BoR and Committee Member Rant

[BrotherhoodWWW 10]

Who sits on your boards of review? Are they trained to the standard of http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/trainingmodules/board%20of%20review%20training.aspx

 

I'm the CC of my son's troop. I also have years of experience in Scouting both as a youth, early adulthood and more recent times.

 

Our unit had a problem/ complaint with the way in which a board of review was conducted. As the CC I interviewed all parties involved and discussed needed changes. I went so far as to actually find resouces such as the above web page for all of the adults whom may be asked at some time to sit on a BoR and posted a link on our Troop's group yahoo page.

 

Once again last week we had problems related to a board of review. One of the committee members printed from an unnamed internet source a list of BoR questions which all of the other board members were reading from. This week I sat on a BoR and came up one of my own questions pertaining to how the scout got along with his fellow scouts. The other board members questioned me afterwards showing their apparent non-understanding of the BoR trasining document referenced.

 

Now for my rant: Why is it that well meaning adults even if given the opportunity to become educated about the scouting program or some part thereof refuse to do so? Why do so many choose to reinvent the wheel? What have others in my shoes done in these situations? How do we convince others to attend a training session?

[John-in-KC 311]

One of the prerogatives of being Committee Chair is you sign their adult leader apps. You also have some small degree of control over whether or not an adult is rechartered. With those, you can set and enforce standards for Scouters within your unit. I suggest, though, you work with both your COR and your SM in implementing such a course of action.

 

Work with your COR. The Chartered Partner, as the record licensee of Scouting, can mandate training as a condition of entering BSA Scouter membership within your unit. It can mandate training as a condition of retention of BSA Scouter membership within your unit. (I'd suggest a package of YP, MBC, FS, NLE, for all, and TC Challenge or SM Specific as appropriate).

 

You can also limit participants eligible to participate in BORs to those you deem reliable and appropriate.

 

Keep your SM in the loop, so he knows you're trying to raise the bar within the adult world, so the program support you furnish his Scouts improves.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I've found there are a lot of adults who are mediocre at BOR's, eh? Just that in their regular life, most adults don't get to have that kind of discussion with teenagers, or listen to teens at all.

 

Some are awful at it.

 

So don't get your dander up too much, Brotherhood. It's not somethin' trainin' can fix. Da ones who are awful, yeh don't use again. The ones who are mediocre, yeh put up with, and they'll slowly improve. Yeh just make sure there's at least one really good member on each BOR, and that's enough.

 

B

 

[Lisabob 13]

I think Beavah has it a bit wrong at the end there. It is true that many adults don't have a lot of experience with this sort of activity, and that many adults don't know how to listen to teenage boys and treat them as equals, which in many ways a good BOR demands. (as an aside, there are also some teenage boys who don't know how to behave toward adults as if they ARE equals, either, making it that much more challenging at times. But that's part of the learning process for them.)

 

But I don't think you necessarily have to throw up your hands. One thing I've seen is that few units really do train their committee members. They just throw them into BORs and tell them to learn as they go. Yes there may be a link to a website. Yes there may even be a district or council-wide training session (which few will attend). But why not have your committee chair do a training session at a troop meeting, or at a committee meeting? Do it at a time when the committee members are likely to be there anyway, in other words.

 

Why not run some mock BORs, where new (or poorly performing) committee members role play both the boy's position and then also the adult positions, under the tutelage of your best BOR participants? In a lot of cases you will get some good conversation among adults about what is and is not acceptable there, that never would have happened otherwise. And you can also use this as a way to come to agreement on a common standard, on what "outside" questions you as a group feel are appropriate, etc..

 

 

 

 

[Eagledad 2777]

Hi All

 

A lot of the time these things happen because the group and or the group leader doesn't understand the objective. BORs is one of the most common adult discussion questions that comes up in all scouting forums because really it not all that clear why we do it the way we do it.

 

It is nice to have cheatsheets (we did that also), but if the objective isn't clear, it can still be difficult.

 

Barry

[Lisabob 13]

Barry's last comment strikes a chord with me because that's what I see happening in our own unit sometimes. The sum total of the training for new BOR adults in our unit consists of handing them a cheat sheet with sample questions from some websites, and telling them to follow the lead of more experienced adults. Now, some of us have gone on to look for other resources and training, but reality is that most adults are busy people who will not actively seek out such training, especially when someone with more experience than they have, sends the message that they don't really need to anyway. Most of the time this isn't a big deal on the surface because most boys are well prepared and there is no doubt. Further, most boys have primarily positive things to say about their troop experience to date. But when that isn't the case, and BOR members aren't clear on the objectives, you get a mess.

 

 

[Its Me 10]

 

 

I am not sure of the purpose of a board of review. These people are typically moms of boys in the troop with little knowledge of scouting or at least the practice of scouting. So what are they to ask? Life questions or scouting details?

 

I am sick of those cheat sheet. The same dumb questions over and over. When was Baden Powel born? How many years has scouting existed? Where in the world will either of those questions lead to a dialog where the BOR can examine and reflect upon the scouts' character, citizenship or Physical fitness let alone personal growth, leadership and the rest of the great eight?

 

I am not sure about anything the BOR does any more. "Scout have you been working on your building your character? Yes Ma'am I have been character exercising three times a day every day." Pass!"

 

What is a BOR just a pretend tribal ceremony?

 

 

Note to readers:

This is Rant thread as expressed in the Title.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

A BOR should be a lot more than a pretend anything. To assume every Scout who comes up for a BOR will be successful is just plain wrong. While the success rate should be high, not every Scout will pass the 1st time. And hopefully, the reason they pass or not is based on the BSA guidelines not something the unit has made up.

 

When I was the Advancement Chair, I had three committee members who sat on BOR's. The only time they didn't was if the Scout was their son. They felt it wouldn't be fair or might give the impression of impropriety so they voluntarily recused themselves. Having the same three people for most BOR's made each one consistent & fair for each Scout.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Its Me 10]

 

I would venture to guess that the list below is used more times than not during a BOR for First Class. Does this accurately align with the eight methods we are using? I say they anonymously written questions are a at best a mediocre scale to measure unit's or a scout's achievements.

 

 

 

 

On average, how many Troop meetings do you attend each month?

What part of Troop meetings are most rewarding to you?

What is the Scout Slogan? What does it mean for a 1st Class Scout?

Tell us about your last campout with the Troop. Where did you go?

How did you help with meal preparation?

Did you have a good time? (If "No", why not?)

If you were in charge of planning and preparing a dinner for your next campout, what would you select?

As a 1st Class Scout, what do you think the Star, Life, and Eagle Scouts will expect from you on an outing?

Does your family do any camping?

What have you learned in Scouts, that you have been able to share with your family to improve their camping experiences?

Why do you think that swimming is emphasized in Scouting?

Why is it important for you to know how to transport a person who has a broken leg?

Why is it important for you to be able to recognize local plant life?

What did you learn about using a compass while completing the orienteering requirement?

What does it mean to say, "A Scout is Courteous"?

Why are merit badges a part of Scouting?

How frequently do you attend religious services?

Does your whole family attend?

What is your most favorite part of Scouting? Least favorite?

How does a Scout fulfill his "Duty to Country"?

How do you define "Scout Spirit"?

What is the Order of the Arrow?

What is the primary function of OA?

Who was Lord Baden-Powell?

When do you think you might be ready for Star Scout?

[John-in-KC 311]

Thinking some more:

 

B, This is one of those times I agree with Bob White. Training everyone well and truly to standard is a helpful thing. I suspect conduct of BORs is one of several symptoms in this unit.

 

That said, let's focus on the problem. Yes, BSA has an online module, but it's really a POI, not designed for self-study. It seems to be designed for class presentation:

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/trainingmodules/board%20of%20review%20training.aspx

 

This is one of those times where you might want to invite your friendly (we hope) Unit Commissioner to come in and visit with the unit. Give him a chance to show his abilities, give your adults a reason to come to a special meeting of the Committee (we're having focused training on the BOR, and we have a guest teacher from the Council).

 

Like B, though, I think picking those people who you trust to be good BOR members is a good thing. On purpose of the BOR is its your opportunity to look in on the program presented.

[MarkS 11]

Its Me asked, "So what are they to ask? Life questions or scouting details?"

 

Both.

 

When I sit in on a BOR, I think my objectives are pretty much by-the-book. I ask if he's having fun and why, make sure the boys understands and applies scouting ideals in his daily life, make sure he's completed the requirements for his rank advancement (not a retest--some of this might have been answered by the fun question but I usually ask what requirements he liked and didn't like doing and why), ask how he thinks his leadership is doing and to provide examples (trying to find out if the youth leadership needs some advise/help), the classic what should we start/stop/continue doing, and talk about his plan for his next rank advancement.

 

I don't use a cheat sheet for questions. I wing it.

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

A lot has to do with the relationship between the adults and the perceived goals of the troop.

 

I am a SM who has a excellent CC (former SM of the troop). He's works with the adults (including me) and I work with the boys. We don't cross over and interfere in each other's "domain". However, BOR's are where these two "domains" come in direct contact with each other and as coordinators of both we need to be on the same page.

 

It is not a requirement for Scout rank to have a BOR, but my new boys all have one anyway. This serves two purposes. 1) It gives all the new scouts an opportunity to experience a BOR before they "count". That means the boys go in with a more relaxed feeling, no pressure, just so they get their feet wet talking with the adults on the Board. And 2) it gives a chance for the adults to work through any problems/questions they may have conducting a BOR.

 

The PL of the boy and I sit in on and observe the BOR at the Scout level. It's not an official BOR so there's no rules being broken. The PL and I review with the boy afterwards on how he thought it went and the CC and I review with the adults how they thought it went.

 

A huge amount of hassles are avoided using this unorthodox system.

 

Has it made a difference? We have all new adults this year except for the CC and one ASM parent. Feed back from the CC has been along the lines that he has felt the Scout BORs are on what used to be par with the FC and above level of scouting. The boys are relaxed, focused, and articulate. Hopefully this iniitialzation process will instill in the boys a relationship with the adults that carry through the rest of his scouting BOR's.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad 2777]

>>It is not a requirement for Scout rank to have a BOR, but my new boys all have one anyway. This serves two purposes. 1) It gives all the new scouts an opportunity to experience a BOR before they "count". That means the boys go in with a more relaxed feeling, no pressure, just so they get their feet wet talking with the adults on the Board. And 2) it gives a chance for the adults to work through any problems/questions they may have conducting a BOR.

[scottteng 11]

The BOR training is one that is typically offered at a Univ of Scouting type setting. That is where I took it even though it is unlikely I will ever sit on one. I do attempt to explain to the committee members that the Board is their opportunity to audit the program from the consumer(youth) side of the spectrum. Some of the boys have very good suggestions on areas they would like to see improved. The board is not designed for them to retest the scouts knowledge of requirements but to get a sense of the direction the candidate is headed in and if that direction in broad terms is compatible with the scout oath and law.

[Gold Winger 9]

"Why is it that well meaning adults even if given the opportunity to become educated about the scouting program or some part thereof refuse to do so? "

 

Because it is "just Scouts." It isn't anything important like soccer or football. There are no trophies at the end of the season. It is just about camping and a goofy uniform and who needs training for that?