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Is this Eagle Canidate Worthy...Interrogation during EBOR?


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SST,

I don't think some people are proud of the BSA. It's a matter of scouting being pushed on them by parents. and that they' have to get eagle to get their license" or whatever goals the parents palce on them.

 

I think that many beleive Eagle is the "BE ALL END ALL" of scouting.

 

I had a cousin who was a great Scout, set the example, worked with us younger guys, etc, but never made it to Eagle. He had a blast though.

 

Very good friend of mine made it as far as Life. I know he regrets not getting Eagle now, But as I told him to his face, he was one of the best Scouts around as he set the example, mentored thsoe in his patrol when he was PL, mentored the PLs when he was part of the Leadership Corps, and continued on briefly as an adult.

 

I also think some folks don't understand the full concept of the uniform.

 

The uniform does mean a lot. i don't have my 3rd Ed. SMHB inf ront of me, but if I get the chance tonite, I think I might quote GBB on his opinion of the uniform.

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Yah, generally speakin', I agree with EagleDad.

 

I can certainly see, especially for a troop with that kind of expectation, that wearnin' a full uniform to a BOR would be a show of Scout Spirit. Honestly, in a troop like that, a choice not to wear a uniform is clearly a choice, and it's bein' made to be a bit of a rebel. Now, I would still coach that troop that wearin' the uniform should only be one aspect of Scout Spirit, not the be-all and end-all.

 

In other troops, I've seen all kinds of circumstances where it's just fine for boys not to wear uniforms to BORs. Been part of lots of BORs at camp or campouts. They work just fine without a starched-and-pressed set of Oscar de la Rentas.

 

Some units and districts confine BORs to one night a month. Often when a unit or district does that, yeh have some kids who are running from one event or commitment to another. So I've happily helped with BORs where a lad ran in 5 minutes late in a soccer uniform and cleats, or showed up direct from an orchestra concert in concert garb or whatnot.

 

All things in balance, eh?

 

Honestly, by the time we've hit Eagle Rank, I reckon we should be well beyond tryin' to enforce uniform method. By that point, the utility of a kids' program uniform is over. The lad has either internalized the values or he hasn't, and the conversation should turn on those values, not on what he happens to be wearin'.

 

Beavah

 

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Hmmmmm? Wearing a uniform has nothing to do with Scout Spirit? Perhaps not. But I can tell you this......those kids who refuse to wear anything but a shirt and put it on after walking into the troop meeting and take it off before leaving or wear a zipped up jacket over it even in the summer.....have poor Scout Spirit. If they are that embarrased or ashamed to be recognized as a Scout, it makes one wonder if they feel the same way about that dumb old Oath and Law as well.

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BP,

 

I understand what you are saying and agree up to a point. We have 60 boys on our roster. Our troop has a uniform culture. We have kids who have fully embraced the program. We have several who staff summer camp and live a month or more in a uniform. Heck they even individually decided to adopt wearing the knee socks because they thought the old school look was too cool. These are the kids who have accepted and embraced the uniform, are not ashamed to be seen in it in any store or place of business and even post pictures on their facebook and myspace pages. Knowing each of these boys, I've watched them in action at camp, within the troop, out in the community, etc. and can tell you that each one of them shows scout spirit (living the oath and law) in their daily lives. I also see the boys who show up when they feel like it, won't get involved in anything outside the troop and hide their uniform shirt (wearing no other pieces ofthe uniform) under a zipped hoodie even in a meeting full of fully uniformed people in a basement with no windows. These guys are embaressed enough about scouting that they won't even be open about it amongst their scouting peers. I don't see them in action at camp or the community because they won't participate for fear of someone recognizing them and tying them to scouting. I'm not nearly as convinced that they have scout spirit.

 

Just my personal take on it.

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I suppose since we are looking at the legalities I should ask: Does anyone know why the words change from "Complete your board of review" to "Successfully complete an Eagle Scout board of review" for Eagle? Can you simply attend all the lower level BORs but actually have to have "Success" for Eagle?

 

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George,

 

Welcome to the campfire.

 

Eagle is BSA's signature mark. There are things National devotes resources to, there are other things that are "grab and go."

 

Uniforms are, to me, a bit of "grab and go." Yes, there is stuff published on the uniform, but it's minimal. There are not Professionals charged with QC'ing the uniform. There are very few volunteers doing things to help manage the uniform. They're called Commissioners.

 

National, otoh, invests time, money, and people into advancement. Much of that is because many of the Aims are supported by the Advancement Method. Eagle, right now, is the signature rank of Scouting. Ask a non-Scout what Ranger, Silver, Quartermaster, and Eagle are... you'll probably get deer in the headlights looks for all except Eagle.

 

From where I sit, National says "successfully" complete an EBOR because it's protecting the brand name. Crass? You betcha. Real? Ditto.

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Yah, one of these days I'm goin' to make up a special award for "reading way too much into da wording". It could be a knot folks could add to their uniform! :)

 

Honestly, yeh can't go thinkin' there's somethin' special because the Eagle Rank reqs say "successfully" and the others don't. All that means is that someone doin' the writing/typing got a bit more flowery and typed "successfully." Nobody in da National office does the kind of highly detailed continuity edit job that would ever catch those kinds of minor discontinuities. It'd cost a fortune and take forever. As I've said repeatedly, even legislators and regulators who have lots of people doin' detailed reads of precise language (and periods of debate and public comment to catch what they missed) don't catch all continuity issues. And in those things, it counts.

 

Yeh must have everyone on the board give yeh a thumbs up to achieve any rank, from Tenderfoot through Eagle.

 

B(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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SR540

 

I commend your troop on their uniforming pride. As to those few other boys who wear their uniform under a hoodie, lets look at it from another angle, at least they are coming to the meetings, maybe not regularly, and they are wearing their uniform, hidden though it may be,which tells me they are getting something out of your program. Maybe they are having problems at home or elsewhere? Maybe they just need that individual attention or invitation from you to really feel like they belong, and then just maybe at a future meeting they will feel secure enough to take off that hoodie and participate more actively with the troop, who knows one of them may even try for Eagle. All they may need is a little encouragement, just my 2 cents.

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