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Showing results for 'Owasippe'.
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Summer Camp observations - New Scouts and Troop sizes
Cburkhardt replied to Jameson76's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Summer Camp Experiences GREAT This Year Nothing is ever perfect, but my 2 experiences at summer camps this year showed me that we are moving in the right direction. I dropped my beautiful daughter off at Owasippe (reservation for Chicago area located in SW Michigan) to serve as a CIT and stayed 5 days with my wife. The spirit of the Scouts and Scouters could not have been better. Only 4 campsites remained available for the entire summer. Demand is through the roof. Better yet, there was relief and optimism on the part of the Scouters I met about the departure from bankruptcy. C -
The principal thought about Scouts BSA for girls is that it is so dramatically different as a program from GSUSA at the 11-18 age group that we are not in competition with them. I do not believe the girls in our troop would be happy in a GSUSA unit because they are looking for the rigorous and frequent outdoor programming we offer. I recall being shocked by the fighting words used by their national leadership when we first opened to girls. They have not been harmed by our program opening to girls and I was surprised they were not more confident in their own offerings at the time.
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A few responses to recent posts. As background, I’ve been on two council boards (a small council and one of the largest in the country, on which I served as Council President) and was directly involved in dealing with needed property closures and sales – but we did it the right way. Everything was public and transparent more than a year in advance and all adult and youth members were given multiple rounds of opportunities to give input to the decisions – and changes reflecting that input were made. Not everyone is going to be happy in these and other contested situations, but when Scouters
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Council Executive Boards and Council Executive Committees (subcommittees of the Executive Board consisting of the principal officers) meet in private with members only, plus special guests who make presentations on pending topics. CORs belong to the Council, which meets to elect the Executive Board during the annual business meetings. Including numbers of non-members in Executive Board or Executive Committee meetings is disfavored due to confidentiality issues. Non-members attending would not be bound to confidentiality and would further expect to express viewpoints and arguments. Well
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BSA Family Adventure Camp?
Cburkhardt replied to InquisitiveScouter's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I posted many times about our Family Camp for Pathway to Adventure Council (Chicago). This is located at historic Owasippe Scout Reservation at "Camp Reneker". While it is a specifically-developed facility and program apart from the Scouts BSA program areas, it is popular and a great offering for our Scouting families. We are in a new era for the business-side of camp operations and will need the income stream to maintain our camps in the post-bankruptcy era. -
Some camps (at least Owasippe and maybe another) I have heard of have a camp / campsite for this. It is hard work, but, nothing stopping you.
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Which BSA properties have you visited this Summer?
Cburkhardt replied to Cburkhardt's topic in Open Discussion - Program
The Family Camp at Chicago's Owasippe is splendid. The family camp (Camp Reneker) is a 60-year-old operation that was built to accommodate the families of "on duty" Scouters. The Chicago-area Scouters camp with the Troop and the families have their own special program at the family camp. Owasippe hires about 10 college students, who conduct a summer program targeted to 6 age groupings ranging from 4-year-olds through high school. The 40 cabins have kitchens, living rooms, and two bedroom spaces, with nearby shower houses. The family camp has its own pool, activity shelter, tennis court, b -
Which BSA properties have you been to this summer and how did it go? No serious discussion allowed in this posting! No bankruptcy, YPT, membership standards, COVID, fingers-getting-severed, "I don't like the professionals", "they sold my camp" and other potentially distressing discussion allowed under penalty of getting jello thrown in your face! For me, I have had two separate one-week stays at the spectacular 5,000-acre Goshen Scout Reservation in Virginia, just south of Shenandoah National Park. The first week was with our all-girl Troop. My wife (an ASM) and Star Scout daughter
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However, without the qualifier "Available", that statement isn't very useful. Regardless of what many folks would like to believe, many of those assets are restricted (certainly not all of them though). And even where they aren't restricted, they often wouldn't end up on the table in anything but a liquidation. Quite frankly, even among those assets LCs have been selling, I suspect if you actually looked into the past you'd find out the properties were donated on the condition that they be used as scout camps but they've managed to skate by and get them sold without the families involv
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Napowan will be sold off by the PAC (merged old Chicago Area plus others). They recommend going to Owasippe. https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Camp-Napowan-Property-Update.html?soid=1127193000603&aid=9Y0yimgjomo
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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan
David CO replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Many of those people were banned from scouting for non-sexual reasons. I knew someone who was banned for protesting a camp closure (Owasippe) while in uniform. I thought there was something blatantly unfair about the process. The council guys could appear in uniform to speak in support of selling the camp, but the opponents were told they could not wear the uniform. Double standard. I believe he was banned for opposing the sale, not for wearing the uniform. That was just the excuse they used to get rid of him. Some people are talking about the IV files as if everyone who was -
Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan
grizzly702 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
I seem to remember that the courts have already ruled that Owasippe can not be sold unless it was a camp. The new owners could not develop it due to zoning. I think this was in federal courts. This was part of the whole Chicago Area Council attempt to get money that resulted in several court cases, 2 different executive boards, the scout exec being fired, CAC with condtional charter and several million spent on lawyers already. -
The Boy Scouts In Crisis - A Historian's Perspective
SSScout replied to gpurlee's topic in Issues & Politics
Yep. Search Owasippe here in Scouter dot com. It was an adventure to read, for sure. The CORs managed to wake alot of people up. The local county zoning board managed to take control of their county and by refusing to rezone the property in essence prevented the camp from becoming a lake resort. But Chicago Council still managed to sell off two of their three camp properties before National pulled the strings. I forget, who got the profits there? The CORs are the voting corporate board of a council. -
Great question. Here is the answer. Over the coming years small facilities will be added to the bases to allow family members to come and experience the sites in a family-appropriate way. This can take place at the time a unit visits or entirely unconnected with a unit visit. A program track for youngsters will be offered. They have been doing this for a long time at Philmont and at the iconic Owasippe Scout Reservation, the pristine 5,000-acre preserve for Chicagoland and Northwest Indiana (the Pathway to Adventure Council). Owasippe has operated its family camp for 55 years and has 40
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Major Changes Announced -- Councils Impacted
Cburkhardt replied to Cburkhardt's topic in Issues & Politics
I am an optimist and view things quite directly and simply. There are very lengthy and detailed discussions about the addition of female members and the concept of "Family Scouting" that anyone on this site can go back and read. I carefully followed the debate and read the surveys that were widely distributed back then and was convinced that admitting siblings who were girls into separate Troops was the right way to go. I'm not going to go back and re-discuss that content, other than to say it was very convincing and made common sense. The Family Scouting policy did not change one word -
Major Changes Announced -- Councils Impacted
Cburkhardt replied to Cburkhardt's topic in Issues & Politics
Family Camping. Our traditional programs will continue to be our traditional programs. Mom, Dad, little Ken and the dog will not attend Scouts BSA and Venturing campouts. However, the camps that we end up retaining through bankruptcy will fully welcome family camping in the designated family camping areas. And yes, we'll get family camping fees when these wonderful Scouting-supporters use our best facilities (because we will only keep the very best after the downsizing). And yes, we'll finally get better utilization of our facilities as a result. Some of our best camps, like Owasippe, ha -
We were in Calumet Council when the PTAC merger came about, and I remember a lot of anxiety about what properties would be sold off and which would be retained - the only guaranteed property that would be kept was Owasippe. I was told at one of our roundtables that prior to the merger that Cal Council was going to use their excess capital and "a lot of dedicated volunteers" to upgrade their properties, so they would be less likely to be sold off. As far as I'm aware, it was most of the old Des Plaines Valley Council properties that were the ones to be sold off. Finances aside, as a Cub
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What a day, and what a couple of years it is going to be as we go through this. By the way, thanks everyone for contributing to my recent postings. Hope we came up with some good initiatives and tactics to use as we go forward. Tort lawyers in the US are among the best advocates in the world. The people arrayed against the BSA are very good and their obligation is to take the BSA down and take every penny, including selling the very last basketry merit badge stool kit in the warehouse. The technique to do this is to first take a run at killing the BSA outright. This would be attempted
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BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"
Cburkhardt replied to mrkstvns's topic in Issues & Politics
Cheers to Philmont and National! The upgraded tents for families sound great and are exactly what we need at this time. We need more of this across the BSA property footprint where appropriate and soon. The Philmont Training Base is not the back country, and never has been. Wade Phillips built his magnificent mansion complete with its own small row of hotel rooms before the BSA was ever a factor. It was used to bring in people from around the world to experience the American West who otherwise would not have ventured there. The result? The land and wildlife was experienced, preserve -
Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes
Cburkhardt replied to Cburkhardt's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Our $40,000 yearly budget includes everything for 40 Scouts. So, the all-in expense to the Troop of a Scout is about $1K/year. Includes all program and recognition, weekend campouts, summer camp, but not the annual special trip. This is less than the cost of a single "travel team" away game where a child and parent fly somewhere. Scouts BSA is truly a bargain in comparison to just about any other youth activity. We can all be very proud of this. Our special annual trip is modest. This year a 4-day camping trip including a day visit to the World Jamboree (will probably charge somethi -
Family Scouting Coming to You!
Cburkhardt replied to Eagle94-A1's topic in Open Discussion - Program
At Owasippe the practice during the main season has now spanned many Scouting generations and absolutely has a vibrant life of its own. I think if there are usable facilities available, councils are crazy not to allow people use them during the main season. I go so far as supporting the idea of establishing carefully-managed trailer use in segregated parts of camps. The Memorial-Labor Day approach is a good introduction to our properties for families, but does not let families and younger siblings experience the wonder of a huge closing camp fire, for instance. -
Family Scouting Coming to You!
Cburkhardt replied to Eagle94-A1's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Family camping at our properties is a great idea. A few camps like the iconic Owasippe Scout Reservation in Michigan (the Reservation that serves Scouting for the greater Chicagoland metropolitan area) have dedicated facilities that are run like this for the entire season. That council has been doing it successfully for 55 years. More of this kind of offering will further establish us as the full-family option and will cause Scouts to spend a week with their family in addition to their Troop’s week of traditional camp. At Owasippe the families of Scouters have been simultaneously staying i -
Yes, the BSA good ol' boys network sometimes is an embarrassment. I am reminded of some past events. Do we remember Owasippe? This Scout Reservation in Michigan became the unwarranted center of discussion some years back. Chicago Council started selling off camps and other property , a Scouter raised flags, garnered support, National got into the fray and lots of bad PR erupted. Somebody wanted the money somewhere.... We have lots of back and forth here on Scouter dot com, you can research it. Then we have the recent New England, Cape Cod Camp brou haha. Same issue. Let's sell off t
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The only "legal" way around this is to lobby the CORs in all the member Scout Unit COs. The CORs are, by definition, the voting trustees of the Council, no matter how it was /is constituted. If you cannot persuade the PTB of the present Council (are there any not so obvious conflicts of interest?) that what they are proposing is not "Scouty", , then someone (you? ) needs to research the actual ownership of the camp in question. Trust? Deeds? Conditions of transfer? There have been other examples of Scout camps being (or trying to be sold) sold in less than transparent ways. See t
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I understand how it is supposed to work...on paper. This was all explained to me way back during the Owasippe controversy. I also know that it doesn't actually work that way. BSA does not operate the way their corporation paperwork says they should. That was the basis of the Chicago Area Council lawsuit. Yes, the fact that the board has never fired a CSE is a clear indicator that things are not right. These unanimous votes are another. The ridiculously high salaries are the clincher. The governing bodies have no control over the execs. This is what I think should change. The owners of the
