Scout Spirit Work-through Plan

[Twocubdad 665]

I have a 14-year-old Star Scout in the troop with whom I'm having problems. I don't care to go through everything he has done here, but I could cite chapter and verse on a half dozen specifics.

 

As relates to the Scout Law, he isn't trustworthy. I don't trust that I can leave him without adult supervision without him doing something stupid and/or dangerous. I don't trust his truthfulness or sincerity. He is a bully. He will do or say very hurtful things toward even his friends if it buys him a few seconds in the spotlight. He is extremely discourteous and frequently distrupts meetings. He is at least consistent. I know he exhibits this sort of behavior in school, Scouts and other areas. I've discussed his behavior with his parents and they feel he is getting better. I think he's just getting better at it. He's learning to be sneakier and he can work up a tearful apology at the drop of a hat. A week later he's back to his old ways.

 

He will be up for Life soon and I cannot approve his Scout Spirit requirement. As we all know, when we turn a Scout down for an advancement, we are required to provide him with a written reason for his denial, a plan for correcting the deficiency and the procedures for appealing the decision.

 

My question is this: How would you write a work-out plan for correcting Scout Spirit? What would be an appropriate time frame over which to judge living by the Oath and Law?

 

 

 

 

[dg98adams 18]

Sounds more like you should be asking for him to "step up" his Scout-behavior well before he is ready for advancement or ask him to find another Troop. Certainly likely-hood for removal of PL sounds needed. This can remove his POR credit, putting off Life advancement. Just don't wait till the last minute as that's not fair to anyone.

 

Even if you create some sort of "30 day plan" and see improvement...do you want a Life Scout with this history of un-Scout-like behavior...because once he is Life, then it's not that far from signing his Eagle Scout Spirit, Eagle SM conference, and Eagle Project....what will you do then?

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Have the sit down chat with him. And yes, make it a preemptive conference; don't wait until he comes to you for the Life SMC. Talk about scout spirit. Ask him who shows the most scout spirit in the his patrol and also in the troop. Ask him about his scout spirit. How does he say he is doing? Discuss the specific areas in which he appears to be lacking in spirit, and how he can improve that.

 

Ask that he come back to you with a written plan with specific goals in which he can show scout sprirt, not only at troop functions, but also in his daily life, at school and at home. Set up a time frame (with his life requirements in mind) of how he can fulfill this. Put the ball squarely in his court so that he knows it is up to him to wantingly complete the requirement, and get it in writing.

[allangr1024 71]

I have a life scout who came to us as a star scout. He was a tough case, as his parents devorced, then his dad died, and his mom lost her job with the county. He did good the first year, advancing to Life and being elected patrol leader.

 

Then he kind of went downhill. He started acting up in meetings, throwing rocks at people on campouts, and gaining a bad rep for disrespect in the troop. Unfortunately he is a leader of the pack, and the other boys naturally follow and emulate him.

 

I sat down with him to discuss his behavior, and he asked me to tell his mother to let him quit scouting. Why, I asked. It seems he has been in scouting since tiger cubs, and has no more interest in it. He wants to do something else, but his mom is intent on him getting Eagle. My advice at the time was to work it out with his mom.

 

I suspended him for 6 months after summer camp, when his disrespect and rock throwing and general abuse of new scouts got out of hand. I had previously considered his rough past in dealing with him, but at this time I consider him a danger to the troop. His attitude has infected the other boys, and his absense has brought back some degree of normal troop life. But we lost one young scout to his bad behavior, and I almost lost my SPL, who too the brunt of the abuse.

 

His mom wants him to come back and get Eagle, but I don't see it happening. There would have to be a major tranformation in his life before I would sign off on Scout Spirit for this boy. And I struggle over saying that, as I see no one beyond redemption. I now ask this question: is there a time to let a boy go his way? And can a parent push a son too far down the scouting path and put a distaste for it in the boy?

 

 

[scoutldr 732]

How about you tell him this:

 

"As relates to the Scout Law, I don't feel you are trustworthy. I don't trust that I can leave you without adult supervision without you doing something stupid and/or dangerous. I don't trust your truthfulness or sincerity. Your actions show that you are a bully. You will do or say very hurtful things toward even your friends if it buys you a few seconds in the spotlight. You are extremely discourteous and frequently disrupt meetings. You are at least consistent. I know you exhibit this sort of behavior in school, Scouts and other areas. I have discussed this behavior with your parents. You can work up a tearful apology at the drop of a hat, but I do not believe you are sincere, because a week later you are back to your old ways. So, . It's up to you to convince me you are wrong and you are living the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life. Right now, I am not convinced and will not sign you off."

 

As you can tell, I am not one to mince words. Kids of that age do not "get" subtlety or take hints well. Be direct, in words he can understand, so he realizes that his little game is not fooling anyone.

 

Of course, the risk is, you may never see him again, as bullies usually won't play if they think they can't win. But if you are not going to advance him, that may be the result anyway.

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

I agree with scoutldr. You've already spelled out the issue you have with him in your original post. A SMC doesn't have to be requested by the Scout, you as SM can request it. Tell him you know he is approaching his next rank advancement and as things stand right now, you would not be able to sign off on Scout Spirit when that time came. Then repeat some form of what you've said here and give it to him in writing. Before you tell him what is acceptable to you to make amends, get his take on his behavior issues and ask what steps he would take to make amends.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, ditto all the rest of the folks. Sit down and talk to the boy man to man, and tell it like it is. Scoutldr is right, boys don't do subtle, but they grok honesty and courage.

 

I'm always think it's a bit turned about when these things come up as advancement issues, eh? Poor behavior is a behavior issue, not an advancement issue.

 

I think what happens is sometimes parent leaders don't fully take on the Scoutmaster role. Some of 'em just keep being parents to their kid, and so they don't feel it's right or appropriate to address the behavior of other people's kids. Sometimes adults just don't have the gumption to address young teens. So it all just festers and then comes up at advancement, where the adults feel they have more control or something.

 

Advancement shouldn't even be part of da conversation. The conversation is about bullying and trustworthiness and disruptive behavior. And if any of those things are anything more than a minor issue, da conversation is about continued membership.

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad 665]

I appreciate the input.

 

Yes, I've had mutiple conversations with the lad about his behavior in very clear language. His parents are involved and we talk regularly. From a behavior management standpoint, I think we've dotted the "Is" and crossed the "Ts".

 

I agree with those of you who feel advancement should be out of the question at his point. Technically, the kid is on probation with the troop for his last brain-fart. While we don't really spell it out, it is very reasonable that you don't advance while on probation.

 

In some ways I suppose it is a rhetorical question in that the kid hasn't asked for an advancement conference and I don't particularly expect he will any time soo. I guess I'm just looking to Be Prepared. Perhaps a better way of looking at this is what must you do to deny a Scout advancement based on a lack of Scout Spirit and make it stick.

[Lisabob 13]

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the written explanation business only applies when a BOR puts a hold on advancement, and not to the Scoutmaster conference or the SM's decision about signing off on a requirement.

 

Not that it is a bad idea to get this kid to put something on paper for you, Twocub, but I agree with others that the burden is on him to figure out a plan that is acceptable, and not on you to tell him what he has to do (other than in general terms - changing behavior).

 

 

[evmori 11]

Great idea! After all, it is his advancement.

[John-in-KC 311]

In general, I'm in broad agreement.

 

I've seen bullies in action though. This has a potential for life-long behavior. It needs to be worked, hard.

 

After talking to the young man, ask to visit with Mom and Dad. They need to know what you're seeing. They need to be part of the solution. Remember, in a typical month, a SM has eyes on a young man 56 hours or so... Parents, around 200, and teachers, around 200.

 

I specifically agree with SR540Beaver: The young man has to buy in. That isn't always easy.

 

Talk with the SPL, talk with others who attend his school. Make sure you have a good snapshot of the complete young man ... I don't think it'll be different, but this is a time to be sure.

[CubsRgr8 10]

Do not sacrifice a troop (or even one other scout) to try and save one boy!

 

You cannot save him, the troop cannot save him, only he can affect the behavorial transformation necessary.

 

Have an immediate Scoutmaster Conference with him and do what scoutldr says: tell him, word for word, what you wrote in this forum. Then, inform the young man that the next incident at a troop event will result in permanent removal from the troop. Do not give him "three stikes" or "one more chance". Tell him the only improvement plan he needs for follow for scout spirit is the Oath and Law, and review them with him, reading directly from his scout handbook,including the explantion sections(it might be the very first time he's ever read them). Since serving in a POR requires three months, tell him you'll be willing to sign-off on scout spirit three months from today, IF he is stll a member of the troop. End of discussion. Of course, make sure you have the CC and COR on page with this up front, before the Scoutmaster Conference. Harsh? Yes, but sometimes a young man needs a pan of cold water thrown in his face to get his attention.

 

PS Unless you have personally observed his inappropriate behaviors outside of the troop, I would not include those allegations in the discussion.

 

(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

[eghiglie 10]

I go with what cubs8 said.

 

Although there are very few of these kids they cause most of the stress on leaders.

 

Had a boy similar to the boy 2dad has, required the parents to stay at all meetings and outings. The thought BSA meant baby sitter America. He stopped coming. Sad part was he chased away two good kids.