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Found 147 results

  1. SSScout

    SE Revoking Membership's

    Yes, the BSA good ol' boys network sometimes is an embarrassment. I am reminded of some past events. Do we remember Owasippe? This Scout Reservation in Michigan became the unwarranted center of discussion some years back. Chicago Council started selling off camps and other property , a Scouter raised flags, garnered support, National got into the fray and lots of bad PR erupted. Somebody wanted the money somewhere.... We have lots of back and forth here on Scouter dot com, you can research it. Then we have the recent New England, Cape Cod Camp brou haha. Same issue. Let's sell off the Scout camp (money for the Council? Any commissions there? ) And on a personal level, I served as a Chaplain (approved by my faith committee) at the Nat Jam in 2005, when I applied again in 2010, (one has to be approved as "Staff" by your local Council and National and in my case by the Faith Committee), I was denied Staff status. When I inquired, it took multiple phone calls and emails to reach a sympathetic Irving person who revealed to me that my local Council had denied my application. Why? he couldn't say. Council person said "it's a confidential matter" . But I am the topic of this confidentiality? Doesn't matter, we can't /won't discuss it. When I asked the National Person again, he read off the vetting record from Council and said, "It looks like you made a enemy in your Council. " I elicited and National and Council received over 20 letters of recommendation from Scout and employer and faith folks, attesting to my personal qualities, but National and the Council contacts both said they could not (would not ) rescind the judgement. Come 2013 Jambo, I again applied (approved by my faith committee, included many letters of recommendation) and discovered the vetting process had been changed. No problem this time. Why the difference? No one would say. Personal opinion and "good ol' Scouter" network? Possible money involvement? Who can say. The light of day is important in many of these cases. No Scouter who follows the Scout Promise and Law should have to operate in fear of his or her good name being besmirched for only an opinion. Seek out the facts. Shine light on the event. See you on the trail.
  2. SSScout

    Switching councils

    The only "legal" way around this is to lobby the CORs in all the member Scout Unit COs. The CORs are, by definition, the voting trustees of the Council, no matter how it was /is constituted. If you cannot persuade the PTB of the present Council (are there any not so obvious conflicts of interest?) that what they are proposing is not "Scouty", , then someone (you? ) needs to research the actual ownership of the camp in question. Trust? Deeds? Conditions of transfer? There have been other examples of Scout camps being (or trying to be sold) sold in less than transparent ways. See the thread.., Good bye Owasippe.
  3. Yes, the Owasippe Scout Reservation was saved. Owasippe Staff Association and Owasippe Outdoor Education Center members were big winners in this negotiated slate. I find it somewhat ironic that the CO's ended up losing some of their voting strength in the council when the members-at-large were "greatly expanded". This was a poor reward for stepping up and supporting the opposition. I have mixed feeling about the results. I'm glad that Owasippe was saved, but I am disappointed that opposition leaders double-crossed the CO's in the negotiations. The CO's never got the free and fair elections they were promised. My unit has never gone back to Owasippe. Since the membership changes, we have only used church owned campgrounds.
  4. David CO

    BSA Executive Salaries

    I understand how it is supposed to work...on paper. This was all explained to me way back during the Owasippe controversy. I also know that it doesn't actually work that way. BSA does not operate the way their corporation paperwork says they should. That was the basis of the Chicago Area Council lawsuit. Yes, the fact that the board has never fired a CSE is a clear indicator that things are not right. These unanimous votes are another. The ridiculously high salaries are the clincher. The governing bodies have no control over the execs. This is what I think should change. The owners of the corporations (national council/local councils) should have actual control over the hiring, firing, and salaries of the execs who supposedly work for them. The selection of the boards should be democratic and transparent. If the boards do not vote/act in a way that is truly representative their constituents, there should be a process by which they can be voted out of their offices.
  5. A scout camp, perhaps the oldest, saved and restored. It took concerned scouters, local government, legal action, zoning, a change in council leadership, funding, and volunteers. "With its future secure, Owasippe Scout Reservation will receive $1 million in improvements before the next camping season, according to an official with the Chicago Area Council of Boy Scouts of America." "The future of Owasippe had been in question several years ago when the council had a $19 million offer from a Holland-area businessman for the property. But plans to sell the 4,800-acre property were derailed after the township board refused to adjust the zoning and a protracted legal battle began in 2006. The council argued that it had the right to do with the property what it pleased, and that it didn't have the money for necessary upkeep. The township ended up winning the legal fight, and the council brought in new leaders who were committed to preserving the 102-year-old camp." http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2013/12/boy_scouts_commit_1_million_to.html http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2011/07/owasippe_nations_oldest_boy_sc.html Hallelujah but IMO if council leadership had been changed first, the camp would have been restored years ago.
  6. SSScout

    Same CO...multiple CORs

    The COR is what they choose to be. They can be a paper official, or take an active role, be there to help make decisions. "Offishully" , the COR and IH decide and approve who is and who is not the Unit Leaders. It is their signature on the appointments and applications, yes? When Chicago Council set about disassembling their camps, it was the volunteers that got the Council Voting Members (the CORs) together and embarrassed the Chicago Council leaders AND National, who thought they had a slam dunk in selling off all the camps. Owasippee is still there, thanks to the CORs who got together and voted their votes, finally, and made the stink and reminded the County Boards who should be in charge. Lots of discussion on Scouter.com about it. AND https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/threads/owasippe-scout-property-in-jeopardy.90741/
  7. 2009 "After countless rejections over the past seven years, the slate of nominations to the Chicago Area Council Board was finally approved by the voting membership. On June 22, the Annual Meeting and Board Election was reconvened, with about 60 CORs and Scouters gathering to vote. All five slates of nominees was approved by hefty majorities. Leading up to the election, there was much talk encouraging both sides of the election. While some felt enough concessions as to the members of the slate were made that they could be approved, others sought more changes and specific persons to be included or excluded from council governance. The major change in the CAC board is Glen Emig replacing Mike Hughes as council president. Emig, a member of the Scouter 11 group that brought suit (and won in court) against the council in 2007 over irregular governance, wasted no time in working on key issues. Just one month after his election, Emig convened a board meeting addressing the CAC bylaw stating a board will remain in place until the next Annual Meeting should the nominations slate fail two times. Also on Emig’s “to-do†list is a full review/revision of the CAC bylaws, the official hiring of Chuck Dobbins as official Scout Executive (he is currently interim S.E. appointed by National), and a full financial review of the council’s books. Upon the successful election in June, the National Council of the BSA restored the charter of the CAC, which had been in receivership. The Member-At-Large slate was greatly expanded to include many frontline Scouters including OSA President Bill Van Berschot, OOEC Chairman Joe Sener, and Bill and Rita Egan." Owasippe Staff Association, Vibrations, Vol 31, Issue 3.
  8. SSScout

    Council spy?

    Owasippe. Yes, that happened. But what followed? The Council was rebuilt, the publicity was wonderful, the federal court case was unique, and Owasippe was ultimately saved as a camp ground. The CORs have the effect they can have. Or they can stay home and let things happen. Phone calls, publicity, "follow the money", refuse to back down to bullies (even in Scout uniforms), enforce zoning regs. Sounds like politics as usual.
  9. scouter_djt

    Goodbye, Owasippe

    The Chicago Area Council has tonight voted to see off the entire 4,700 acres of the Owasippe camp near Muskegon, MI. CAC has owned this camp since 1911, and it has provided thousands of boys with a wonderful camping experience in a truly beautiful setting. Unfortunately, the CAC has let dollar signs cloud their visions of what scouting is truly about. This pristine, tranquil paradise will now suffer the scars of development, and our scouts in the Chicago Area Council will have one less camping possibility. In fact, the CAC now owns absolutely no camping facilities. For the past several years, many parties have tried to preserve this scout reservation for the future of our scouting program. Unforunately, the CAC has turned a deaf ear to these proposals, and has only been concerned with achieving top dollar for this camp. It is truly a sad day to be a scout or a scouter in the Chicago area.
  10. Narraticong

    Owasippe

    My son and I had a chance to make a short visit to the Chicago Area Councils Owasippe Scout Camp yesterday. Folks were nice and it seems like a nice facility. They have two summer camps. One is a cook your own meals camp and the other is a dining hall facility. Has anyone attended Owasippe? How was your experience? Ken
  11. Who wanted more "independent" information? Other independent reports. Note the web site link. Explore away. Ron is quite forthcoming about the situation there - as are other CAC members. Note - Ron was "suspended" from BSA for his efforts fighting this sale. So much for members having any voice in BSA. The Scarlet Sassafras - Special Edition Blast ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ August 30, 2005 - http://scarlet_sassafras.tripod.com Opening Quotes: "A Scout Is Courteous" ... the 5th point of the Scout Law. The third principle of the Scout Oath..."to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight". Something that ALL should be mindful of as they represent Scouting in Chicago. ======================================= WARNING Issued By Chicago Area Council! ======================================= To TSS Subscribers, Dedicated Scouters & Owasippe Loyalists: You may have read or heard about a plan to conduct a picketing protest outside the homes of some Chicago Area Council BSA board members sometime on Labor Day Weekend. I want it to be clearly known that while I support and encourage all to be fearlessly outspoken and to share their opinions and displeasures about the sale and development of Owasippe and the governance of Chicago Area Council, that... > I do NOT condone any participation in activities deemed to be illegal or unscoutlike, > I am NOT leading nor attending any such picketing protest in front of the private homes of board members, > I ask all to REFRAIN from conducting themselves in any manner that would be breaking the law or jeopardizing your membership in the BSA, > I respectfully request you or those you know to ABANDON any notions of conducting said picketing of private homes, AND > I highly recommend that everyone channel their talents, energy and enthusiasm in such a manner that would be in keeping with the letter of the law, that does not interfere with the rights and liberties of others, that is in keeping with our Scouting ideals, and that is positively and productively oriented toward our common cause. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with exercising one's right to free speech and to freedom of assembly under the letter of the law as was previously conducted last September 4th and on another later date in front of the Scout service center at 1218 W Adams. Proper protest permits were applied for and granted and we conducted our rally in front of a business establishment on "public" rights of way and in keeping with conduct and behavior commensurate with the Scout Oath and Law. You should never be ashamed to speak your mind, to stand up for what you believe in, and to join in any cause for the good of our Scouts and for a fair and democratic process in CAC that respects the will of its frontline Scouters and their chartered institutions. I have recently received a written warning by the legal counsel of Chicago Area Council, Louis Vitullo, and I now share that with you below along with a copy of an Illinois statute that he referenced. While I'm not an attorney and unable to ascertain the current validity of this statute, I think all of you should conduct yourselves on the side of caution and assume that the below referenced statute is still active and inforce. I know that many have legitimate grievances and may feel wronged and disenfranchised from council governance, but this doesn't grant anyone the right to do something immoral and illegal. I've always been taught that two wrongs don't make a right! So, behave yourselves as good and responsible Scouters, stay away from these homes, and do the right thing by your Scouts! -------------------------------------------------------------------- August 25 Letter from Louis Vitullo, Legal Counsel for CAC... "Dear Mr Kulak: I have reviewed your recent emails regarding the proposed activities on Labor Day, September 5, 2005, involving Lewis Greenblatt, James Stone, Mark Linse and Dennis Chookaszian. From the description in the email, it appears you are organizing a picketing activity at the residences of these individuals, and further that it is being organized as a scouting event." "Please be advised that the activities that you contemplate constitute a criminal offense for yourself and all participants under Article 21.1 of the Criminal Code of the State of Illinois, 720 ILCS 5/21.1-1, et seq. (See Enclosure No. 2). Specifically, residential picketing is a Class B Misdemeanor which is punishable by imprisonment for up to six months and/or a fine not to exceed $1,500.00. We will be notifying the appropriate law enforcement officials of your proposed illegal activity and should you choose to proceed, we will seek criminal sanctions to the fullest extent of the law. We sincerely hope this will not be necessary." ~ Louis P Vitullo CAC Legal Counsel to the Board Wildman Harrold, Attorneys and Counselors ------------------------------------------------------------------- & -------------------------------------------------------------------- Illinois Compiled Statutes: Criminal Offenses (720 ILCS 5/) - Criminal Code of 1961. Article 21.1. RESIDENTIAL PICKETING ** (720 ILCS 5/21.1-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 21.1-1) Sec. 21.1-1. Legislative finding and declaration. The Legislature finds and declares that men in a free society have the right to quiet enjoyment of their homes; that the stability of community and family life cannot be maintained unless the right to privacy and a sense of security and peace in the home are respected and encouraged; that residential picketing, however just the cause inspiring it, disrupts home, family and communal life; that residential picketing is inappropriate in our society, where the jealously guarded rights of free speech and assembly have always been associated with the respect for the rights of others. For these reasons the Legislature finds and declares this Article to be necessary. (Source: Laws 1967, p. 940.) ** (720 ILCS 5/21.1-2) (from Ch.38, par. 21.1-2) Sec. 21.1-2. It is unlawful to picket before or about the residence or dwelling of any person, except when the residence or dwelling is used as a place of business. However, this Article does not apply to a person peacefully picketing his own residence or dwelling and does not prohibit the peaceful picketing of the place of holding a meeting or assembly on premises commonly used to discuss subjects of general public interest. (Source: P.A. 81-1270.) ** (720 ilcs 5/21.1-3) (from Ch. 38, par. 21.1-3) Sec. 21.1-3. Sentence. Violation of Section 21.1-2 is a Class B misdemeanor. (Source: P.A. 77-2638.) -------------------------------------------------------------------- When all else fails, you can't go wrong if you always follow the Scout Oath and Law. My personal favorite is the first law, "TRUSTWORTHY"! FYI...I have respectfully responded to Mr Vitullo and to those whom he copied with his correspondence. Have a GREAT Scouting Year with your units, and a joyful and peaceful Labor Day weekend with your loved ones, ~ Ron Kulak Lachawelendamen Lenape, ...Suspended and spurned but not silent ================================================================ OWASIPPE PROSPECTIVE BUYER MAKES HIS COMMENTS ABOUT DEVELOPMENT ================================================================ August 24, 2005 - OOEC Responds to Benjamin Smith's Letter - via www.ooec.org Two weeks after comments by the President of the Chicago Area Council in a Letter to the Editor of the White Lake Beacon, prospective developer Benjamin A. Smith III has used the same forum to make public comment about the pending rezoning and sale of Owasippe. Mr Smith commented that since his purchase offer was made area residents have continued to enjoy the beautiful forests, meadows, lakes and other areas that make this (Owasippe) such a magical location. He also acknowledges Some area residents have also used these intervening months to tellwhy they dont want to see changes in the property. Ben Smith offers assurance that it is my intention of preserving as much of this beautiful acreage in its current condition as feasible. My motivation in purchasing this property was not driven by a profit motive, but rather by an appreciation for the beauty and serenity of this property. The Owasippe Outdoor Education Center observes that Mr. Smith proposed his $19-million+ purchase to be contingent on the Blue Lake Township approval of the Chicago Council of Boy Scouts rezoning proposal. That rezoning proposal was submitted a half-year before Mr. Smiths offer and OOEC believes Mr. Smith was aware of the details of the rezoning request and stands squarely behind the Council and the proposal. The zoning proposal is that 90% of Owasippe would become residential housing while 10% would be preserved. OOEC notes that the vast majority of the land to be preserved is wetlands that by law could not be disturbed. The single minor preservation concession of the rezoning is 41 acres to assist in the preservation of the Karner Blue Butterfly. Mr. Smith asks that the residents of Blue Lake Township look at the track record of the Chicago Area Council concerning their commitment to the property and the stewardship that has been demonstrated. OOEC agrees that a close look is in order. Until the 1980s Owasippe was a property of more than 12,000 acres. The current rezoning proposal is the final disposal by the Chicago Council of their land holdings in West Michigan. One needs to just look west and south at the 8,000+ acres already sold in order to realize what is planned for the remainder of Owasippe. We believe that even the folks now living on former Owasippe property are saying.ENOUGH! OOEC recognizes the personal and professional background that Mr. Smith presented in his letter. However, we do have reservations about just how three decades of civic and business activities in the dramatic development of the City of Holland transfers to the rural character of Blue Lake Township. We observe that the revitalization of downtown Muskegon seems to be a bit more in line with the experience and interests of Mr. Smith. It would take a huge, and we believe unwarranted leap of faith by local residents, to bridge the gap between the Ben Smith comments about preservation and natural set asides and the proposal presented to Blue Lake Township by the Chicago Boy Scouts. This is the very zoning approval that Mr. Smith has made his $19-million+ purchase agreement contingent upon. As we commented earlier this month about the letter from the Council President, Blue Lake Township officials can only respond to what has been presented to them. We fully support the idea that whats on paper and being asked for by the Chicago Scouts is the true future proposed for Blue Lake Township. We steadfastly encourage that no residential development become a part of the designated camping land that is the deep rooted character of Blue Lake Township. Troubling to the OOEC is what seems to be saber rattling from Mr. Smith. We read the following as a threat to the community that is in the process of reviewing its future: the longer and more costly the process of getting the property returned to its former zoning, the more the property will have to be developed. If our investors grow weary of this process, there are others who are willing to step in and I can assure you they will not have the same attitude we have. OOEC and many residents are growing weary of the misrepresentations and pleadings that the Council is a victim of rezoning. The facts do not support these pleadings by the Chicago Council and Mr. Smith. Jim Schlichting OOEC Development Director ======================================== Camp Sauger Lake & Some Turkey Feathers ======================================== Gordon Zion is quoted on page... http://scarlet_sassafras.tripod.com/id16.html as saying, Zion commented on the efforts to save Owasippe: "By way of introduction, I was a professional with the CAC for nine years and a camp director at Owasippe for two (ie. Wolverine North in 1969 and Sauger Lake in its inaugural year of 1970)." Well, I love you for what you do, Gordy, but Sauger Lakes charter year was 1969, not 1970, and Charlie Largent was Camp Director that year. I know, I was on staff at Sauger Lake that year and have the staff picture and the Charter Year patch to prove it (for a picture of that patch, see http://campimages.com/4image/details.php?image_id=7219 and note the year embroidered into the side of the tent). I was waterfront staff and taught rowing and canoeing, mostly. Took my Troop (Troop 69, Des Plaines Valley Council) to Wolverine this year (session 6, site 7), and walked around Sauger Lake (cant quite bring myself to call it Camp Carlen). I walked the loop, checked out the abandoned program areas. The camp is still in use, though; there were two Venture Crews in it, and the kybos have HOT WATER HEATERS! Good Lord! Wish wed had that when I was there. Theres been some changes, but other spots look as they always have. And I was rewarded with a 14 turkey feather that I found and which will be in my hat for a while. ~ Ron Fox ============================================= More Animal Stories From The OSR Hinterlands ============================================= Dateline...First Period 2005 Dateline: First Period 2005 Wolverine Site 5 We all know that keeping food in your tent is an invitation to visits by critters. That apparently includes small packages of TUMS accidentally left in the scoutmaster's toiletry kit. I awoke one night to the sound of grunts and scratching - coming from inside my tent. The animal making these unearthly noises must have been one of the largest raccoons to ever walk the planet - I'm guessing here since I didn't have my glasses on. I stirred, and the beast stopped briefly before continuing it's effort to get at the small morsel in my bag. Finally it lumbered away after more animated movement and noise from me. I related this brush with nature to my scouts, who now know that we are serious when we say "no food in tents." If that isn't enough, an hour or two after the middle-of-the-night visit, a massive raccoon battle took place just outside of our campsite. Since I was already sleeping with one eye open to defend against another raid of my tent, I was the only one to hear any of it. The battle opened with much rustling and some grunts. The rustling and grunts intensified and were accompanied by shrieks and screams. This went on for several minutes and must have involved several animals. It ended with one loud shriek and the defeated scurrying away, alive to fight another day. Edward J Gorz, SM, CAC T-471 ==================================== 4.2% of Scouts Now Make It To Eagle ==================================== - - - previously it was known to be 2% From the 2004 Annual Report of the BSA As of Dec 31, 2004: 988,995 are in Boy Scouting 50,377 earned the Eagle Award The percent then, by simple arithmetic, is 50,377/988,995 x 100% = 5.1% However, there are 250,584 in Venturing as of Dec 31, 2004 If you do the calculation: (50,377 / (988,995 + 250,584)) x 100% = 4.06% Whatever the percentage is Nationally, what really counts is that each boy in Scouting has an excellent experience with the BSA Advancement method. ========================================= Urban Scout Effort Draws Fire in Atlanta! ========================================= August 15, 2005 - www.Boston.com "BLAIRSVILLE, Ga. -- There are towering pines, shimmering lakes, bike trails, target shooting, and cookouts. For Julian White, a Boy Scout camp in the north Georgia mountains seems to be a world away from his life on the streets of Atlanta." To see this story in its entirety, click on the link below or cut and paste it into a Web browser: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/08/15/urban_scout_effort_draws_fire_in_atlanta/ ===================================================================== Closing Quotes: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." ~ First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution "Dissent does not include the freedom to destroy the system of law which guarantees freedom to speak, assemble and march in protest. Dissent is not anarchy." ~ Seymour F Simon ==================================================================== ============================================= *** WHAZZUP? IMPORTANT OSR DATES - 2005 *** ============================================= * August 29, Monday...You have one week to get your board nominations in to the CAC Nominations Committee. Please do so! And what was wrong with the board nominations submitted for the May 5th Slate? * September 5, Monday... Nominations due for CAC members at large, board members, & executive officers with profiles to CAC Nominations Committee Chrmn Dennis Chookaszian at 1218 W Adams St, Chicago. * September 16-19... Owasippe Fall Fixit sponsored by the Owasippe Staff Association. More info at http://www.Owasippe.com. * October 5, Wednesday... Reconvened Chicago Area Council annual meeting for the purpose of voting on five slates of executive officers, board members and members at large. ALL voting members of CAC are highly encouraged to attend and to VOTE their conscience for the good of their Scouting programs!!! Chartered Org Reps and Members at Large should make whatever sacrifices are necessary to be there to vote. * November 25, Friday... Owasippalooza at European Chalet Banquet Hall. Info to follow (formerly known as OSA Pizza Night Rendezvous). * November 26, Saturday... tentative opening day for Owasippe Staff interviews. Location and time TBA. * June 25, 2006... Owasippe's 1st Period opens for its 95th Anniversary Season. Site reservations now being taken. Staff applications now gladly accepted. ====================================================== COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, IDEAS, OPINIONS, CRITICISM, KUDOS ====================================================== The Scarlet Sassafras Blast and Website are private publications and reports and opinions contained therein are not necessarily views shared by this publisher, the Owasippe Staff Association, Owasippe Outdoor Education Center, Chicago Area Council, and the Boy Scouts of America...the latter of which have no direct affiliation to this publication and its related website. If you no longer want to get this periodic bulletin on Owasippe, just e-mail me back at Owasiron@juno.com and type "REMOVE" in the subject if you wish to be taken off of the broadcast list. No hard feelings. >>>-----> Number of subscribers to this edition = 1,175. Help spread the word and forward this bulletin to your friends and family who don't yet directly subscribe. >>> The Scarlet Sassafras, Owasippe's E-zine and "Unwebsite"
  12. CalicoPenn

    Hello Owasippe.

    From today's Chicago Tribune. Boy Scouts decide to hang on to Michigan campground By Gerry Smith | Tribune reporter November 9, 2008 The Chicago Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America said Friday it has decided not to sell part of its Owasippe Scout Reservation, a sprawling campground in Michigan where area Scouts have attended summer camp since 1911. In a statement, the Boy Scouts said backing away from the sale to an investor group based in Holland, Mich., gives them "the flexibility to determine the future direction" of the reservation about 200 miles from Chicago. The Boy Scouts, who own the camp, had signed a contract to sell it for $19 million, hoping to make up for deficits and declining attendance. But in 2006, the governing board in Blue Lake Township, where the camp is located, refused a request for rezoning that would have permitted construction of as many as 1,278 residential units on the property. The Boy Scouts sued the township, claiming it had improperly created an institutional zoning category for the camp, limiting the Scouts' use of the land. A judge in Muskegon County (Mich.) ruled against the Scouts in March. On Friday, the Boy Scouts said they intended to "redevelop a more positive relationship" with Blue Lake Township officials and neighbors and would consider working with conservancy groups to ensure the property remains undeveloped. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-boy-scouts-camp-bulldog-08nov09,0,4357866.story
  13. David CO

    Massive Cuts Coming To Scouting?

    Those of us who were around during the Owasippe struggle might laugh at the suggestion that councils are independent.
  14. scout123

    Camp Owasippe Summer 2007

    My troop was possibly interested in going to Camp Owasippe summer 2007. It sounds like a terrific camp, based on the brochure. Having been to camps in councils that were having financial difficulties, can someone who has been there in the last couple years speak to the condition of the physical facilities at the camp? Thanks
  15. Searching just our previous forums in 2005-2008 timeframe, I found some. Have aspirin handy. http://www.scouter.com/forum/council-relations/23141-hello-owasippe http://www.scouter.com/forum/summer-camp/15361-camp-owasippe-summer-2007 http://www.scouter.com/forum/council-relations/22975-goodbye-owasippe http://www.scouter.com/forum/summer-camp/15221-what-s-going-on-with-owassippe http://www.scouter.com/forum/council-relations/22996-chicago-the-grim-future-of-scouting http://old.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=129632 http://old.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=124597 http://old.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=110007
  16. Jschlich

    Goodbye, Owasippe

    LH writes: "I can only figure that your are referring to the sale of Owasippe Lake which to my knowledge occurred after the change in tax assessment, and some say as a result of the reassessment. Land adjacent to CAC's as I understand it was NOT reassessed at the higher rate at that time. That is to say all the property in that area of that zoning type was not reassessed at that time." I am refering to the CAC disposal of about 8,000 acres of Owasippe property which included Owasippe Lake and all of the Owasippe property that was between that Lake and the current Western boundary of the property. This property disposal (almot twice the size of what reamins of the Owasippe property) created the value that was assesed on the remaining portion of the property. Your statement of understanding is just plain wrong. Perhaps you need to go to the Muskegon County records as well as see the assessor records and ask questions of the assesor to know what the actual evolution of taxes on the property have been. Something that I have done. Is your information based on looking at the documentation and discovering the time line and various events or.... is it based on some campfire talk based on speculation? I'd still like to know where you came up with the information you gave that the Owasippe property was once assessed at "resort rates"? What resort? What proof do you have for saying that? **************** LH further writes: "That says it all. This is not a plan to save "Owasippe" it is a plan to prevent houses being built. Opening the 4800 acres to the public seems like a funny way to "preserve the flora and fauna" and continue the near 100 year camp traditions." Where is your plan? It's real easy to sit by a keyboard and dispense false information, dis people, make judgements and do nothing constructive. You seem good at it. For five years others have done some very heavy lifting to keep the remaining Owasippe property from becoming a housing development. Ahhhhh...yes. I found your statement, you need not explain further. As you said, "IF those originators of the save OWASIPPE campaign sought to use the name and emotional power associated with it to champion their fight then I hope Stone wins and builds as many one room shacks as he can." Another statement based on what? More campfire chatter based on pure emotion and a desire to dis the people, who for whatever reason you woke up with today, who are attempting to do something other than have houses built on the property. Under the plan you obviously know little about, The flora and fauna will be preserved by a conservation easement being placed on the property. A conservation easemant that would limit any redevelopment on the property to the footprints of development that the Boy Scouts created....nothing more. Do you have a Plan LH? What is your Plan?
  17. SSScout

    New Council

    Go we again here... http://www.chicagobsa.org/camping/owasippe-scout-reservation/3820 http://www.scouter.com/forum/camping-high-adventure/400605-chicago-area-council-does-right-and-rebuilds-100-yr-old-owasippe-scout-reservation Good Scouting, Chcago et al. And so forth...
  18. LongHaul

    Goodbye, Owasippe

    I would like to make something clear once again. There are two separate concerns pertaining to "Owasippe". One concerns 4765 acres of land in Michigan's Manestee National Forest and one concerns a BOY SCOUT CAMP which has been in existence since 1911. When Jschlich speaks about saving Owasippe, and he speaks about the formation of the OOEC (Owasippe Outdoor Education Center)he speaks about 4765 acres of land. Jschlich is a resident of Blue Lake Township in which Owasippe exists. He says that >>"There is no concerted effort to stop the sale of Owasippe...the controversy is about the building of houses or keeping it as camp property, probably under an owner who supports the concept of a youth camp facility on the property."<< He has in the past repeatedly stated that the opposition to the sale has nothing to do with the "governance issues" within the Chicago Area Council. If Jschlich and the OOEC get their way there will no longer be a BOY SCOUT CAMP on the 4765 acres of land serving the SCOUTS of Chicago Area Council. Chicago Area Council may possibly no longer exist after this is finished but even if it did still exists the current board will never authorize a BOY SCOUT CAMP connected with CAC to be sponsored on that land. Owasippe will no longer exist, all we will have is 4765 acres of land that the new owners want to call the OOEC. The fight to prevent the sale and loss of our BOY SCOUT CAMP has not stopped it is only less visible due to the lack of people willing to openly support that effort. Stopping the loss of our camp is a matter of principle for some of us not an effort to protect our own interests. If CAC was going to sell the land to the Gerald Ford Council which owns and operates the camp across the street from Owasippe there are those of us that would be fighting that sale. Jschlich would not be one of that group. I have nothing against Jschlich or the OOEC but this is a BOY SCOUT forum and the loss of Owasippe as a BOY SCOUT camp is far more important than protecting someone's back yard and personal interests. If CAC were planning to expand and open 5 more camps Jschlich would not be hollering about the flora and fauna or the preservation of the land. It's not the land they want to save; it's there personal interest that are threatened. LongHaul
  19. Jschlich

    Goodbye, Owasippe

    I'm going to leave comment about the governance issues and election to someone closer to what transpired in Chicago earlier this year. All I really know is that a new Board and all was elected and took their seats in March. **** Concerning the overall concerns and background that "eolesen" brought up: The "Save Owasippe" campaign is very wide across the region and was most evidence of the supported of the campaign begins at the residences adjacent to the Owasippe property. The Chicago Council has voted to sell the Owasippe property and the legal actions are all centered around zoning issues. There is no concerted effort to stop the sale of Owasippe...the controversy is about the building of houses or keeping it as camp property, probably under an owner who supports the concept of a youth camp facility on hte property. ***** About the comment about distance from Chicago I have to make the following observations from over the last 96 years: In the early part of the 1900's the Chicago Scouts boarded Lake Michigan Steamers and traveled to Owasippe from Chicago. In the mid-1900's the Chicago Scouts rode Pere Marquette Railroad trains from Chicago to Owasippe. Around the 1960's and 70's the Chicago Scouts rode in school bus caravans to Owasippe. Currently Chicago Scouts travel to Owasippe mostly by private vehicle. Considering the improvements in interstate travel time over almost 100 years I have to question if the distance is really the issue or if it is a matter of a change of society. If you can't get to it fast.....is it really worth anything??????
  20. Shades of Owasippe ... http://www.scouter.com/search?q=Owasippe&searchJSON=%7B%22keywords%22%3A%22Owasippe%22%7D
  21. David CO

    OA and the aboriginal cultures

    Stosh, do you think this issue needs to take on an all or nothing approach, or do you see a middle ground here? You mentioned two areas that might be improved, "less than authentic dress" and "rituals reflected of their religion." If OA insisted on authenticity and shied away from religious rituals, do you think that would do it? By the way, cultural appropriation issues go beyond OA. Take Chief Owasippe of Chicago Council's Owasippe Scout Reservation. Do I see a Western styled headdress on a Great Lakes tribal character?
  22. Jschlich

    Goodbye, Owasippe

    Here is an update on the Owasippe property status. The Blue Lake Township Planning Commission voted to not recommend the residential rezoning proposal of Owasippe advanced by the Chicago Area Council. The issue now goes forward to the Muskegon Area Planning Commission for review and, following that, to the Township Board. There are several more months of consideration before the rezoning proposal has a final disposition with the Township Board. The Township Planning Commission based their recommendation on extensive research and public comment. More than 2,600 people expressed their opinion in writing. Of that total less than 1/2% were in favor of the rezoning proposal. 99%+ clearly let the Commission know that there should be no change to the zoning and Master Plan of the township that would allow residential development of the Owasippe property. The current zoning for the almost 7.5 square miles of Owasippe is for forest recreational use by institutions. This zoning applies to Owasippe as well as four other camps, operated by other not-for profits, located within the Township. The Muskegon Area-wide Plan (MAP Project, 2003) has established the following community goals that are relevant to the future of the Owasippe property: a)Promote natural resource based tourism and the countys quality of life as an economic development tool. b)Encourage partnerships with government, local organizations and businesses to help achieve local and regional economic development goals. c)Protect the valuable farm and forestlands, wetlands, surface and groundwater resources, wildlife habitat, and opportunities for passive and active recreation. d)Limit adverse impacts on environmentally sensitive lands by encouraging redevelopment and increasing densities in cities, where necessary and desired. e)Protect and preserve natural resources and continually improve the quality of air, water and land resources found in Muskegon County. f)Foster increased environmental sensitivity and voluntary stewardship through public-private partnerships, federal-state-local cooperation and public education and outreach. g)Identify strategies that will manage growth and support reinvestment in urban areas and promote rural viability. h)Link natural resource protection with development to reduce loss of important natural resources and open spaces in urban and rural areas. i)Develop policies and regulations to address the quantity and quality of water resources. j)Mitigate environmental and human health impacts to important natural resources. k)Protect the watersheds and shorelines of Lake Michigan and the inland lakes of Muskegon County. l)Develop integrated and coordinated land use planning in rural areas to revitalize small towns. Link natural resource protection with residential development and maintain working landscapes (agricultural, natural resource tourism, forestry, etc). m)Develop policies to ensure land is available to provide employment opportunities, variety of housing types, open space and natural areas, and access to goods and services based on future projected needs. n)Encourage compatible land use plans between adjacent jurisdictions by updating land use plans, zoning ordinances and regulations. o)Work collaboratively to encourage economic diversity throughout the region and reduce competition between communities. p)Prioritize water and wastewater facility improvements consistent with the distribution of the regions population, employment and planning while emphasizing water conservation and reuse. q)Provide infrastructure systems in both urban and rural communities utilizing existing infrastructure capacity where it exists before developing new infrastructure. r)Promote coordination and enhancement of arts, cultural, recreation and historic resources in the county. s)Develop partnerships between government and non-government organizations to improve the health of the environment and individuals. It is sad that the Chicago Council made no effort to have discussions with local government officials concerning the property before advancing a residential development proposal that is so contrary to the goals of the local community. Tens of thousands of dollars have been and will continue to be spent by the Council to try and work against the desires and goals of the local community. Those are dollars that could be going towards program in the Council. There is a vision for the Owasippe Property that has been advanced by the Owasippe Outdoor Education Center that can meet the goals of both the Council and the local community. That vision is shared at www.ooec.org. Thank you to all who have supported the effort to preserve the Owasippe property. More work will is ahead and your continued support is needed to reach a resolution that can benefit both Scouting and the local community.
  23. Jschlich

    Goodbye, Owasippe

    LH - First of all I don't know who you address as Joe. Then, I want to repeat something from two years ago, "I believe that the Owasippe Outdoor Education Center was created as an effort to find a single solution that satisfies all interested parties. Fundimental to the OOEC effort is that the property remain zoned FR-I, not rezoned to allow residential development. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see the Council recind the sale and go forth with a long-range redevelopment plan for the Owasippe property. It is something that could have been done decades ago." Nothing I have said has changed over the past two years, the OOEC still has the same mission and goals. That can be checked out on the OOEC web site www.ooec.org. I suggest that it is you who has changed position and opinion. More power to you, such is anyone's right. ************** Also you write: "If after all the years and all the many scouters that have passed thru Blue Lake Township OWASIPPE means only "property that THE EXECUTIVE BOARD OF CHICAGO AREA COUNCIL NOT THE MEMBERS OF CHICAGO AREA COUNCIL want to built houses on then again I hope Stone wins." The members of the Chicago Area Council have allowed their Council to sell all of the Council's camping properties. So, your desire has been met. There happens to be many Scouters and people from across West Michigan and beyond who feel the preservation of the Owasippe property so that Scout camping can continue there is of great importance. It happens also to be part of that feeling that additional uses of the property (other than for residential development)are necessary for the property to be viable in the long term. ******** The current court action has nothing to do with the OOEC. It has everything to do with the Chicago Council attempting to have the zoning of the property changed. The Council is the plaintiff and the township is the defendent. ********* The State of Michigan allows not-for-profits to hold 400 acres of land tax free. This is almost double the size of the typical youth camp across the country. Beyond the 400 acres the property is taxed no matter what not-for-profit owns it. The specific case of Owasippe is that there are almost 4,800 acres owned and the 4,400 acres is taxed as camp "support land". The actual tax paid is about $14.00 an acre as "support land". I think that is a rather kind treatment for about 7.5 square miles of property featuring about 9.5 miles of waterfront. ************** You write: "I was actually happy when BLT rezoned this time as I wanted the Camp to remain but if it's just a GOVERNANCE ISSUE over what an owner can do with their property then I think I'll start telling all the CAC members to stop sending money to the BLT defense fund and the OOEC fund and spend it on the boys instead. Blue Lake Township deserves as much support from US in their fight as as they show us in ours." The fact is that CAC members have already sanctioned the spending of about $1,000,000.00 to contest the zoning of the Owasippe property and the meter is still running. Before the local Circuit Court has even issued a final ruling in the case (final arguments aren't even due until next week)the current CAC Board has filed an appeal with the Michigan Appeals Court. Ka-ching, more of that property sale and FOS money to fight for the right to build house on Owasippe. So LH, your wish is being fulfilled. ************** I find it sad that so much money is being spent on a legal contest when it could be better spent on a Scouting program. But it is the fiduciary responsibility of the CAC to use it's resources wisely to advance their mission.
  24. LongHaul

    Goodbye, Owasippe

    From the OOEC web site; Will Owasippe continue to be used as a Boy Scout camp? Yes, we certainly hope so. Owasippe will offer outstanding programs and facilities and will make them available to any BSA Council or individual Scout Troop or Venture Crew. The OOEC would assure that the Owasippe facilities, staff and operations will meet or exceed the National Standards of the BSA before making it available to Scouts. The OOEC would love to have the Chicago Area Council as an anchor client. We have no reason to think that Boy Scouts will stop wanting to use the property for summer camping, and we can assure that it will be available to them. We are keenly aware that the history of Owasippe is Scout camping, and we have no intention of ending that rich tradition. It is important to note that National Standards do not require that a camp operating a BSA program must be owned by a BSA Council. So long as National Standards are met and adhered to, Scout camping can happen at a non-Council-owned facility. <<<<<<< The Chicago Area Council, should it still exist, will never endorse a Boy Scout Camp on this property and thereby admit to having been mistaken in selling the property in the first place. The OOEC has no plans to run a Boy Scout Camp itself. I hopes someone else will step up and undertake this effort. The OOEC hopes that all those troops that are not and have not been coming to Owasippe while it was council owned will now see the light and support the OOECs efforts. As I have stated there are two issues here, while those of us concerned in preserving our Scout Camp fully support the efforts of the OOEC and others the reverse is not the case. Owasippe will no longer exist after the sale, the land will remain but Owasippe isn't JUST 4765 acres of land. LongHaul
  25. ps56k

    OLD(?) SCOUT CAMPS

    Here is some info on one of the oldest Boy Scout camps that is still barely hanging on - Owasippe - Chicago Area Council - 94th year - --- THE SCARLET SASSAFRAS...Fall Colors Blast ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ October 7, 2004 "Owasippe's Unwebsite & E-zine", http://scarlet_sassafras.tripod.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ S-A-V-E O-W-A-S-I-P-P-E I-N-T-A-C-T F-O-R A-L-L ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Opening Quote: "We learned to be patient observers like the owl. We learned cleverness from the crow, and courage from the jay, who will attack an owl ten times its size to drive it off its territory. But above all of them ranked the chickadee because of its indomitable spirit." Tom Brown, Jr., The Tracker ================================================================== Summer Camp To Run At Owasippe In 2005, It's 94th Anniversary Year ================================================================== As in 2004, Owasippe will operate section camps at Blackhawk and Wolverine, its Crown High Adventure Base, the Reneker Scouter Family Resort, and other outpost programs. Fees are to be set by October 15th. Campsite and Reneker cabin reservations are now being accepted at the CAC Camping Service department. For reservation forms and program specifics, go to the Chicago Area Council website section on camping... http://www.chicagobsa.org/Owasippe.htm Last summer saw a marked increase in attendance over 2003 and reservations for summer camp are ahead of schedule. Estimates have put this summer's attendance in excess of 3,800 youth and adults which is roughly 200 more than in 2003. Out-of-council usage and demand appears to be escalating and reportedly is outpacing that of CAC's. A Venture Crew summer program at Owasippe has also been submitted for consideration to the council and it is currently under review. More detailed program info will come as it is finalized and available. Scout and Webelos program options are also under scrutiny. Summer camp staff applications are now being accepted and those forms are available via The Scarlet Sassafras "Campstaff and More" or directly from CAC's website at http://www.chicagobsa.org/Owasippe.htm. Click onto the below site links for more useful information on Owasippe 2004/2005... "Owasippe Overview"... http://scarlet_sassafras.tripod.com/id2.html
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