The Late Returning Boy Scout

[Vicki 11]

Of course, we have a basic difference of opinion - my opinion being that adolescence only comes around once - I am not about to penalize a boy just because he took off and "did other things." Life is too short - especially that part of it.

 

Vicki

[allangr1024 71]

My three boys, aged 20, 18, and 15 all went through scouting, and now are out of it. I saw the same pattern in each one. At 11 and 12, they were all up for camping and troop activities. At 13 they reached the upper ranks and became the "older boys". At 15 and 16 they tended to drift from the program (although my middle boy did love our Philmont trip at age 15). After that Scouts was for children and they were on to bigger and better things. My current 15 year old is now heavily involved in church youth group, and I do not mind his finding something that he really likes.

 

My middle boy came back ( I kept him registered) and got his eagle rank in the latter half of year 17. By that time I had given up trying to get him to finish, and resigned myself to his departure. He found his own eagle project (He had two previous failed projects) and did all of it. I mainly acted as his driver to planning meetings. He finished his Personal Management and Personal Fitness MBs with his original counciler (I did have to ask the guy to look at it again), and he turned his paperwork in on the day before his 18th birthday. (Big sigh of relief).

 

I see the BSA program being of the most interest to scouts 11 to 14. Probably 13 is the optimal age. As soon as they turn 16 something happens in guys and a corner is turned for them. There is a reason they are lost to the Car, the Girl and the Job. They are at the verge of entering the adult world, and the skills of scouting are juvenille to them. That is the reason the BSA launched first the explorer program and then the Venture program. To offer something more age appropriate.

 

If the boy wants to return and finish his eagle, and he can do it, I do not bother with why. He may want the key to future opertunity it provides. How adult is that. He may want to feel his time in scouting was not wasted. He may want to please his parents. Who knows. We should let them finish if they can, but not give it to anyone without proper merit.

 

I have seen guys return and fail because the time is too short. They did not get it. Some squeeked thru. I am glad that they see the value in the award and covit it for any reason.

 

I think I would revisit the scout spirit thing by having them do some service to the troop. Plan and carry out a specialty campout or high adventure activity, mabey. Do the COH. Inventory the adult supplies. That kind of thing.

 

That is my two cents worth, and Im sticking to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FScouter 24]

"I think I would revisit the scout spirit thing by having them do some service to the troop. Plan and carry out a specialty campout or high adventure activity, mabey. Do the COH. Inventory the adult supplies. That kind of thing."

 

Those all sound like good things for Scouts to participate in. I don''t know that they should be prerequisites for re-joining the troop, or for earning a rank after an absence. But if they are assigned projects they could be presented in a positive light such that the boy not perceive them as some kind of punishment for taking time off.

 

I suppose there could be some elements of Scout spirit there.

But Scout spirit is a really different fish altogether. Of course I could be wrong. I''ll have to look that up in the index of the Boy Scout Handbook.

[Beavah 205]

I am not about to penalize a boy just because he took off and "did other things."

 

Yah, Vicki, I don''t see da penalty, eh? The boy got the benefit of doin'' all those other things. Simple choice.

 

If the boy chose to do Scouting instead of soccer, he wouldn''t be "active" in the soccer program and wouldn''t earn a Varsity letter in soccer, even if he came back for the last two games. That''s not "penalizing" a boy. It''s properly recognizing the other boys who were more committed to soccer.

 

If the boy chose to do Scouting instead of band, and as a result wasn''t as active in his school''s music program and therefore didn''t earn the Highest Award for music, that''s not penalizing him for Scouting. He is able to earn awards in Scouting that his friends doing band aren''t eligible for.

 

Awards and recognitions, whether Varsity Letters or Music Awards or Eagle Scout, recognize outstanding achievement in that area. It''s just fine for a lad to choose which areas he wants to be active in/committed to, and just fine if those are the (only) areas where he deserves the Highest Award.

 

The standard for Boy Scouting is not "do your best" the way it is in Cub Scouting. And chasin'' as many awards as you can, just doin'' the minimum, isn''t my personal view of strong character.

 

There''s a lot of flexibility in da program, though. It''s certainly possible for a unit that wants every boy to "get" Eagle to make that happen, if it fits with their CO''s view of goals and character. Certainly dat''s the trend, given the increased % of boys making Eagle. But there''s other ways of lookin'' at it, eh? And other units/CO''s with a stronger standard of character may use the BSA materials to try to get their boys to reach that higher level of servant leadership and commitment.

 

Differences of opinion to be sure. Worth thinkin'' about.

 

Beavah

 

[Eamonn 61]

I''m having a problem with the "Do my best" bit!!

While I''m aware of the Cub Scout standard and am happy with it.

I''m also in no way advocating that requirements don''t have to be met. In fact at times I think I may be guilty of being a little overboard on this one.

We all however promise to "Do our best".

I don''t see this as being measurable. The only person who really knows if they have given their best is the person trying to do it.

I don''t always know why people do what they do or what reason they have for doing it. Most times I''m just happy that they do.

I wonder if a Lad who returned after a long absence and said that his reason for returning was that he really missed going camping would be received?

What about the Lad who hears that the Troop is going to some place that he really wants to go to?

Someone a few years back posted "More carrot and less stick"

If Eagle Scout rank is the carrot that is what brings a Lad back? I''m all for making a carrot cake and adding cream cheese icing!!

I don''t know what good or what influence we ever have on a Scout? I do know it''s a lot more than we can have on a Lad who isn''t there.

Ea.

 

[Vicki 11]

Thank you, Eamonn. I don''t think anyone is advocating doing the minimum or chasing as many awards as you can, either. I, too, have been told I tend to be a tad punctilious concerning fulfilling requirements (without adding to them, of course).

 

Vicki

 

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

You hit the nail on the head Beavah! Making choice is part of life. And learning to live with those choices & the outcomes of those choices isn''t always easy.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Vicki 11]

Folks, Boy Scouts isn''t band and it isn''t soccer, and to continue trying to compare them is doing a disservice to our program. Our program is about character development and the eight methods and three aims all head in that direction. To my mind, character development isn''t a skill set you build (although there are certainly skills involved), it''s a way of living that happens in fits and starts. Scouts is a program where it is possible to leave for a while and then decide, for whatever reason (as Eamonn pointed out, the scout is the only one who knows for sure) that you want to come back. Hallelujah, that''s one of the great things about scouting.

 

But if you start putting hurdles in to prove some idea that you have about scout spirit (FScouter alluded to it, I''ll say it - projects do not prove scout spirit) then you are adding to the requirements and doing a disservice to our program. The requirements don''t say, for very good reason, that you have to grind out every year from 12 on in order to make Eagle. There are specific time periods with specific things to accomplish during those time periods. They also don''t say that if you want to come back, you have to do extra projects. You can beef about the requirements if you like and I''ll certainly share a cup of coffee with you while we do it, and we may not agree, but they are what they are.

 

Back to our original post - I say bring the scout back and, if he fulfills the requirements, award him the Eagle he''s earned. The scouts who stay and enjoy scouting every year from 12 on are the backbone of scouting and I applaud them. The guy that comes back at 16 or 17, wanting to finish - well, for those Christians of us on this list, think prodigal son.

 

http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank7.asp

 

Vicki

[evmori 11]

Ah yes! The Prodigal Son! Well, if all the other analogies don''t fit, neither does this one.

 

It''s all about choices! A boy can choose band or football or church youth group over Scouts. Or he can choose Scouts. The Prodigal Son did come back & was welcomed by his father with open arms. But did the father excuse what the son had done? We don''t really know. And let''s not forget, this is a story not a real event.

 

We should welcome back Scouts who have been away.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Vicki 11]

Well, the server wouldn''t let me edit my post (even though it was within the time limit) so I''ll try this...

 

Yes, Ed, it''s a parable, which is a very specific kind of story, lest you be confused as to its place in scripture. I''m afraid I''m unclear, however, as to why it doesn''t fit? I don''t want to present the list with the usual specter of Christians bickering, but, as with most of the parables (and a lot of what National tells us), there are blanks left to be filled, and the end result - the welcoming back of the one who has been away - is clear and you do seem to agree with that principle. Jesus only very rarely answered a question with anything but another question. His specialty was reframing the discussion.

 

Glad to hear you agree that we should welcome scouts back.

 

Vicki

[John-in-KC 311]

I''ve been watching and reading (and spending a little time in the woods as a Campmaster), so I think my own position is jelling:

 

- A late returner should be welcomed back into the fold, as far as Troop membership goes.

 

- A late returner should not expect a POR to fall into his lap. If an elected position, he has to compete like every other. If a warrant (appointed) position, he has to show why he''ll be the best for the job.

 

- A late returner should not expect a MB Counselor to drop everything because he''s close to the 90 day bell for FL, PF, and PM. He has to plan out his trail to account for things.

 

- A late returner should not expect his SM, L--->E Coordinator, and CC to work intensely with him on his Eagle project simply because he ages out of the youth program in 30 days. Equally, he should not expect a first meeting with the District Advancement Chair outside the normal approval cycle for the same reason.

 

- A late returner should not expect to execute his Eagle Project 10 days before his 18th birthday and have everyone magically show up.

 

Does this all make sense?

[Vicki 11]

John, it makes perfect sense. There is no reason to treat this scout any differently than the others (IMO).

 

That said, as a MB counselor for Communications, I did help an active scout (one who had been active since Tiger Cubs)set up a special campfire specifically so I could sign off on that requirement and he could get the badge before he turned 18. As part of the campfire he gave a five minute presentation on how to put together a campfire, which satisfied a second requirement. But I only suggested the possibility - he set it up, worked it through the SPL, and got it done. I would do the same for your late returner. In short, I would treat him just as I would any other scout. Would I, as an adult, call the SPL and try to change his mind if he said NO? Absolutely not.

 

OTOH, as a MB counselor for Personal Management, I have told scouts that I cannot sign off on the 13 week $$$ tracking requirement unless I either saw that scout 13 weeks ago or know him well enough to take his word for it that he's been tracking for 13 weeks. Again, they all get treated equally.

 

Personally, I think you're on the right track - no adding or subtracting.

 

Vicki (edited to fix a typo)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[Beavah 205]

I''m afraid I''m unclear, however, as to why it doesn''t fit?

 

Because the prodigal son was a sinner. Pursuing alternate activities like band or soccer is not a sin.

 

Because the Father in the parable is God. Scouting is a fine youth program, but it is not God. Leaving Scouting just ain''t the same as rejecting God.

 

Because the prodigal son came back expecting and demanding nothing. "I am no longer fit to be called your son, just give me a place as a lowly servant." A boy who comes back expecting or desiring to earn the highest award is not displaying the same kind of character as the prodigal son. That''s the "test" I proposed - welcome him if he''s coming back only for Scouting - to be a "servant". Not if he''s coming back for Eagle.

 

Now, the parable of the Prodigal Son does illustrate the downside that I described. The feast for the prodigal badly upsets the loyal son, who feels cheated and refuses to participate any longer. There is a real emotional cost to the family in that welcome. And the Father responds "everything I have is yours" (the loyal son''s).... perhaps including awards. Which gets to KC''s notions.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

 

 

[Vicki 11]

Ah, like I said - many ways to read a parable. Also many ways to bring it into our current context. Too many, certainly, to get into here.

 

Shalom,

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[evmori 11]

Thanks Vicki. I know what a parable is. And Jesus answered many questions with questions.

 

Did the father expect the returning son to resume his expected duties? The parable doesn''t tell us, but I would say the answer is yes. Shouldn''t we expect the same from a Scout who returns after a prolonged absence?

 

Beavah you are wise beyond your years!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10