If The Requirement Isn't Completed

[CalicoPenn 729]

The Standards and Requirements of the BSA are met when the merit badge application is signed by the Merit Badge Counselor. What the unit is attesting to is that they received the application signed as completed by the Merit Badge Counselor - as long as the application is signed by the MBC, the standards and requirements are met - the unit is not attesting to the accuracy or completeness of the work done between the MBC and the Scout - only that they have received a signed merit badge application. Would I sign the advancement report? Yes - because the standards and requirements were met - remember, I'm only acknowledging that we received a signed application from the MBC. Would I like it? No - but my recourse is to go to the district/council to complain about the work of the MBC. The merit badge program isn't a troop controlled program, unlike ranks - it is a district/council program.

 

The "application" for the merit badge is to the Merit Badge Counselor. It is not to the unit, the committee, a board of review, the Scoutmaster - it is to the Merit Badge Counselor who acts as the representative of the District/Council for the purposes of awarding the badge. The Unit/Scoutmaster does not get to turn away or deny the application. The first signature verifies that the Scoutmaster/Unit is aware the Scout is working on the badge, the second signature is to verify that the Scout turned in a completed and signed application for the badge - that's it.

 

Perhaps I should have said Awarded instead of Earned - I was thinking particularly of the situation Lisabob related concerning the Scout who was awarded a couple of merit badges through camp that he obviously didn't work on. If the lad accepts the badges (as he is allowed to do under the merit badge system) we can certainly express our surprise and diappointment in his lack of character. Expressing extreme displeasure with Council over their utter lack of control and record keeping for summer camp merit badges should be right at the top of the list.

 

Much has already been written about Board of Reviews on this forum. Ed's situation describes a great question that elicited a response that gives them pause. Ultimately, the badge was awarded and the BOR can't take the merit badge away. The BOR can't even withhold rank advancement because a merit badge requirement wasn't completed to their satisfaction (or completed at all). This is one of those instances where the way the merit badge was taught/examined needs to be addressed with the MBC or Council.

 

CalicoPenn

[yelruh 10]

Gern,

I think you hit the nail on the head. I know how to tie a bunch of knots. I just use what I think will work for whatever job I'm doing. If asked what the name was, half the time, I'd come up blank.

 

Part of the time is the name doesn't relate easily to the knot. Other times it's because you don't use it enough to get it into long term memory.

 

I've helped teach Pioneering several times. I learned back splices inside and out, and will never forget it. Once you have the crown knot, you're most of the way there. But if I hadn't helped teach it over and over? I'd have to look it up in a book to do it.

[Eagledad 2777]

>>CalicoPenn, I understand the idea that the MB is "completed" when signed by the MBC, even if no actual work was done...but would you really sign an advancement report including such a MB if you actually knew that no work was actually done? If I did so, I would be making a false statement--that the record met the "standards and requirements" of the BSA.>I hear this grumble all over. IMO I think National needs to address this. Time to put the values back into scouts.

[Hunt 11]

"The Standards and Requirements of the BSA are met when the merit badge application is signed by the Merit Badge Counselor. What the unit is attesting to is that they received the application signed as completed by the Merit Badge Counselor - as long as the application is signed by the MBC, the standards and requirements are met - the unit is not attesting to the accuracy or completeness of the work done between the MBC and the Scout - only that they have received a signed merit badge application."

 

I understand this interpretation of what the attestation on the advancement report, but I have trouble accepting it as correct unless I see it in writing--I will look at the advancement procedures document later to see if there is any clarification. I do not believe that I would be able to sign an advancement report listing fraudulent merit badges.

 

"The BOR can't even withhold rank advancement because a merit badge requirement wasn't completed to their satisfaction (or completed at all)."

 

I can't agree with this, either. At the very least, a boy who accepts a bogus MB should not have his Scout Spirit requirement signed (although this is really the SM's job). But if I were sitting on a BOR and a boy told me that he didn't actually do one of the MBs required for the advancement, I couldn't in good conscience sign the advancement report for the rank.

 

Again, I want to clarify that there is a continuum here--I DON'T think that unit leaders should interfere just because they don't like the way a MB was counseled, or if they would have been tougher, or if the MBC interpreted requirements in ways they wouldn't have. In addition, I probably wouldn't interfere if, for example, the MB was taught to a group and I knew that not every boy individually "told" or "demonstrated." But I begin to have a lot more heartburn if, for example, a boy didn't camp enough nights, and I feel that intervention would be appropriate if the MB wasn't done at all.

 

Here's a hypothetical: boy attends camp and takes Archery--but by mistake the counselor gives him a signed blue card for Camping. I can't imagine anybody thinking that the scout should be able to insist that an advancement report with a completed Camping MB listed should be turned in.

[LongHaul 10]

Perhaps I should have said Awarded instead of Earned.

Ultimately, the badge was awarded and the BOR can't take the merit badge away. The BOR can't even withhold rank advancement because a merit badge requirement wasn't completed to their satisfaction (or completed at all). This is one of those instances where the way the merit badge was taught/examined needs to be addressed with the MBC or Council.

       The requirements for Star, Life and Eagle all contain one requirement which begins Earn --- merit badges. At what point are we as leaders allowed to apply the accurate definition of the word earn;

earn  urn -verb (used with object)

1. to gain or get in return for one's labor or service: to earn one's living.

2. to merit as compensation, as for service; deserve: to receive more than one has earned.

3. to acquire through merit: to earn a reputation for honesty.

4. to gain as due return or profit: Savings accounts earn interest.

5. to bring about or cause deservedly: His fair dealing earned our confidence.

        Should National rewrite all the merit badge requirements to have only one actual requirement that being 1. Obtain an Application for Merit Badge form signed by an approved Merit Badge Counselor for the badge being applied for certifying that you have done the following.? Lets take this one more step what if a scout presents you with a signed Blue Card for a merit badge you didnt issue a Blue Card for? Is it now not earned because you didnt sign it first? Careful now, separate procedure from requirement! The MBC shouldnt sign a card not properly issued but then they shouldnt sign cards for requirements not performed either. If a boy in your troop that you know for a fact is a non swimmer presents you with a signed card for Lifesaving thats acceptable and will be recorded on an advancement form and awarded? Do we say No you didnt follow procedure its invalid? The current merit badge requirements all are presented in such a manner s to imply that the scout is required to do specific tasks, not get credit for specific tasks, actually do those tasks. Getting credit for requirements not actually done is following procedure? I would not take the signed Blue Card away from the scout he would forever have a signed Blue Card but that is all he would have. LongHaul

[evmori 11]

In a thread spun from this one, a post had the following

 

"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law"

 

So if a Scout knows he didn't do a requirement for a merit badge & if we as adults are doing our job, shouldn't the Scout be letting us know he didn't do the requirement for a merit badge & not want it awarded until he completed the undone requirement?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn 61]

Some years back OJ quit the Troop he was in because he felt that they were handing out Merit Badges. He freely admitted that he had several that he felt he hadn't earned.

As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong.) Once the card has gone into the Council Service Center there is no system in place to remove it or take it back.

I can't remember who posted something that I remember as saying "They are using advancement as an aim not a method"?

But if we look at advancement as a method of Scouting. We can use this situation as a great learning opportunity.

I find that I'm in complete agreement with Eagledad (Barry).

We as adults really should be asking:

"Why wasn't the requirement completed?"

Merit Badges should be like full gallons of 2% milk. Each and every Scout should meet the requirements. Just as a gallon of 2% milk should have 2% fat and be 128 ounces.

I wonder why or what reason a counselor would have for not doing the job he volunteered to do?

GernBlansten

You might do better with the tautline hitch if you remember it as the Midshipman's hitch.

Eamonn.

[evmori 11]

Barry,

 

Thank you very much. I would be honored to work with you, too.

 

I understand that if this happens, the MB counselor should be reported to the DAC & noted at the Troop level to not be used again. That's not the issue.

 

My point is not get in the middle between a Scout & his MB counselor. I am a MB counselor for 10 MB's. My point or question is if a requirement for a MB is never done & the MB counselor signs the MB as complete, is it actually complete since a requirement wasn't done? I say no.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Several specific comments:

 

Lisa, I think others who've commented on the lack of quality in your Council's camp are right. The PLC needs to have a hard conversation with the Scoumaster about next years' LT camp. A letter, over the COR's signature needs to go to the Council President, cc the SE. Short, sweet, to the point, explain why you intend to take your business elsewhere.

 

At the same time, work through your District and Council Advancement Committees, and let them know your units' displeasure.

 

LH and CP: A Scout is Trustworthy. While it's not his fault if the system does not deliver, the Scouting AIM of Citizenship trumps rules, regulations, and procedures within the METHOD of advancement. I agree with the others who would have a quiet, friendly talk with the young men concerned. I'd also be pitching a storm with the Counselor concerned, complaining to the District/Council Advancement committee about qualities of said Counselor, AND doing what I recommended to Lisa. The Council will probably go into "defensive" mode, I suspect the young man will recognize he's been had and want to do the right thing.

 

Finally, as a unit Advancement Chairman: I'm the one who cuts the Advancement Report for the SM to sign. If there is a genuine integrity issue involving a Counselor, I'll drop the whole shebang in the District/Council Advancement Chairman's lap. He/she has the authority to over-ride the refusal of a unit to accept/award for work done. The District and Council advancement people I know are men and women of honor. They get the extra zeroes on their Scouting paycheck ... I'll let them submit the report over us.

[Eagledad 2777]

>>is it actually complete since a requirement wasn't done? I say no.

[SSScout 1615]

So is the complaint with the Scout or the MBCounselor? If it is known that some requirements have been slid over, perhaps the problem is not with the Scout, who trusts that the fellow PASSING him is correct.

 

"Oh Doctor, before you remove that appendix of mine, I'd like to ask about that diploma on your wall from the College of Medicine of East Calamarikistan. Is it a good school? My son might like to study there. Oh yes, by the by, what were your scores on the State Boards?"

 

As the Scout Craft fella at CSDay Camp, I can't begin to count the number of WB2s that can't tie a square knot( excuse me, Eamon, reef knot) to save their life. Yet, it is a requirement in (if memory serves) two CS ranks. We do alot of 'remedial' knot tying herebouts. I get the impression they have suffered a "social" promotion, from well meaning parents...

 

I would (and have in the past) taken my concerns about "social" promotions back to the party involved. The Camp Director, perhaps, in this case?

 

See also the thread about "Ethics"

 

YiS

[evmori 11]

OK, and then what? I mean is that all you want from you original question is a poll of yes or no?

 

Then what is the question. I feel the Scout should complete the requirement before the badge is considered "earned".

 

And no, that's not all I wanted from my original question. There are those who feel that once a MB is considered complete by a MB counselor that's the end. Makes no difference whether all the requirements were done or not.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn 61]

My reef-knot tying friend SSScout brings up Cub Scout Advancement.

Those of us who have served in Cub Scouting and followed the BSA guidelines can, I'm almost certain tell stories about the Wolf or the Bear who's parent has gone through the book and signed off on all the requirements.

 

I have been spending some time reading about the changes in UK Scouting.

The move there seems to be moving away from Advancement and more toward participation.

They still have ranks and badges, but participation in events seems to be the big thing more than meeting requirements as we know them.

Eamonn.

 

[Lisabob 13]

John,

 

Thanks for the advice John. To clarify, let me just say that this was a neighboring council, not our own council, and the troop was already planning on going to a different camp next year anyway (Our home council doesn't run a boy scout camp). Personally I still think a letter is in order but as an out-of-council unit, and given that the council that ran the camp is huge, and the same guy has been running the camp for 30+ years, I think any impact we'd have is likely to be pretty small.

 

Still I guess my question is more about what happens in the unit after something like this, and less what should happen at the district or council level. From what I'm hearing, it sounds like it is within the authority of the SM to figure out how to approach this situation (as opposed to, say, the committee chair or ASMs or other committee members).

[Eamonn 61]

Lisabob

The letter should be sent to the Council Advancement Chairman of the Council.

You might want to word how upset the Troop is that the camp failed to give the Scouts the opportunity to meet the requirements correctly and have placed the Scouts and the Troop leaders in an ethical dilemma.

The final authority should rest with the Scout.

It really is his choice to do what he thinks is right.

As far as the BSA is concerned he has a signed blue card and is good to go.

I feel sure that any Scout who was refused rank advancement (Eagle) because the SM wasn't happy with the standards of MBC would win if the Scout appealed to National.

The card signed by the MBC will win the day.

We may not like it or agree with it, but that's the way it is.

We can in our own Councils do everything possible to ensure that MBC's do the job they are supposed to do. This might mean upsetting a few people.

Eamonn.

Eamonn.