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Our old scoutmaster stated at the last court of honor that two boys had both achieved the rank of star and that he had just not submitted the paperwork. The two boys both consider themselves star scouts and so do their parents. The scoutmaster also stated in front of a group of people that one of the boys had earned the camping merit badge but that he had not entered it. I am sure that this boy did meet the scoutmasters expectations for earning this merit badge as he has a brother that is a year younger that has the badge.

 

I have told everyone in the troop and all parents that we will be following exactly what is in the book for advancements. I have gone over the advancement requirements for each rank with the boys and told them that we will follow them. We have had boards of review for rank advancements and I am doing scoutmaster conferences. Going foward we are fine. I have heard some complaining from parents and scouts but, I have not had anyone quit on me because of this.

 

I think everyone in the troop is tainted to some extent, even my son. He has two advancements that never had boards of review. I asked the SM and the CC about this and the SM said "BOR is a waste of time. Boy always passes so I just stopped doing them" CC said we can make changes when old SM retires. We have changed but, we are not going back and requireing BOR for all scouts that have previously earned a rank. Only difference with these two boys is that advancement was a verbal and not entered.

 

I have told my son that if he becomes an Eagle he will need 22 merit badges as the one merit badge he earned from old SM didn't cover all of the requirements. He seems OK with this. I expect more from my son than I do from other kids and I don't expect them to do the same thing.

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Joe,

Who was the MBC? Was it the old SM or did they go to a MBC outside of the troop. If the Scout saw an outside MBC, there should be a paper-trail, the blue card. The Scout should have his third of the card, if the old SM or Committee Member handling Advancement gave it back to him. If they didn't and no one can find it, have the Scout contact the MBC and ask him/her to re-issue the lost card. The MBC should have their third of the original card.

 

As for online advancement entry, ask your Council for a copy of what they have received. You need to make sure that everything under the previous watch is correct and up to date, especially for your future Eagles. You don't want a almost 18 Eagle candidate finding out that he isn't eligible for Eagle because of shoddy record keeping by the previous administration. You need to find the potential problems know and get them fixed before the District, Council or National finds them and rejects the application. Make sure you check the time requirements on the POR's also. Make sure that the Scouts have the correct number of Eagle required MB's for each rank, 3 for Star, 7 for Life and 12 for Eagle. Believe me District and National will check dates to make sure that they correlate.

 

Good luck.

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Joe,

 

At this point, I think a good thing for you would be to buy a cup of coffee for the District Advancement Chair and your Unit Commissioner. Explain what you found, what you're doing to fix things, and how you want to go forward.

 

I would hope the DAC and UC will have some good ideas to help you. I would also hope they'll back you if there are some sticky wickets with parents in the coming weeks.

 

At the end of the day though, please take a moment to inventory how your Troop does against all 8 Methods of Scouting. Find out if there are other challenges you'll have to deal with. Build yourself a plan to eat the elephant, one bite at a time.

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After reading this thread I am beginning to think you guys are besmirching the reputation of a fine scoutmaster who recently retired. He volunteered to be scoutmaster and through his hard work managed the scouting program for the boys in his troop. So he didnt follow the BSA polcies on advancement, policies we know are written by amateurs and since only 20% of all troops do Boards of Review correctly in the first place, why bother having them at all? As long as the intent of the policy was accomplished why worry about what happened in the past. Talk to the District Advancement Chair and Unit Commisioner? aw c'mon we know that the boys can't be bothered by what a bunch of old coots think and say and real scouting occurs at the unit level. There is no problem here, just remember the old scoutmaster for what he gave scouting and remember his legacy.

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>>>I have told my son that if he becomes an Eagle he will need 22 merit badges as the one merit badge he earned from old SM didn't cover all of the requirements. He seems OK with this. I expect more from my son than I do from other kids and I don't expect them to do the same thing.

 

Given that the official record says that your son earned the MB, that you are not proposing to revoke the MB, and that you are the only one holding your son up to a higher standard, couldn't your son just properly do the requirements for the badge that he didn't do before? If the requirements are not something that you yourself can verify, then you'd need to *very tactfully* ask the MB counselor to verify those requirements. (In particular, you would need to avoid sounding like you were accusing the MB counselor of not having done a proper job before, assuming that it is the same MB counselor who signed off originally. ) Then your son will have completed the requirements as he should and the only slight irregularity is that he received the badge too early.

 

I am a Webelos den leader, and this is basically how I handled a similar situation. One difference was that the "badge" (pin) was awarded early because of my own mistake, not something done by someone else. I had thought that a scout had done a requirement for a Webelos activity badge on a family camping trip, but I found out after the pin was awarded that I did not correctly remember what his mother told me, and that the scout had not completed the requirement. I did not want to take back the pin, particularly since this scout is mildly autistic and would be more likely to be upset by that than most 10 year old boys. Also, I knew that he could do the requirement and have the badge properly earned by the next pack meeting, so I'd just be giving it back to him at the next opportunity to do so. Since it wasn't a difficult requirement, I just asked the mother to make sure her son did it as soon as was convenient. This mother is completely trustworthy, so I knew that she would make sure it was done.

 

While I understand your wanting to hold your son to a tougher standard than you do the rest of the scouts in the troop, I think you need to ask yourself if that is really fair. In fact, the GS leader materials specifically warn leaders to be aware of this tendency and to try to avoid it. It's similar to the difficulties of being a school teacher with your own child in the class (unavoidable if it is a special class not being taught by another teacher). I think that being a scout leader's child tends to mean that they already have to do a lot that other scouts don't. For instance, they usually have to get to meetings earlier and stay late. They may end up manning a product sale booth for more than one time slot, while the other scouts do only one slot. They are more likely to be forced to go to a scout meeting or event when there is another event that is at the same time. I try acknowledge to my own children that I am aware of the extra stuff they have to do or put up with and that I am proud of them for understanding that sometimes *someone* has to do something extra and that it is better to be the kind of person who volunteers to do that than to be the kind of person who always lets someone else do it instead. I'm not saying that there aren't also advantages to being a scout leader's kid, but I think that leader's should think twice about requiring anything of their own child that they wouldn't not require of other kids.

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GS-CS leader, good point!

One I am aware of and one my son knows I TRY to stay on the right side of.(I try so hard that by the end of some campouts he's smothering me trying to get some attention) But I would almost wonder(sometimes)if being the SM's son shouldn't be it's own POR. Because of the unavoidability of it being different for him sometimes.

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I have to agree with OGE. You know, it could be that in that part of the country people are just a little different. Cookie-cutter rules dont always work and we have to be able to adapt to local needs. Thats why the SM, the troop committee, even parents are encouraged to interpret the BSA program as needed. Besides, it could be that the chartered organization has certain rules we arent privvy to, and we all know that CO rules trumps the BSA program. After all, its for the boys and we all know those pencil pushin' geeks in Irving dont know nuthin except how perpetuate their own existence and steal money from Scouts at every opportunity.

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Yah, I agree with OGE, too, eh?

 

I wouldn't take it out on the SM. I'd like to have a word or two with the committee and the UC, but I'd refrain from that, too.

 

It is what it is. Nuthin' to be gained in assigning blame or makin' a fuss. The kids and families love the old SM enough to stick around eh? Yeh pick things up and you move forward. This stuff happens a lot more frequently than folks in long-time, well-run, fastidious units imagine.

 

Get with each kid, figure out where the kid is "at", confirm it with the old SM, and file the paperwork. Then work on upping the quality of your committee and work with the kids to introduce them to the idea of BOR's goin' forward. Bring in a few Scouters from other units to help "coach" your committee members through their first BOR's.

 

Plan where yeh want to be with this troop in 5 years. Then lay out a nice, gradual plan to get there that won't ruffle any feathers or upset any kids, and that addresses the most important things for the kids first. Recognize if you do too much too fast, you'll be eaten.

 

And don't sweat the small stuff. Have fun with the job, and be a good mentor for the kids. Rebuild expectations and committee performance with your "spare" energy. Don't let it take away from the fun of playin' and campin' and learnin' together.

 

Beavah

 

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If there are dates recorded for the BOR and the SC, don't sweat the small stuff. Those items are a "check-in" point with the Scout on how he's doing personally, and for the committee to be checking in with how the program is running.

 

If you were talking about merit badges being signed off by unregistered counselors or being handed out without requirements being completed, I'd be worried...

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Good Day,

 

I've seen my fair share of advancements that were pushed through; either due to lack of training by those who sat on the BOR or the SM or in some cases I'm convinced it was outrite deceit. In either case, you really cannot go back and undo the advancement or awarded MB. I understand that the paperwork has not been done, but I'd either get the old SM to sign the advancement form and get it turned in to Council or do it myself if I couldn't get him to do it.

 

If there was no Scoutmaster conference for these two boys'and you're the new SM, you can always call them over one at a time for a SM Conference now. You may have already told the boys and parents how things are going to work from now on, but perhaps it will help prepare them for future SM Conferences; after all they are not used to them. In fact, it might be a good idea to pull all the boys aside to give them a SM Conference. Conferences do not have to be used exclusively at an advancement. You can use a Conference anytime that you feel you need to talk to a Scout. Since most or all of the boys have no idea what it is like to sit in a BOR either you could take some time to explain to them at some point what a BOR is like.

 

Just a few thoughts for what their worth...

 

ASM59

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What was promised and what was awarded before are done deals.

 

You need to do things correctly going forward and it sounds like you have that under control there as well.

 

What you need to do is check the Council ScoutNet records to make sure they are correct and that the troop records and the boys records match.

 

Get an advancement summary from Council and then spend the time to sit with each boy and have him check his record against what has been recorded at council. Or better yet, delegate this to your new Advancement Chair!

 

As far as your son and the badge he knows he didn't really earn, once it is awarded and recorded, it is a done deal. Rather than expect him to do an extra one just for you, sit with him and help him finish the requirements he didn't do at the time.

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Excellent thread, good discussion.

 

The idea of making things right going forward and treating events of the past with friendliness, courtesy and kindness seems very appropriate.

 

One other thought:

 

There are 8 methods of Scouting. Advancement is only one and not necessarily the most important one.

 

Most units that I know shatter the uniforming method. (Our Troop uniform is Boy Scout shirt and bluejeans.) Isn't that about the same as not having SM Conference and BOR?

 

Many units shatter boy leadership either intentionally or unintentionally.

 

There are other methods that are not followed particularly well or are even shattered.

 

Each unit works its own balance on how they will prioritize the various methods in order to accomplish the aims of Scouting their way. Just as the boys promise to do their best, we as leaders do the same. We don't promise to be perfect or to be successful; just to try our best.

 

When a new leader comes in, he or she learns about and looks at the methods and reprioritizes. That doesn't make what came before invalid. It doesn't make what the Troop across the street does differently invalid. It's just different.

 

The fact that advancement gets a lot of press and has a lot of rules and scrutiny doesn't change that it is one of 8 methods, no more and no less.

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