Colloquy, The Scoutmaster and the Merit Badge Process

[John-in-KC 311]

I wrote,

Advancement policy requires the SM to approve of the selection of the MBC, and to give his permission to start MB work.

 

then eolesen wrote back to me...

Are you certain about that? The signature by the SM is permission to start work, and he's to give the name of a registered MBC, but I don't know anywhere where it is stated that the SM has to approve the selection of the MBC.

 

e,

 

I decided to take this outo of the original thread because that Scouter has bigger fish to fry, and decisions to make, as Beavah outlined. The original thread is now a back-end problem, but it started from a front-end problem. I think our conversation is exclusively about the front end.

 

OK, From the 2007 printing of Advancement Committee policies and procedures #33088. This is in the text box labeled Merit Badges on p 26:

 

The steps to follow in the merit badge program are outlined in the current Boy Scout Requirements.

 

So, the policy reference book makes direct reference to another policy book. Thank the Good Lord Requirements is online:

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/mb/index.html

 

Here's what it says, verbatim:

Pick a Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. (Emphasis added)Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you.

 

Scout Buddy System. You must have another person with you at each meeting with the merit badge counselor. This person can be another Scout, your parents or guardian, a brother or sister, a relative, or a friend.

 

Call the Counselor. (Emphasis added)Get a signed merit badge application from your Scoutmaster. Get in touch with the merit badge counselor and tell him or her that you want to earn the merit badge. The counselor may ask to meet you to explain what is expected of you and to start helping you meet the requirements.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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To me, these three references say:

 

1) ACP&P, as a BSA policy document, defers to BSA Requirements to be the policy document for the "eaches" of the advancement program.

 

2) BSA Requirements gives responsibility and policy deference to the Scoutmaster: He/she determines an appropriate MB Counselor for the Scout. Now, how he exercises authority given him in discharging that responsibility is another ball of wax.

 

3) The Scoutmaster, when he signs the MB Card (whatever form it takes) gives his explicit approval to the Scout to begin work on the MB.

 

So, have I made sense? Am I stringing together these pieces of policy improperly, when I said: Advancement policy requires the SM to approve of the selection of the MBC, and to give his permission to start MB work. If so, what are your references in the process?

 

With National getting broken and stupid in some areas (I never said I LIKED the definition of Active, I reported it as what it was), we volunteers need to understand this stuff. The youth are supposed to have fun learning. We're the ones who get to make sure they are enabled for payoff from the Game With a Purpose.

 

I look forward to your continuing the colloquy

 

YIS John

[scottteng 11]

Real world we are apt to give permission to anyone for any badge their little heart is inclined to work on. Hardly any of the boys except those in a real stretch run for Eagle work on any MB outside of summer camp or a MBU setting. We do offer counsel along the lines of thats great that you want to work on the composites MB to make your own skate board but how about taking a closer look at the Eagle required list also cause you are just one Eagle required away from Star. I thought I was a jack of all trades master of none until I read about some of these boys that earn all 130 MB's.

[Beavah 205]

Hardly any of the boys except those in a real stretch run for Eagle work on any MB outside of summer camp or a MBU setting.

 

This is sadly true, eh? But it ain't the real Boy Scouting program.

 

Yah, KC, it goes even further than that, in that the instructions from National to the councils are that the list of MBC's is a restricted document, because it is the responsibility and prerogative of the SM to select the counselor and approve the boy for a badge. Da boys aren't even supposed to have access to the contact information for other counselors, to avoid an "end run."

 

That's become more important as some CO's have different YP and program rules that require counselors to meet additional CO requirements.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC 311]

B,

 

Restricted document, you say?

 

Not locally, it shouldn't take a tenderfoot with a bit of internet savvy more than, oh, 3 minutes to find the online MBC database on our Council website.

 

Sheesh...

[LongHaul 10]

I came up against this from a different angle. As an MBC is would like for the boy to talk with me before he begins his work, particularly with regard to Personal Management. When I was presented with work done prior to our first meeting, said work was in my opinion unacceptable. After appeals and problems with District and Council the response we got from National was the the information on pages 22 & 23 of the Requirements book are procedures NOT requirements. Said requirements are found listed under each Merit Badge Heading. The boy is REQUIRED to complete the REQUIREMENTS as listed, not following procedure is not in it self reason to deny a merit badge. Because I refused to issue a merit badge there was no grounds for an appeal according to National, I can not be forced to accept the work but I can be removed from the list of MBCs. I'm still a counselor, the boy GOT the badge from someone else who is also still a counselor.

LongHaul

[eolesen 10]

This topic came up on another forum last month, and there were lots of passionate arguments on what the right and wrong way. If the wording were as explicit as some interpret it to be, there'd be a lot less arguing over it...

 

If you go read a blue card, the Scout handbook, and the advancement guide, neither of them really says who is responsible for picking the counselor. They only say that the the SM will give the Scout the name (and I believe at least one publication has said "name(s)") of a registered counselor.

 

None of the forms say who is responsible for filling out the counselor's information on the inside of the blue card. It could be the SM, it could be the MBC, it could be the Scout.

 

So, if you as a SM give the boy the name of a counselor, but he works with another registered counselor, are you going to deny him the badge? Probably not.

 

Troop policy may dictate here, but it's not as clear cut in the program documentation as some might want it to be.

 

Personally, I only care that they work with a registered counselor. If I don't like a particular MBC, it's not my place to steer the boy away from them -- it's possible that they have better chemistry and the boy will learn better from that MBC. Likewise, I may think one of the MBC's is the best one ever, yet if the boy had a bad experience with that leader at one point in his Scouting career, it's not my place to force the boy to work with that adult.

[Hunt 11]

This topic has been discussed here before at some length. It seems to me that the problem is that the language quoted is suggestive, but not really clear, about what the SM's role is in selecting counselors. It says nothing about how the SM is to pick a name--whether he can or should consider quality or anything else. The language describes the process, but it really doesn't say anything about who has authority to make decisions in that process. It's clear that the SM has an obligation to help the scout identify a counselor--but that's all that's really clear.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

May I add that if a Troop identifies a counselor who is lax, then that troop should tell the District Advancement Chair of the problem, just not sending the counselor boys "from the troop" is not enough.

[Eagledad 2777]

Hi All

 

I'm just glad folks here agree the SM signature comes before the scout starts work on the badge. That used to be a challenge for many.

 

Of the many thousands of cards I signed, I can't recall a scout every really caring about the MBC. Now I had scouts with neighbors or family friends wanting to be a counselor, so we had them come in and do the paperwork and also get to know a little more about them and their MB skills. The only issue we ever had was the dad who wanted to do all his sons badges. There is know restriction against that, but we had a lot of heavy discussions to why it wasn't going to fly well in our troop. Most folks are reasonable a will do the right thing. They just need to learn why?

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[skeptic 990]

In relation to the boy going elsewhere when challenged by a counselor. Ideally (!??) if a boy wants to change counselors, the leader will challenge him as to why; and a new counselor will hopefully determine why as well and make sure the requirements are met. I personally have had a couple of calls to switch to me from someone else, and I try to make it clear to the scout that I will not let them skate. One came to me, the other decided I might be harder than his first contact.

 

Unfortunately, we all know there are authorized counselors who are really more signers than mentors.

 

As Beavah points out, we do what we can to do it right and enhance the boys' experiences.

[MarkS 11]

Beavah said, "Yah, KC, it goes even further than that, in that the instructions from National to the councils are that the list of MBC's is a restricted document..."

 

If true, my council isn't following the instructions.

 

http://www.stlbsa.org/Advancement/Merit+Badge+Counselors+Directory/

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I checked the BSA publication 33088, Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures. In the Section on the responsibilities of the District Advancement and Recognition Committee it lists that Districts recruit, and Train merit badge counselors and maintain a current list of merit badge counselors. The third paragraph starts:

 

"The district or council list of counselors should be reproduced for distribution to troops and teams. When changes are made, these should be sent promptly to the units (or listed in the council bulletin) so that all units have readily available the names, addresses, and phone numbers of counselors. Lists are updated at least once a year, usually when councils and districts reregister."

 

Doesnt say these are to be restricted. As keeper of the merit badge list for the District I serve, I need to know where this is stated as I am letting anybody who asks see the list

[Joni4TA 10]

All I've ever had to do when seeking a list of MBCs was ask the registrar and they either print one out or email it to me. I have seen plenty of other Council and District websites, too, where their MBC list is online on their website.

 

I manage our Troop website and I am planning to include a document that lists all our MBCs and what we will counsel. It'll be searchable by anyone on the net as well. So I , too, would like to know ahead of time if this is not okie-dokie!

 

Thanks!

[Lisabob 13]

The explanation I've received for why the MBC list is "restricted" is that this forces the boy to talk with the SM first, before starting work on a badge. If the list were available online, the boy could conceivably do the whole badge without ever consulting his SM (which would raise a bunch of other problems). Now, whether this is BSA policy or a local thing, and whether it is a good enough reason to make the list "restricted" if in fact this is a local thing, I don't know. My thoughts are that any boy who does a MB without first talking to the SM to get a blue card with the SM's signature, will probably only do that once because the SM would be within their rights to not issue the blue card post facto. And most MBCs I know also would insist that the boy have a signed blue card (or whatever procedure the local council uses) before working with a boy, too.

[eisely 13]

I have never construed the requirement for the scoutmaster signature to mean approval of any particular MB counselor. If a troop wants to assert some quality control in steering boys to counselors, then I think that probably is within the authority of the scoutmaster. Of course, as others have pointed out, if a scoutmaster feels that a particular counselor is unsatisfactory in some way that should be taken up with the district person responsible for counselors.

 

In my mind the requirement for the scoutmaster signature before a scout begins work gives the scoutmaster a chance to stay on top of a boy's progress. A wise scoutmaster might use the opportunity presented to him when a boy seeks a blue card to inquire about the boy's progress on the other badges the boy is supposedly working on and suggest that the boy might finish up x, y and z badges before he starts something else.