FCFY Calendar

[Beavah 205]

Yah, BW, so share your plan, eh?

 

All we've got so far is that you'd do two NSP's of 4 rather than one NSP of eight.

 

But here's how attendance comes in, eh? If each boy has 75% attendance, there's gonna be a fair number of trips and quite a few meetings where a 4-person patrol "collapses" down to two or even one boy. If yeh have a few boys who only show up 50-60% of da time, then a patrol "collapsing" will be pretty common, eh? So now you're faced with temporarily combinin' patrols, which is a break with da Patrol Method. 50-75% attendance is pretty average for new scouts, eh? If we're honest, some boys are even more infrequent to start.

 

Now, as you've done, yeh could say "our job is only to offer the opportunity." Dat's fine. If yeh teach first aid for snakebite once a year, and assume it's the kid's fault if he wasn't there or didn't understand it da first time is was taught, then yeh do have a plan . But under that kinda FCFY plan, every kid is gonna take longer than one year to complete FC.

 

Which is probably why most of da units that do FCFY actually have most kids completin' FC at around 18 months.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White 20]

You should never combine patrols. If half the members of the new england Patriots do not show up for a game they do not get blended with the other team. You play the game with the team members that are present.

 

This is a basic tenant of the Patrol system. Two people can camp just as easily as six, you just take gear for two rather than gear for six, its no big deal.

 

You keep suggesting that teaching, practicing and application only happens once. Why is that? Where in scouting was that ever taught to you?

 

I disagree that that most troops have scouts reach First Class in about 18 months. Troops either have a plan and know when Scouts will likely advance or they are as surprised as the Scouts are when advancement happens.

 

As far as my written plan, as I explained there is no need to take that much time typing a years plan when the BSA has given units a primer plan in the Troop Program Resources notebooks. (Woods Wisdom was retired long ago, many of its reference materials have been replaced and requirements were outdated).

 

I will share the though process behind the paln. Learning pracyicing and application is not limited to any place or aany time period. Every moment with a scout is a time when you can be teaching a skill or value, practicing them or applying them.

 

Prior to coming to their first troop meeting a scout and his parents should have met with the SM or the ASM for the New Scout Patrol. In that meeting the values and benefits of Scouting should be explained. The incoming scout can be told of the things he will learfn to do the first year and how these skills will be the basis for greater and greater adventures as he grows in the program. The parents should be instructed to get a handbook if the Scout does not aready have one and to make sure the parents talk is down BEFORE the first Troop meeting. That if the scout has that done and reviews the requirements for the Scout Badge he should be able to recieve his Scout Badge at the end of the first or second meeting he attends.

 

We spend the first meeting welcoming the scout and and we have games that teach the Scout badge requirements and test them individually at the first meeting.

 

The Second meeting is spend planning the foirst campout. They are taught through a game and a following instructional period how to pack a back pack. They learn basic health and first aid issues for camping, and they learn the basics of menu planning.

 

The the third meeting we review the packing llsit in the handbook, cover cold weather first aid and health issue, plan a menu for the campout. and show them a really cool rope trick. Any scout who comes to the next meeting able to tie a tautline hitch gets the secret to doing the rope trick.

 

At the fourth meeting prior to the campout we make fire-starters, we review the first aid they have learned in a game they play. We review the menu and make a list of the utensils and condiments that would be need to make the meals. It is explained to them to think carefully because what is not on the list will not be brought. Then we make firestarters.

 

On the campout we will check to see how they packed and dressed, teaqch how and where to pitch a tent, do woods tools instruction and practice, do fire building instruction and practice, take a nature hike for plant and animal identification instruction. Learn how to tie two half hitches and given rope to go put up personal clothes lines using the two half hitches and the Tautline they had already learned. Given a tour of a model campsite and taught how to pitch a tend.

 

During the next month, as they learn a little more first aid and start their fitness training, they will play games that allow them to practice the skills they learned at the camp out.

 

Do you see how using games, instruction, activity, and the outdoors it will take very little time for these scouts to not only understand and gain competence in the requirements of Tenderfoot but by the end of the third month they will have a few Second and First Class Skills done as well?

 

It's about making learning fun, giving opportunity for practice and application, but most of all making your time with a scout productive and meanigful.

 

If you are only using 12-15 minutes of a 90 minute meeting to teach scouting then shame on you.

 

I hope this helps you understand program planning for the First Year Scout a little better.

BW

[Beavah 205]

I hope this helps you understand program planning for the First Year Scout a little better.

 

Yah, sure, it and some of your other postings helps me understand your approach to such plannin', eh?

 

Any others who want to share?

 

Beavah

 

[Venividi 35]

Whats with the recurring theme of "shame on you/scout leaders" that is creeping into these threads? Aren't we all here to share our experiences and learn from each other, and maybe work towards (slowly) making the troops we work with better? Why should someone that does something differently, or even wrongly, be shamed?

[Bob White 20]

Hi Venividi

 

There seems to be a rash of blaming a weak unit program on a lot of things and people other than the person who is responsible for the unit program. Would you agree that there is enough training and enough resources that identify the Scoutmaster as responsible for the troop program that no trained leader should believe that anyone or anything else is responsible?

 

If a person has that responsibility as well as a responsibility to the scouts in the unit, yet doesn't lead a program that is FILLED with activities that teach and apply the skills, should feel a little bad about that? I never said it was any one specific, I said that a leader who did that should be ashamed.

[Venividi 35]

Bob W.,

 

I guess I just look at situations from a different perspective. I dont think that it helps to tell volunteers that they should be ashamed of their volunteer efforts. People are in differing places on learning curves. Could be that someone is inexperienced, or experienced in a different area. Or struggling to find ways to create a good program. And needs some ideas that they haven't thought of, or is struggling between the balance of implementing a program and guiding the PLC in taking the reins. Why should they be ashamed of that? Especially if they are trying to learn to become better volunteers?

[fgoodwin 23]

Our troop does not use the NSP, but we do assign an ASM who is responsible for the new boys during their first year in the troop. He is responsible for seeing that new boys advance and that they are getting the opportunities for skills instruction, testing & sign-off in their patrols.

 

Its not his job to ensure that every new Scout makes it to FC in the FY -- only that they get the opportunity (via scheduled monthly campouts, skills instruction at troop meetings, etc.) to advance in a year.

 

After the first year, the boys are treated like all the other boys in the troop, and the new incoming cohort is assigned another ASM to take them through the first year.

 

The ASM for the new boys doesn't plan their program -- he just tracks progress and "encourages" boys who may fall behind. But if a parent holds a boy out of summer camp or other monthly campouts, it increases the time for him to make FC beyond the FY -- that's no big deal in our troop.

 

We award a FCFY patch for those who make it, but we don't stigmatize those who don't -- we let them advance at their own pace.

 

We encourage FCFY because we've been told (and I tend to agree) that the boys who make FCFY tend to stay in the program longer than those who don't.

 

Bottom line: we don't have a separate and distinct FCFY program, per se -- the new boys follow the program as decided by the PLC, SPL and SM. But we do assign an ASM to "ride herd" over the new guys to see that they get advancement opportunities; its up to the boys to take advantage of those opportunities.

[greenSM 10]

Isn't most of this discussion based on the FALSE assumption that any Scout should be First Class within a year?

 

Absolutely any well run Troop should be ABLE to advance MANY of the boys through 1C in 12 or so months. Some will go faster, some will take lots of time and patience. Why all the rancor over the purely subjective "one year plan(s)?"

 

My experience has been Troops that cling to the FCFY idea begin churning out Scouts that have little or no real knowlege of the information. My barely 12 yo nephew, for example, is 1C and working toward his Star. And yet he cannot tie anything except a square knot (and then only with rope in hand), cannot use a compass, thinks a band-aid IS First Aid, can barely dog paddle across his family pool, and cannot walk more than a few yards without stopping to play a video game. If he can stay awake through enough meetings though, he will get enough MB to make Eagle.

 

Advancement is not only part of the Methods, it is an extremely important part of Scouting. FCFY is, however, NOT.

[LongHaul 10]

I am again tempted to explain the usefulness and wisdom in Jeff Thompson's plan. (See Brent Allen's early post) Every time I do I get rebuttal as to how unnecessary it is. A written plan is a plan that can be shared and followed. It can be adjusted and refined. It can be used to identify strong and weak points on our training approach. It can benefit the trainers and trainees. I can't find anything harmful or over taxing about it. Repetition works best if the task is repeated the same way each time. Quality in training is enhanced if the training is regulated. Doing things off the top of our heads is easy but it is the best way?

 LongHaul

[Beavah 205]

Yah, LongHaul. It took me a while to work my way through da document BrentAllen posted, eh? That's quite a piece of work. What a great resource... a whole formal school curriculum for T21. Clearly done by a professional educator. Learnin' objectives and alignment with standards and everything! Well laid out lecture-demonstration outlines. Plus some regular school quizzes on requirements and lesson evaluation forms to be collected by Troop Committee Administrators. Even a sample school calendar and lesson progression.

 

Only thing it's missin' is da standardized No Scout Left at Second Class exam!

 

Do yeh know its terms of publication? Is it copyable?

 

I think such school curricula do suffer in some ways. They assume 100% participation (or students makin' up missed work) like in school, and 100% retention. Schools are willing to give kids a "C" and move on, where in Scoutin', I think our purpose is to let each boy work at his own pace to get an "A". And this makes Advancement an awful big chunk of da program time. First Aid Basics II is a lecture-demo that's 8 major points and about 40 minor points long! In one meetin' night for 10-11 year olds!

 

While I'm tempted to dig up B-P's essay about trenchin' on da work of schools , this is still a very nice resource, and a perhaps a good fit for some programs who have da educator talent to pull it off. Probably a great Scoutin' home schooler resource, too.

 

BW's progression had that same character, eh? But even more was put in a single meetin'. In his second meetin' for example, kids are taught campout planning, how to pack a backpack, basic health issues for camping, basic first aid for camping, and the basics of menu planning. Dat's conservatively about 10 times more than any of the BSA's Program Features do in a single night.

 

Yah, I like fgoodwin's notion of usin' an ASM or a TG as a sort of "guardian angel" for new guys and helper for their PL's in a traditional patrol structure. Sometimes, if a troop is too big or the older kids get too focused on their own adventures, the presence of such a person really helps bring the conversation back around. New guys also have some "backup resources" to turn to. A nice combination, eh?

 

Any other FCFY contributors out there? Those were several new ideas or spins for me.

 

I think we're seein', though, doin' this and meetin' my initial conditions is really hard in practice.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White 20]

BW's progression had that same character, eh? But even more was put in a single meetin'. In his second meetin' for example, kids are taught campout planning, how to pack a backpack, basic health issues for camping, basic first aid for camping, and the basics of menu planning. Dat's conservatively about 10 times more than any of the BSA's Program Features do in a single night.

 

Actually its not but even if it were is there a problem with having a more active program? Remeber the meeting outlines in the Trrop Program resources are a primer. A first year Scouter and a young PLC would be fine with those plans. It is designed a a beginning level. Once a unit has seasoned leaders with ample resoures you can get a lot more into a 90 minute meeting. After all just as scouts get better with their skills with practice... a leader should get better in their skills with practice as well.

 

Not sure how long it takes some leaders to teach 3 basic skills (pack a back pack, cuts and burns, personal hygiene). But I know a lot of Scouts and Scouters who can easily cover those in a fun way in the course of a 90 minute program and have the information retained.

 

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, BW, the thing is that there are other methods, eh? Da reason why Program Resources limits the instruction time and number of topics is to allow for those other seven methods. Interpatrol competitions and Patrol Meetings and uniform inspections and a game or two and flag ceremonies and all that.

 

I'm sure lots of folks can "cover" or teach a mess of topics in 90 minutes and even be very entertainin' and engagin'. I just know precious few lads who can sit through it. Our role isn't "covering", it's "uncovering" and lettin' kids explore. Our role ain't teachin', it's helping kids learn. Scoutin' is a game, not a course.

 

Just a different perspective. As an adult who has been backpacking since what da kids call the Dawn of Time, I know every time I get a new pack, it takes me at least an hour or two with all my gear in da basement packin' it and unpackin' it and repackin' it before I've learned what I think will work. Then I go outside and go hikin' and have to do it all again 'til I get it right! Somebody jawin' at me and demo'ing packin' his own pack is in da "no help whatsoever" category.

 

There might be a reason Program Helps are written da way they are, eh?

 

B

 

[Bob White 20]

beavah,

You are suggesting taht there are no teaching or advancement opprotunities to be done while participating in opening or closing ceremonies?

 

Are you suggesting that there are not games that can be used to teach practice, test, or provide discovery moments for learning? How to do those very things are part the Scoutmaster Assistant Scoutmaster Bsic training course!

 

Sure it may take you awhile to personalize your many packs. But if you check out the Boy Scout Handbook it can teach you some basic information of common characteristics for packing that may help you, and it gives you a handy packing list for personal, patrol, and troop gear. All the BASIC information that the Scout needs to learn at this entry level in scouting is the information in his handbook. Understanding and usie of the Handbook information is what is required for his advancement, not knowledge of your challenges packing your own gear.

 

Isn't that right?

 

BW

[Its Me 10]

 

 

Bob White, I am guessing that you have recently accepted the position as ASM for a new scout patrol. If so congratulations. I believe you have a lot to offer.

 

However, you don't have 90 minutes at a troop meeting to teach skills. By the book (Program Features, meeting planner) you have 20 minutes for skills instruction. Opening-closing ceremonies, patrol meetings and inter patrol games consume the rest of the time.

 

On a separate patrol outing on a Saturday or Sunday and sure 90 minutes of instruction can be held. I would still break this up with some games and stuff.

 

But 90 minutes of pure instructions on a school night, Yuk!

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah 205]

You are suggesting taht there are no teaching or advancement opprotunities to be done while participating in opening or closing ceremonies?

 

Well, I've been around a while, and I can't say that I've ever seen an opening or closing that taught "campout planning, how to pack a backpack, basic health issues for camping, basic first aid for camping, or the basics of menu planning" which were the topics being "covered" that second evening.

 

Yah, I can imagine a very fun meeting where in da middle of the opening, a guy in a ski mask comes in, opens fire with a plastic gun and some plastic throwin' knives, and all the PL's and SPL end up lyin' on da floor bleeding from moulage wounds. Now that would be fun.

 

I reckon it wouldn't leave yeh much time for how to pack a backpack, though .

 

Beavah