Eagle Scout issue

[dhendron 26]

Greetings:

 

I have an issue with a potential Eagle Scout that I wanted some opinions on:

 

The scout in question had a lot of issues last year. For brevity, I will say they were serious scout spirit issues and leave it at that. A week after he turned 17.5, he was given a SM conference for life scout and passed. That unfortunately (for him) left him one week too late to make Eagle Scout. The SM conference occured with the previous Scoutmaster whom I replaced in January 2006.

 

The scout (through his mother) appealed to the council's Eagle committee for an extension. Nothing was heard for some time, and the scout did not work on his advancements or begin addressing a possible Eagle Project pending the result of the extension request. He did do a term (4 months for our troop) as Asst Senior Patrol Leader, and actually did a good job. He did not run for another leadership position this past January, so this left him two months short of the required six months leadership time even if he was not short of actual time. The scout is also short five Eagle required merit badges.

 

In February, one month prior to his 18th birthday, he was granted an extension on his Eagle requirements. The extension gave him until August 5 (five months after his 18th birthday) to complete his requirements. The scout did not say anything to any of the troop leadership about the extension until March. For council's part, they did not consult with the troop or district leadership prior to granting the request for extension. I was later told that they assumed we would agree, although I told them we would not have. In any case, the scout finally mentioned the extension after he turned 18 years of age about mid-March.

 

The scout did not begin working on his Eagle project and his remaining five Eagle required merit badges until after he turned 18 (and after his extension was granted and had aged more than a month).

 

When I spoke to council about it, I was told the reasons for the extension request. Both are bogus, but I was told that anything to do with the extension was not an issue for me to worry about. I complained that allowing a scout to work on five MB's and start his Eagle Project after he turned 18 flew in the face of common sense and frankly turned the whole process on its ear! I asked how an adult could earn scout leadership time or MB's. I was told to treat the adult as a scout for all purposes and allow him to continue with advancements, leadership and his Eagle project. Lastly, I was informed that although approved locally by council, "National has signed off on this."

 

I have since asked a number of indivuals locally, and the consensus is that what has occurred is blatently against BSA policy and should never have happened. I wrote a letter to National about it, but did not receive a response.

 

Where we are now: the scout/adult has still not earned any MB's, although he says he is working on them. He stalled on working on his Eagle Project, but finally approached me for approval two weeks ago. He has had his Eagle Project approved (after some revisions) and will move forward with it tomorrow.

 

Your comments would be most welcome. Thank you.

[mikeb 10]

While 17 year olds going into a huge funk and dragging their feet until the last minute to finish up their eagle is not uncommon in the least this business of getting a time extension is somewhat different. Regardless of his recent behavior I think if he's been a good Scout for the last 4-5 years you should give him your support and get him signed off. It's a win, really. When he gets a little older and his mind clears he'll be eternally grateful for the help you give today.

[evmori 11]

I would let this Scout know you are available if he needs any assistance & leave it at that. It is then up to him. I would do nothing else unless asked. The only thing I might to is write another letter to national & council expressing your total disdain at the situation. And send it certified mail! They have to sign for that & you might get a response.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dhendron 26]

Thanks for the comments so far!

 

I think I can sum up my biggest issue with this, which is a scout who does not start to work on the majority of his Eagle requirements until after he is 18. The behavior issues are gone. I think of all the boys who struggle to get their work done before they are 18 (and those who sail through will good planning and time management) and wonder why someone without a good excuse (and believe me, his excuses for not getting his work done were highly questionable) should get extra time. If he had worked on his merit badges or his Eagle Project during the last six months of his minority and only needed the week to make it legal or perhaps to finalize his application, this would not be an issue.

 

He started his Eagle Project today and did an excellent job. The project is worthy and appropriate for an Eagle Project. He will finish it next weekend.

 

Just in case it was not clear (and it was not!) I have met with him on a monthly basis, counseled him, and am mentoring him as best I can. I can be personally annoyed and still put on a happy face, after all. I have ensured he knew what the issues as I saw them were so he knows where I am coming from. At the same time, I am telling him that he really has to prove himself more than the other guy because of his situation. He must challenge himself. When he gets in front of the Eagle Board, extension or not, they are going to have a problem with this (that fallout is already in progress). He knows it is an uphill battle.

 

So, anyway, any other comments on this are welcome! Thanks.

[frankj 10]

The only comment I would add here is that maybe "Plan Ahead" should become the 13th point of the Scout Law. It applies here and it certainly applies in later life. I am not faulting you or your troop. It is the young man's responsibility to plan ahead. We as troop leaders can bring the horse to water but we cannot and should not force him to drink.

 

If you monitor the Scout's age and the time remaining to the 18th birthday its pretty easy to see when counseling might be needed. The post says you became SM in Jan 2006 so you might not have had the opportunity to do this. In my opinion, the "countdown to Eagle" counseling should have started at age 17. In a perfect world the Scout would do this on his own.

 

As to the actions of "National", no comment. I cannot even get them to print the correct the name of our town on the Eagle certificates they issue.

[Lisabob 13]

When he gets in front of the Eagle Board, extension or not, they are going to have a problem with this (that fallout is already in progress). He knows it is an uphill battle.

 

I think an Eagle Board has a right to ask some tough questions here but I don't think the fact of the extension, however questionable it might have been, should be enough to deny this young man the Eagle rank. The extension was clearly out of your hands and approved both by the council and national. If you deny rank advancement on that basis, I would imagine that the candidate would have a pretty good shot at an appeal.

 

Beyond that, at least he did a good job on his project and seems to have grown beyond his behavioral issues. Sounds like someone who, down the road, you may be able to look back on and be proud to call an Eagle from your troop.

 

Lisa'bob

[Trevorum 24]

dhendron, welcome to the forums!

 

A very strange situation, to be sure. You didn't say what documentation the fellow has from National (I assume a letter) but make sure he knows to keep that - and ALL relevant paperwork - in a safe place. When/if his eagle application is recieved at National, the dates of his remaining MBs will raise a red flag and his application will be kicked back unless he has some kind of paper trail attached.

 

The situation confirms my impression that virtually ANY appeal to National will be upheld (unless of course the candidate in question admits he is an atheist or gay, which are certain dealbreakers).

 

Unfortunately, the lesson he has learned here is that (after years of being told that his Eagle must be earned BEFORE he turns 18) there are no hard-and fast deadlines and that wheedlingand complaining will get you special treatment. I just hope he never decides to join the military....

[scoutldr 732]

I think as SM, you have a right to see the letter from National granting the extension. Something doesn't add up. We are told that Eagle extensions are extremely rare, and must be accompanied by serious extenuating circumstances, such as serious illness, death, or mental or physical disability. This week we were told of a scout in our district whose mother died on the weekend that he was to complete his Eagle project. An extension has been requested, but they are not hopeful it will be granted.

[evmori 11]

I'm with scoutldr. Where's the letter? And if council wouldn't show you the letter, I would flat out refuse to lends this slacker anymore of your free time!

 

Something doesn't add up!

[nldscout 18]

Extentions on Eagle if properly documented are not difficult to get. I know of Several that were submitted in our district and all but one was approved.

 

The question I would have would be where is the approval paperwork. Without that in troops hand he is not a youth and you cannot allow him to work on youth things or work with boys.

[dhendron 26]

To address some of the comments:

 

Although I took over as SM formally in January, we began the turnover last September or so. I started monthly or better counseling sessions with the scout in question in an effort to get things going. The Eagle Project, MB's, etc., all were addressed. For whatever reason, he held the work until he had the extension in hand plus then a few weeks after. Whenever I asked about his progress, I received excuses ranging from "I've been busy" to "I hadn't thought about it." When March rolled around and I found the extension had been granted, I asked again about the delay. His response, "I thought I had more time."

 

Also, we have an SA who, among other things, specifically works with the boys at various ranks who are lagging behind. Advancement was discussed with the scout in question on many, many occasions leading up to his Life SM conference.

 

He has a letter (which I have seen) granting his request for extension until August 5 from the council, but nothing from national. This was one of my issues I raised in my letter to national but did not get a response to.

 

Thanks again for the comments!

[jr56 92]

Welcome, what an unusual situation. I guess the best course fo action is to let the boy work until August 5. If he completes his work, he will still have to face the Eagle BOR, and the delay will be noted at National. Either one may kick the whole process out.

[Venividi 35]

jr56,

 

Passing the issue to the Eagle BOR and/or National is one course of action - but I am not sure that it is necessarily the best one. In my view, problems are best handled closest to the problem. dhendron sounds like he is doing a heck of a job in supporting this young man. He describes how he has laid out to the young man the challenge that he faces. Ultimately, he will be the one to sign off on the scout spirit requirement based on his assessment on the scout's demonstration of scout spirit based on how the lad rises to the challenge.

[mk9750 11]

dhedron,

 

Thank you for the sincerity of your concern. It is obvious to me you are guided by the principles Scouting holds dear. My suspicion is that this will work out the way it should.

 

Having been involved in two situations that at their core involved the same problem (allow or stand in the way of a boy working toward Eagle when it is a questionable result), I think the decision rides on which position supports the AIMS of Scouting: Character, Citizenship and Fitness.

 

In other words, which position would likely help this Scout improve his character, or citizenship, or fitness? One might say that allowing him to complete the rank will automatically improve a Scout's character. I'm not so sure I believe this, but it might be true. It's possible that because of the rank of Eagle, a Scout might recognize the need to be a better citizen than he otherwise might be.

 

On the other hand, it is possible that the Scout might learn more, might improve his character, might become a better citizen, by learning that procrastination, selfishness, and begging are not the characteristics our society holds in high esteem. All too often, we (all of American society, not just we in the BSA) inadvertently teach youth that there are no consequesnces for actions (or lack of action).

 

In re-reading my response so far, I think I may be less than balanced in my response. I thought about trying to even things up by being less harsh concerning the consequesnces idea, but I think perhaps the way I wrote it represents how I really feel. But regardless how I feel, my best advice is to let this thought guide your actions: If it will make him a better person, support it.

 

Either way, best of luck to you.

 

Mark

[jr56 92]

I am sorry if I was not clear, I didn't intend to imply that the decision should be passed on, I merely meant that if the boy was indeed granted an extension, then honor it and help him complete his Eagle. I was simply stating that even with all the proper sigantures from his troop, he may encounter problems from the Eagle BOR and or national. The story sounds a little fishy to me, I was also under the impression that Eagle extensions were difficult to get, and had to document circumstances beyond the boy's control.