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  1. Here is the deal @RichardB. A rule that supposedly has been a round for a few years, yet NO ONE , including councils, knew anything about except for you is being placed up on us for no reason whatsoever. In fact we pointed out instances in BSA's own literature that showed the rule is brand new. And the were taken down. We, the unit serving volunteers want to know why it is acceptable for a pack to camp two nights at a council event, but not on their own at a council approved location? We want an explanation as to why something that has been allowed for over 20 years is no longer allowed.
  2. Don't worry, I am still waiting for the FAQ on Dodgeball to be changed. Before they took it down off their website, I pointed out how Dodgeball, and several varients, were approved games by BSA, and gave them the link. They took down the link, but never changed the FAQ. Thankfully print copies showing they are lying about Dodgeball exist.
  3. @RichardB, when you going to remove the lie about Dodgeball from the Prohibited Activities FAQ? Dodgeball, and several variants have been approved BSA games since at least 1929's Scoutmaster Handbook. As recently as 2010, it was approved. A lot of comments from long time Scouters is the lack of trust and transparency we are seeing at the national and council levels. The Dodgeball lie does not help matters.
  4. @RichardB, can you shed any light on BSA actions in other instances (without too many specifics, obviously)?? I could see where, if unit supervision allowed Scouts to play Vertical Dodgeball, climb up 20 feet in some trees (tree climbing and Dodgeball being prohibited activities), and one fell to his death, that they could deny coverage and allow civil suits against the adults to proceed without any support. Anyone have any light to shed on this??
  5. Don't remind me. I know of a council that is doing a dodgeball tournament as a fundraiser. I almost asked if they knew Dodgeball has been banned by the BSA since 2018, but decided to stay out of it. However some volunteers are questioning why the council can have a Dodgeball tourney, but the units cannot.
  6. As others have mentioned, the G2SS is constantly being updated, to the point that even the professionals cannot keep up with all the changes (kinda sad when I have to tell the SE something is no longer allowed in the GTSS) Prior to 2012, patrols could camp on their own without adults. UP to 2018, patrols could do day activities: meetings, hikes, grocery shopping, etc, on their own without adults. So back in our day, what happened with your troop, your older Scouts taking over without adults, was perfectly acceptable. While @RichardB is a product of the program and should know
  7. First, I do thank @RichardB for commenting on this forum. Most from National wouldn’t and it’s great that he participates. Also, I do think the last version of G2SS made some updates that helped, specifically regarding use of tools. Perhaps there are some specific areas that we think could be relooked at. I get the complaints about patrol only activities with no adults. Perhaps there could be flexibility there. I’m not sure it is possible in today’s world of liability but perhaps. I cannot think of many clubs in high school that meet without adults present … I know dodge
  8. @RichardB I know better than to not follow the rules. So I do my best to keep up with BSA policies to the point that I have often had to tell my council's professional staff what is and is not allowed by BSA as they are not aware of the latest rules. My biggest problem is that BSA continues to break the first point of the Scout Law, Trustworthy, with the repeated lie in the FAQ found here https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/ , that "Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting." As I have shared with you and others repeatedly THA
  9. Yes, BSA is LYING about Dodgeball. The Ban went into effect in 2018, and even after the Dodgeball ban, you could still find Dodgeball and several variants on scouting.org website as recommended games.
  10. Just a heads up, and I don't want to get into the 437th debate about whether this was a good/bad decision on the part of BSA, but BSA banned dodgeball a few years ago. BSA now claims that they ALWAYS banned dodgeball, and yet there is a ton of evidence to the contrary from BSA's own documents and a subject debated in this forum since 2003. https://www.scouter.com/search/?q=dodgeball&updated_after=any&sortby=newest
  11. This is pretty much how we run our program. No advancement focused outings (though we do things on outings that shockingly can be used), and time for unstructured activities. At summer camp we have them do the MB classed in the morning, after lunch, go have fun. Every summer we have to talk some parents down off the ledge that summer camp fun is measured by completed merit badges. That's not how this works (or shoudn't) Typically some activity in the morning, like hike a gorge, kayak, wide game, etc. Afternoon are options to continue, nap., go beat on stuff with sticks. Non
  12. Yeah, that is a bit odd. Though there are no gaga pits at the schools in my area (at least town) and the one at the scout camp we went to was removed. However, they appear to be more common than schools playing dodgeball. I'm not sure why gaga is considered safer than dodgeball.
  13. Since 2018 or 19, dodgeball is now banned. In fact at one point, National stated in the FAQ that Dodgeball had never been an approved Scouting Activity. It took a while, but they finally corrected the FAQ. Dodgeball has been an approved game since as early as 1929 when the 3rd. Edition SMHB listed it as a recommended game. Even after it was banned in the Guide to Safe Scouting, you could still find it on the BSA's website as a game to play at troop meetings. Next game to get banned will probably be GAGA Ball. National has already said they were looking into it.
  14. When Dodgeball is outlawed only Outlaws will play dodgeball They can have my dodgeball when they pry it from my cold dead hands Dodgeball..it's not about hunting
  15. Shooting Sports guide. Page 100. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf ... Must be bio-degradable and ping pong sized. Ok with catapult and sling-shot. Never aimed at a person. .... It can be argued that the rule applies to only shooting events. The specific rules are under catapults and sling shots. ... So, throwing a water balloon by hand is not subject to shooting sports rules. Then, look at Guide To Safe Scouting ... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf ... "Prohibited Activities ... 15. Activities where participants shoo
  16. Why should I be surprised. Risk Management folks STILL are lying about "Dodgeball has never been an approved BSA activity," even after I cited multiple references to Dodgeball in BSA literature dating to 1929 AND screen captured a SCOUTING.ORG webpage showing it is an approved game even after the ban (they quickly took it down). Why do I feel like I am in 1984?
  17. Thanks @RichardB, but the FAQ is disingenuous at best. It would have been more honest to say that, as recently as 2012, BSA publications presented dodgeball as an activity to look upon with admiration. (See https://headsup.boyslife.org/epic-dodgeball-game/ "Check Out This Epic Dodgeball Game" where Boy's Life writers proclaim, "Students at the University of California, Irvine recently participated in the world-record “Largest Dodgeball Game,” as 6,084 students launched little red balls at one another. Sounds like a blast!".)
  18. I know zip-a-dee-doo-dah about the STEM program. Please suffer me one question and one thought. Once the latter is out there I will be at my quota for the day. 1. Is there anything offered in the schools or elsewhere that's attached to an outdoor and character building organization like Scouts? 2. For an entire segment of the population STEM and bookish things are what they do, at least in part. I raised 2 boys and 2 girls. One of each would do traditional Scouting, though they didn't for obvious reasons. The other two can and did "light" outdoor adventures but an all OUTING scenari
  19. The term, "it happened on your watch" seems most apt. If the whole of society is to blame and liable for everything culturally "winked at" that then manifests in isolated cases - families, churches, youth organizations, schools, and, etc. - thereby exonerating the overseeing entities who specifically winked at specific incidents that occurred while they were stewarding children, we've entered the twilight zone. If only perpetrators/the direct actors are responsible, we are in a world of hurt. Well, that was stupid. We already are. To be concise, the BSA is not more to blame than the
  20. Hey Skeptic - I can't argue with what you're saying. Scouting grew up when folks made it up as they went along - based on the principles of Scouting, and it grew phenomenally. Your story is just one of many. It's sad that unit leaders have to play dodgeball with the rulebook now. I'm just going to keep on working with our Troop and a few friends in other Troops, and looking for resources to support the work. And hey Eagle 94-1A - saw another one of your posts about how your Scouts and Troop are doing - keep it up, man! The answers won't be found in the professional ranks - there are Tro
  21. @InquisitiveScouter, thanks for the webinar. Very interesting in that there will be no pamphlet, just a digital guide for the counselor. My concerns are A) will it be maintained and B) will there be an archive of previous directives, guides, etc. I have personally seen how BSA has attempted to change history by ignoring facts. Best example was Dodgeball. At one point BSA was saying Dodgeball has never been an approved activity, despite it being an approved activity since at least 1922. Thankfully they removed that untruth from the FAQ.
  22. Do you really trust National? I have been told a lot of things that National would not do over the years, only to see them change policy and do it. And National does not have a history of being Trustworthy. Look at the "Prohibited Activities FAQ" found here: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/ . One Questions is "Q. Why can we no longer play dodgeball? A. Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting....." Even after pointing out this error to National by showing them a Scouting.org link it saying it is an approved game and asking them t
  23. With all due respect, nothing in the CO agreement prohibits it. Nor is there any prohibition in the Guide to Safe Scouting. Only place that rule can be found is NCAP, and how many units use that since that is for district/council level day camps and camps? Besides, BSA has a history of changing the rules with little to no advance notice. Remember when 18-20 years olds could not count from as a second adult from February 1, 2018 to March 10? It got changed from because units complained because they did not have enough adults to cover summer camp and HA bases. You guys decided to wait until
  24. I guess dodgeball is an official fundraiser now. https://www.summitbsa.org/dodging-for-adventure/ https://www.samhoustonbsa.org/dodgeball https://michiganscouting.org/dodgebrawlgr/ Dodgeball has never been an approved activity in Scouting., RRRRRIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.
  25. There has always been an attitude that council and national office employees and boards are just idiots. Those employees don’t know the real world and we are not following their rules. It doesn’t matter if it is dodgeball, squirt guns, separate sleeping tents, bee keeping, swimming, or youth protection....there is always a group that will break the rules and do their own thing. More Youth will be molested in BSA.
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