POR Credit

[gcnphkr 11]

Here is the challenging bit for me.

 

The scout is making a half-hearted attempt at his POR. If he were your employee he would have been fired before a month had gone by. But these are scouts and you understand they are just learning so you (or better the SPL) has a talk with him telling him to start doing his job. He does for about a week, maybe two. Shows up at the next PLC, etc. Then it is back to the way it was. Time for another talk. We are three months in at this point. Do you cut him some slack again, or does the PLC take up the matter of removing him? What if he is getting long of tooth and if he does not complete his POR in time it forever closes the door on an Eagle? He begs and tells you and the SPL that he will repent and do his job. You have compassion on the scout and with a bit of reminding he manages to do his job for another week or two. Of course this doesn't last and we are now five months in. He may be good to go for a Star or have a month left for a Life/Eagle. Do you drop him now? He already has 5 months credit for about 1 month worth of work.

 

So, how about this instead: If we have a scout that has done poorly in the past we put them into a position like Historian or Chaplain's Aide. Easy to objectively tell if they have been doing the job, yet none are critical positions. We tell them, "This is a one month term. If you do your job you will be able to do it the next month, if not then we will find someone else and you will need to wait for something else to open up." Instructor would be easy to do on a month to month basis, especially if there are multiple Instructors.

 

This will not work for SPL or PL. They are elected positions and you don't want to have monthly elections. It would also be difficult for critical PORs like QM, but that should have been filled by someone who will do the job in the first place.

[FScouter 24]

Attendance is all well and good, and surely an effective performance will involve attendance. But the measure needs to be on the level of performance acheived, NOT how many meetings he attended. Every boy in the patrol/troop can attend and warm a chair with his butt, but that has absolutely nothing to do with performance responsibilities of the position.

 

Plus, a goodly part of the position responsibility does NOT require any attendance at all.

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Our troop is now using contracts for our major positions. Here is the one for Patrol Leader, but the others are very similar. It is multifaceted, in that it clearly defines a level of expectation, both in actual preformance, and in setting an example. Notice that this (PL) is a contract between the Patrol Leader and the SPL. Tell me what you think.

 

 

 

 

Patrol Leader Pledge

 

As Patrol Leader, I will do my best to build patrol spirit and lead my patrol by doing the following: (please initial each)

 

___ Wear my uniform correctly at all scout functions.

 

___ Set a good example, and practice the Scout Oath and Law.

 

___ Attend all PLC meetings and complete the Green Bar Training.

 

___ Arrive at all meetings 10 minutes early, and be prepared to remain late if necessary to meet with the SPL.

 

___ If I cannot attend a Troop meeting, I will inform my Assistant Patrol Leader and the Senior Patrol Leader in advance.

 

___ Plan and lead at least 3 patrol meetings or activities, outside of Troop Meetings.

 

___ Keep all patrol members informed of troop plans.

 

___ Assign jobs to patrol members and help them succeed in those jobs.

 

___ Volunteer myself and my patrol as needed to make the troop run well.

 

___ Prepare my patrol to successfully participate in all troop activities.

 

___ Prepare and lead my patrol in activities of service and program as assigned by the PLC.

 

___ Review advancement of scouts in my patrol and sign off requirements whenever possible.

 

___ Work with my patrol toward achieving the National Honor Patrol Award.

 

___ Promote Patrol spirit and pride by proudly maintaining our patrol flag, leading patrol yells, and organizing patrol skits at campouts.

 

___ Fulfill the requirements of this position for 6 months.

 

___ Assist with the training of my replacement after the completion of my term.

 

I understand that the position of Patrol Leader is one of leadership and responsibility. If I fail to fulfill my duties as I have agreed above, I may be replaced before completion of my term.

 

 

Signed: ______________________________________ Date: ______________

Patrol Leader

 

 

Signed: ______________________________________ Date: ______________

Senior Patrol Leader

 

[evmori 11]

Attendance is all well and good, and surely an effective performance will involve attendance. But the measure needs to be on the level of performance acheived, NOT how many meetings he attended. Every boy in the patrol/troop can attend and warm a chair with his butt, but that has absolutely nothing to do with performance responsibilities of the position.

 

Plus, a goodly part of the position responsibility does NOT require any attendance at all.

 

A SPL or ASPL or PL should not "warm a chair with his butt". These youth leaders are the ones that should be leading by example. They need to be there & actually do something when they are. If they are "warming a chair with their butts" then it is time to get them up to speed or remove them from their POR & replace them with someone who will do the job. To be effective, they have to be there!

[FScouter 24]

Most or all of your contract form is found in the Patrol Leader Handbook. Why not give him that instead? Lot's more info and help therein too.

[John-in-KC 311]

The bottom line, Mr Scoutmaster, is you are responsible for the mentorship of the youth. Period.

 

Your first mentoring subject, and the one who should get an awful lot of your time, in program and out, is your Senior Patrol Leader. If he's not learned what right looks like in outdoor skills, in training others, in being able to coach other, he cannot deliver expectations on the front end, keep a weather eye on performance during tenure, and follow-up at the end so the actual "Scout in the bucket" can assimilate what he's learned.

 

If you or your SPL/ASPL's are not mentoring the Scout before he decides to step up to the plate for a position... look first to yourself. How will he know what right looks like if someone has not told him? If he's taking the initiative to step up to the plate, he deserves to have a clue about what's expected of him. FScouter's right, there's a tremendous amount of resources already available for Scouts from BSA: Patrol Leaders Handbook being the first of all.

 

If you and your SPL/ASPLs are not directing, encouraging, and coaching the Scout during his tenure ... look first to yourself. How will your Scout know he's left or right of the azimuth line if someone isn't telling him?

 

If you've not got an intervention plan thought through, at least in general terms, to help the SPL/ASPLs and yourself turn around a failure going to happen ... look first to yourself. You and your SPL should be talking, regularly, perhaps even weekly (albeit away from the meeting place) about each Patrol, their strengths/weaknesses, and the Troop positions... are things getting done (not as they should be, but as the youth in the position can) to be ready for the next campout, cleaning session, whatever.

 

BTW, Mr Scoutmaster, do you know that the Scouts parents are giving him full support as enters upon and does his POR? If Mom and Dad insist Billy be at [ insert other event here ] even though there's a Troop "clean the gear" workday, are they not setting him up for failure? Do they understand that?

 

Finally, Mr Scoutmaster, if nothing is working, do you and your SPL have a way to remove a Scout from his POR, give him a SM conference, and guide him to understanding that the time served will not cut it for advancement? Even though you are the best mentor ever, there are going to be some who just don't get it, and they need the failure to learn. How those Scouts process the failure so that it is a learning event will matter, and reflects on your mentorship.

 

My thoughts from a few mornings of working with people to get jobs done, in Scouting and out.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

FScouter, we do use the PLH extensively, and if you look at much of what is in the contract, it summarizes much of what is in the PLH: taking responsiblity for ones patrol, promoting patrol spirit, and the National Honor Patrol. In addition, this contract was created to address some specific short comings we were seeing in our leaders, adding things like timeliness and follow through. It also has instilled in them a the idea of patrol competitions, which we are bringing back into our troop.

 

Remember, we have one of these for each position in the troop, and aside from the PL and SPL, BSA provides no handbooks which tell the other positions how to act or what to do. And this document is not the only thing on which their preformance is "judged." We provide training to all the leaders, so that they are prepared and have the skills and rescources necessary to succeed.

 

So far, this has been very successful.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, me, I just can't stand "contracts" with youth. I think it's poppycock, and teaches boys the wrong thing. Youth can't legally contract anyway, and none of these "forced" contracts meet da necessary tests of a real legal contract. They're just adult fakery.

 

Besides, do we really want boys to learn that they should do something because of contract law? In that case, they should read da contract carefully and figure out the loopholes. Or do we want boys to learn to do what is right because that's the right thing to do as a citizen and as a man?

 

I vote for the latter.

 

This gets back to the point that the BSA exists only to help the Chartered Organization achieve the Chartered Organization's goals, eh? If you're chartered to Young Trial Attorneys of America, then perhaps contracts for awards are a reasonable thing. By contrast, if you work on behalf of a church, then I reckon they're expecting you to teach a different view of ethics and awards that emphasizes personal duty to God and to service to others.

 

So sandspur, yeh need to go sit with that uninvolved pastor and talk about what he think is important for youth to learn, and structure your program that way. You work for him. Da BSA is just a materials provider. We exist to serve the CO's, they don't exist to provide our program. If they did, then we'd be payin' them rather than vice versa!

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[eisely 13]

This is a difficult topic and I know of no easy solution. I agree that the first obligation lies with the adult leaders, and the SM in particular, to monitor what is going on, to know the strengths and weaknesses of individual boys, and to provide appropriate mentoring and evaluation on a timely basis. How many of us would always measure up to this level of performance with every boy in our troop?

 

I personally have no difficulty with setting metrics for participation or at least showing up. However, such metrics should not be the only consideration in giving credit for POR time served. The primary value of such metrics is that they would at least ensure some level of minimum even handedness in dealing with the boys. I think the boys themselves would be the strongest advocates of this.

 

Clearly the SM or SPL needs to be prepared to evaluate mid term and remove a scout from a POR if warranted.

 

One thing that is missing in this discussion is the impact on the other boys and the program of the troop. For a boy to accept a POR, particularly PL or SPL, and not even attempt to execute his responsibilities is a huge disservice to other boys. This is one of the things that needs to be impressed upon the boys when they are considering taking on a POR. It is not just a matter of adult expectations and rank advancement, but what does or does not happen if the boy does not "actively serve."

 

I would also add that the POR requirement does not require the boy to be either effective or successful. If a boy is really trying and makes numerous mistakes during his term, he should still get credit for the position.

 

We should strive to treat our scouts as individuals, but we still need to have some minimum metrics. If we really do our jobs as adults and monitor and intervene early in a boy's term in a POR, the metrics become less important, but they should still be there as a backstop.

[dg98adams 18]

He has been in position for 5 months....gonna be tough to deny credit now.

 

I know a local Troop that uses "all or nothing" for credit for POR and clearly has the Scout/Parent agree to it before the Scout takes the position.

[Mafaking 10]

 

I think parental support is under reported requirement for a scout's successful POR.

 

Doesn't camp:

PL: Its hard to lead the patrol,

QM: Its hard to over see equipment or see to it that the trailer is loaded and unloaded properly

Historian: Hard to take photos of events, write stories and grab items for a scrap book or news letter.

Troop Guide: New Scout patrol won't lead themselves.

 

Just showing up at events and a good SM will advise and suggest ways to improve at what A POR should be doing doing. Kindeness subtleties is the preferred method for these recomendatiosn. But if mom does not let you camp its hard for the SM to do his mentoring and its hard to learn the skills of leadership when they aren't getting opportunities to use them.

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

We should remember that there is a distinction between leadership positions and the Positions of Responsibility required for advancement.

 

I had a quartermaster a year or two ago who played varsity football. He he attend about half the meetings but generally almost always late, sometimes out of uniform but tried to come to Scouts after practice, if his homework load allowed. He made all the one night campouts, but when we left out on a Friday, he would come by my house on Thursday afternoon (light practice day) get the key to the Scout hut and make sure all the troop gear was pulled out and ready to go. When we returned Sunday afternoon, he was always waiting for us at the hut to help unload and stow the gear.

 

The initiative and commitment that guys demonstrated was a whole lot more impressive than a kid whose mom hauled him to troop meetings every week. It's also an example of how a Scout can serve a Position of Responsibility without attending regularly. Some positions, QM, scribe, librarian, historian can be fulfilled working swing shift, so to speak. We need to be flexible enough the work with guys like this. (And no, I'm not saying you can do these jobs and NEVER show up, only work flexible schedules.)

 

On the other hand, some jobs do not lend themselves to this: SPL, PL, Troop Guide, and Instructor. These jobs are leadership positions (as well as positions of responsibility) and can't be acceptably performed without being on site.

 

Our troop's guidelines state Scouts in PoRs should be present for 70% of meetings and outings. But it is judged on an individual basis.

[Eagle007 10]

Twocubdad, great example. One of my PORs while a scout was as QM. It gave me a healthy respect for equipment accountability and accountability in general especially for a HUGE troop.

 

Our troop is in the process of purchasing 15-20 brand new backpacking tents. When the are delivered they will be marked so that the poles and rainflies will numerically match with the tent that it goes with. Each scout/scout team will be responsible for checking out a tent with the QM and also checking it back in. When the QM goes through each tent to make sure everything is in it and something is missing then the scout/scout team will be responsible for replacing the missing item(s). Accountablility, that's what I'm talking about.

[eisely 13]

Twocubdad,

 

Your counter example regarding the QM position is sound and appreciated. Kudos to the young man.

 

Like many others I am most focused on leadership positions, not the other "staff" positions. Having a PL or SPL who tries to lead without showing up is a prescription for a weak and confused program. All of this shows that effective monitoring, mentoring, evaluation, and possibly timely removal by adult leadership is a large part of making this all work to everybody's benefit, whatever position is involved.

 

One hour a week, that's all we ask.

[John-in-KC 311]

eisely,

 

Agree with what you say, but would you accept substitution of "and as a last resort, intervention or removal" vice "possibly timely removal"???

 

Intervention, to include removal should be our last resort. We adults need to be prepared to help that Scout learn from failure. If not, we've suffered a failure