POR - Why isnt Assistant Patrol Leader included?

[fl_mom_of_2 10]

I just noticed that Assistant Patrol Leader is not listed as a Position of Responsibility. Does anyone know why this is the case? How can bugler be listed but not assistant patrol leader? These are the jobs listed from the scout handbook: Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leder, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop rep, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant SM, chaplain aide, or instructor.

 

 

[scottteng 11]

The BSA chose not to make APL a POR. The assistant patrol leader is chosen by the elected patrol leader. A scout does not need a POR for rank advancement until they achieve first class rank of our three patrol leaders none of them is first class two are on the cusp lacking only a requirement or so. Their are usually plenty of POR's to go around for the boys that need them. This is scouting we make use of every volunteer. Some scouts due to their exceptional skills in one area have a POR created for them ex: bugler or the scribe that writes a monthly newsletter as vs the scribe who just collects dues. The troop can have more than one ASPL, Scribe, Guide, JASM, historian, instructor if the size of the troop warrants. The most underutilized and probably most fun POR is den chief. Every scout in the troop could be a den chief. My son likes his den chief position with the pack a lot more than any of the troop PORs he has held. If you have a scout that is chomping at the bit for a POR send him to den chief training find a pack that meets on a different night than the troop and take him to visit and talk to the den leaders about coming to help them. The cubs actually look up to the slightly older scout much more than his peers in the troop will so it makes learning to lead much easier.

[Lisabob 13]

I think it could be because when the PL is there and doing his job well, there is not much responsibility attached to being the APL.

 

(That said - I've watched a few boys get chosen (and accept) as APL again and again, only to be saddled with most of the work because the PL doesn't show up or do his part. Those guys, I feel kind of bad for. But the solution there isn't necessarily to give credit for being APL, but rather to work on the PL some more.)

[Eagledad 2777]

>>I think it could be because when the PL is there and doing his job well, there is not much responsibility attached to being the APL.

[Beavah 205]

Hiya fl_mom.

 

Another explanation is that the list includes only troop positions, eh? Patrol Leader is a troop position by virtue of a lad's work on the Patrol Leader's Council. All the other positions also serve the troop, rather than just a single patrol.

 

That havin' been said, I've seen what Lisa'bob describes sometimes. I think a Scoutmaster should be wise in his/her use of PORs, eh? If an APL in a unit is functionally a co-PL, a lad should be recognized for that. And if a Librarian or Bugler really don't need to show anywhere near the responsibility of a PL, they should not be recognized for those positions. It's really about kid learnin' and growth, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[CalicoPenn 729]

I was all ready to agree with everything Beavah mentioned - the APL is not a troop position, and only troop positions qualify as POR's (btw - Patrol Quartermaster, Patrol Scribe, etc. don't qualify as POR's either - only Troop QM, Troop Scribe, etc. do).

 

Then he said "And if a Librarian or Bugler really don't need to show anywhere near the responsibility of a PL, they should not be recognized for those positions." Librarian and Bugler are listed POR's. IF your Unit has appointed a Librarian or a Bugler, then they get recognized for their time in a POR, just like every other POR - even if they aren't as heavy on the responsibilities as say, a Patrol Leader.

 

Note the capitalized IF. I don't toally disagree with Beavah on this either - just his approach. If I understand the intent and spirit of what he's saying (and I know he'll correct me if I'm off base), then if there is a concern about a "light duty POR" in the unit, simply don't appoint someone as a Librarian, or Bugler, or Historian, or you get the picture. Just because the POR is listed, doesn't mean you have to make sure they're all filled. Some units simply don't need a Librarian, or a Bugler (though I would suggest any unit of at least 40 boys would be wise to have a Librarian - and that position wouldn't be "light duty" in an Troop of 40 active, merit badge earning boys).

 

Just remember though, once you make the appointment, it counts towards POR time in rank. If you don't want a listed POR to count, don't appoint someone to it.

 

Calico

 

Calico

[Trevorum 24]

Concur with Calico.

 

I'll never forget the SM conference I had with a young candidate for Star. Knowing he was an APL, I started the conference by us together reviewing the requirements. His face dropped when he read the list of acceptable leadership jobs. Knowing that he would now have to start the clock towards Star all over again, he paused and looked up at me and said, "I guess I didn't read the fine print..."

 

Not set back at all, he earned his Eagle a few years later. I've wondered how that lesson may play out later in his life ...

[Gonzo1 10]

Here's an example where the SM's discretion plays a part: My son had been PL, then PL again, then no office for a few months. Elections were just held. My son is BOR away from First Class but the newly elected PL is Scout. He's been in the troop about 1 year but has some "learning difficulties" and has most of T,2, 1 signed off. The SM knows that my son will be doing most of the PL duties.

 

So, where the SM gets to authorize "other position assigned by SM", I think it's OK.