My son served as a den chief last year and did an exellent job as far as the DL he helped said, but he did fall short on earning the award.


from the ones you listed:


Advance one rank - ok this one he did


Serve as a staff member of a Cub Scout special event - he helped attended all but 1 pack event and that was due to it being held at same date as a troop campout.


Assist three Cub Scouts to become Webelos Scouts? Assist three Webelos Scouts to join a troop? We was working with a den that had 5 Webelos I and 2 Webelos II... so he only had 2 boys to help cross over



Help to plan and carry out a joint pack-troop activity? my son is in a troop in a different town, he was working as den chief for the pack in our town that feeds to a troop in our town... so while the parents loved to have a boy scout help their sons learn their skills, they didn't want to participate with an activity with my son's troop.



- Recommend to your Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, or Venturing Adviser another Boy Scout,Varsity Scout, or Venturer to be a den chief? yet this one is easy and he did this too.


I forget what the other ones were, but he fell just 1 short of earning the award. To him, it doesn't matter, he wasn't in it for the award. He wasn't even doing it because he needed it for rank POR - he did it because he enjoyed his time as a cub scout and wanted to go back and teach them skills and get to do some of those fun "kid" things again.


when the 2 webelos II crossed over the Webelos I became Webelos II and joined the new Webelos I'd den and they already had a den chief. He was asked to take on the job of historian and really enjoyed it. He was just elected SPL and is excited about that, and is hoping to get to be historian again after this term.

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IM Kathy, did the Webelos IIs not participate in any troop activity? The requirement is to plan and carry out a joint troop-pack activity; it need not be his troop. If it isn't his troop, there is nothing which says he cannot assist in planning from the pack end.


Our troop assists 2 different packs in numerous activities throughout the year. School Night for Scouting, joint campout (with the Webelos), Pinewood Derby, Blue and Gold (serving, crossover ceremony and clean-up), and once a year we do a large scale service project for our charter partner.


I think that too many leaders and parents read too much into this. It need not be complicated, and joint activities need not be handled like Eagle projects; something simpler is completely effective.


I know this was discussed in another thread, but if the Den Chief Service award is earned, it a great idea to have this presented at a pack meeting (or the Blue and Gold). The service provided is to the pack, not the troop, so it is a great opportunity to have him recognized directly by those whom he has served. We currently have a den chief serving dens in each of our charter's 2 packs. One a Webelos, and the other a Tiger Den. The tiger DC wants to stay with the den through crossover, but he will have to join a Venturing crew to do that as he will age out after the beginning of their Webelos I year.


Our troop is growning, and hopefully we will be able to provide more Den Chiefs to the dens in our packs. It would certainly facilitate the stronger relationship which all the leaders are working to forge.

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Did anyone else read this and have some concerns:


"Not SM who is questioning son. It is a member of committee, advancement chair. Want to defend SM, he has been good. SM approved it during SMs conference, son went before board and they approved, board member who wasn't there (one in charge of records) informed that it wasn't done correctly."


Sorry, but it sounds to me like you have an advancement person who is a little out of control (or doesn't understand how things work).


As I understand it, your son used the position of Den Chief for his POR for rank. The SM signs that off, and its based on your son doing that for the period required. There is NO 'form' or 'worksheet' for Den Chief or ANY position. Once the SM signs off on the position, that's that. So I have no idea where this person is coming from in claiming it 'wasn't done correctly'.


A board of review is an ad hoc group (its created as needed). So you can't have a 'board member who wasn't there'. If this person wasn't present, they weren't part of the BOR. End of story. If this advancement chair thinks that being advancement chair makes them an automatic member of BORs, they are incorrect.


As 'keeper of the records', the only records that are important are the advancement reports sent in to council. So I'm not sure what the issue is or why they are hassling your son or there was some need for a meeting to hash things out (other then to get this person in line).


Now, please understand that my comments are based on your original post and an assumption of what happened based on similiar incidents we read about.


hope this helps.

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The den chief is selected by the Sr. Patrol Leader and the Scoutmaster (assuming they came from a troop) at the request of a Cubmaster. The den chief "reports" to the Den Leader (or Webelos Den Leader) and the Scoutmaster.



I know that in reality, a Scout will step up and ask to be a den chief for den such as such (many times his younger brother's den where his mom or dad is the den leader :( ).


Edited for clarity. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

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Perhaps it was a poor choice of words to say a Den Chief could earn the Den Chief Service Award without really trying. What I was trying to convey is that a Den Chief who is diligent and takes the job seriously can easily, within the one year time frame, complete all of the requirements without ever having read the requirements.


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You understood correctly. This committee member/person who keeps the records is also the person who turns things into council. Therefore no advancement records have been turned into council for this.


I talked to enough people that I think the situation has been fixed and won't happen again. I want my son's situation worked out but I also don't want other boys to go through what my son has. I want the program to be better for all boys involved now and to come.

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Good for your Scoutmaster. It's naturally difficult to deal with all of the volunteer leaders in a troop, and not all volunteers will get the training (or have it take), but unit leaders typically don't have enough volunteers in the first place, so they have to work with those they've got. Sounds like this all got straightened out appropriately.




acco40 writes The den chief is selected by the Sr. Patrol Leader and the Scoutmaster (assuming they came from a troop) at the request of a Cubmaster. This is indeed the official story, but it's even more complicated than that. After the SPL and the SM select him, then he is "approved by the Cubmaster and pack committee for recommendation to the den leader." And presumably he has to be approved by the den leader as well. In the Scoutmaster Handbook a den chief is shown as reporting indirectly to the SM, through the ASM for the new-Scout patrol. Approved by the pack committee? How unwieldy can we make this process?


In our units, it usually works where the Scout asks the SM about it (the SPL typically has no concern about who the den chiefs are). The SM checks with the parents, then the CM and DL. It has been almost universally true for our den chiefs that they have had younger brothers in the pack, but we typically do not approve them to be the den chief for their younger brother's den, especially if they are at all close in age. Sometimes if they are 5 or 6 years apart, the younger brother will really look up to the older brother, and it can work ok.

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