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drhink

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Posts posted by drhink

  1. Jay K said:

    2. You can buy one that was made by a company, and is the exact same thing!

    3. Alcohol IS dangerous: it is very hard to see the flame in conditions of direct sunlight. I've always felt that that fact is balanced by how easy it is to extinguish an alcohol fire with water.

    ---

    Regarding #2, that is true, HOWEVER, it is also possible to make an alcohol stove that is basically an open can of burning alcohol and not resemble any commercially made stove. Which directly relates to #3. By the time a Scout realizes the tuna can full of alcohol he knocked over in bright daylight was on fire, there is likely to be substantial damage to person and/or property. You cannot see an alcohol flame in bright daylight. You will not know you are on fire until you feel your skin melt away. Even us NASCAR rednecks know dat. So rather than attempt to define standards for what constitutes safe versus unsafe homemade alcohol stove designs, it is quite frankly simpler to ban them outright. Liquid alcohol commercial stoves are deemed "not recommended" because of the danger of the fuel when used in daylight. But they aren't banned I'm guessing because the manufacturer has liability for any damages caused by an unsafe design.

  2. "It might be a fine line, but it's definitely there and it's a big difference."

     

    Sure Fred, there's a lot of running around in a dark room with loud music and smoke effects, and that certainly adds to the "fun" of laser tag. But your ultimate objective is aiming "a gun" at a person's vital zone and pulling the trigger. Fred, as an adult, I have no doubt the distinction between laser tag and firearm shooting is clear to you. But I wouldn't be very confident that 100% of 7-18 year old boys could explain what's different.

     

    Not trying to sound too harsh, but not everyone believes in the principles of scouting. That's why not everyone is a scout. There's nothing wrong with having interests outside of scouting, but if you have a strong opinion that something in scouting is wrong, dumb, or otherwise negative, nobody is forcing you to stay.

  3. Fred, while you have strong personal feelings that the GSS ban on laser tag is misguided, as a long time firearms instructor, I respectfully disagree. Military and LE personnel often train with laser based firearm simulators. It provides excellent training with instant feedback on aim and muzzle control, especially while moving. Recreational laser tag is essentially the same except you can be "killed" repeatably after some short penalty time where your gun is disabled. It is a game that simulates shooting other people, period. And that is why the GSS bans it. If that makes my IQ lower than a rock for understanding the intent of the rule, then what does that say about someone doesn't?

     

    At some point with water guns, there's a departure from the simulated shooting of another person to where you are just trying to get the person wet with a spray of water. I guess that's the problem - it's too subjective of a differentiation. And without any mention in the GSS about water guns, I can understand why some CDs would rather error on the side of caution and tell people to leave them at home.

     

     

  4. If you ask me, any plunger-style water pump/shooter/"gun" that doesn't resemble a firearm should be acceptable for scouts to use at camp. Going back to 1992, first there was the "Dip Stik" -- a big syringe made out of PVC pipe. They are still used today on river trips as bailing pumps and there are numerous plans the Internet on how to make something like them. A few years later in 1994, the straight handle was replaced with a more ergonomic angled handle as is still being sold today as the "Stream Machine Hydrobolic Water Launcher". Works as both a bilge pump and a water gun that can shoot a huge blast of water over 50 feet.

     

    Perhaps an easy rule of thumb that BSA could adopt is the "orange tip rule" regarding water guns. If the manufacturer isn't putting an orange safety tip on it, then some federal regulator has decided it isn't a "look-alike or imitation firearm". The orange tip has been a federal requirement since 1988 I for any toy that resembles a firearm, although I cannot find the specific statute or regulation that defines what specific characteristics or criteria are used. Interestingly, the double-barrel Stream Machine model is required to have an orange safety tip but the regular Stream Machine models do not. Supposedly it's because the double barreled model has a fore grip so that makes it look too "gun like". The only caution I'd add is the criteria would need to be based on whether or not the orange tip is present when new in the package. Removing an existing orange safety tip would not make a water gun permissible to use.

     

    Might not be a perfect definition, but it seems like it would be fairly easy to decipher what is allowed and what is not. It could possibly be used to help cover unforeseen "toy guns" in the GSS in addition to water guns. Although paint ball guns and laser tag guns aren't required to to have orange tips, those are specifically mentioned in the GSS, so there's no conflict.

     

     

  5. Getting back to the OP's question, I think the best answers about what needs to be done were those that said it depends on the CO's policies. The whole thing stinks even though it doesn't sound like there was technically a BSA rule violated. The rule specifically says "at any activity", and the word "at" seems to imply some physical proximity. Unless of course the vehicle driver was listed on the tour permit as a driver. If something had happened on their little side trip, it was in connection with the scout camp activity, so there's potentially a real can of worms with your CO's and the BSA's insurance. It doesn't matter if there were scouts in the car at the time. While these two adults may have left the camp site, they were still participants of the unit activity, correct?

     

    I do have to wonder: if they were so eager to brag back at camp about finding a bar (and spending enough time there to judge it a "great bar"), I'd be worried about them possibly having complained to the bartender and anyone else within earshot about "gotta be getting back to our scout camp". I have experienced a parent hearing about staff alcohol use months after a camp, and that kid never being allowed to go to camp again. And people being banned from returning as staff. And other bad stuff happening to otherwise good people. The details about whether or not any technical "rules" were violated won't matter months after the fact. All people will hear is "a Boy Scout Camp Out where some of the adults went to a bar". Clearly, you have a couple people that are not aware of the potential negative impact their actions and words might have on your unit and scouting in general. Those are the issues where it doesn't matter if the two adults were ever impaired or not.

     

    My advice is you should discuss this with your COR right away. If the driver was listed on your tour permit, you should also discuss it with your DE. Better if both of these people hear about it from you than from someone else. If you were the designated leader for the camp out, there's a chance YOU will be shown the door if you don't talk to your COR and/or head of your CO and they catch wind of it later on. When in doubt, pass the buck up and let them decide what to do.(This message has been edited by drhink)

  6. A few folks mentioned the Scout BSA dark green shirt was dropped in 1979. I know my memory isn't what it used to be, but I'm positive our summer camp staffs at BCMSR (Broad Creek Memorial Scout Reservation in Maryland) were wearing the dark green shirts through the early 80's as the standard staff uniform, and I don't remember anyone every saying they had trouble getting them (with the Scout BSA strip). Maybe the Baltimore Area Council just happened to have a bunch of left over inventory they sold to camp staff? Granted, only newer staff members would have been buying them, but a staff photo from 1982 shows everyone in dark green so we were still getting them somehow after 1979. I think the dark green was used by BCMSR staff at least through 1984. Anyone have any ideas how we might have managed that? Like I said, I don't recall anything unusual being required to obtain them.

  7. Our troop has a 37 page Troop Guidelines document. I'd say 50% of the content is geared toward the new parents and explains things like when we meet, when money is due, the types of gear recommended, etc. We do an bi-annual review to make sure there isn't anything inconsistent with the BSA publications. Or I should say, the scouts review it. Each of the four patrols gets 9 or so pages to review and provide any updates for the next year. I know it's a little sneaky, but each patrol's section get's an Easter egg inserted somewhere in the content. It's not all that sneaky because they know there will be one or two things that are blatantly wrong from the changing of a word so it reads the opposite of what is correct. The patrols get a prize for finding it. Just a little thing to help ensure they read through it all. The committee then does their own final review to make sure they didn't miss something (especially the intentional mistakes), and update anything related to finances that may have changed. The other 50% of the content describes the way the troop is run: how discipline is handled, elections, how to request a BOR, etc. The majority of it was decided by the scouts. The PLC basically "owns" the document, so anything that is in it as a troop "policy", they have the power to change it. The SM is responsible to make sure the PLC doesn't try to make a policy that contradicts something in BSA policy.

     

    If our boys end up with a 37 page document that says how the troop is run, I'm not going to tell them it's too long or too short. It may have started out years ago with the help of some adults, but it's all owned and maintained by the scouts now.

  8. I used to think if some of the adults drank alcohol but I didn't know about it or it was kept out of sight, then it wasn't a big deal.

     

    As eisely said, "I want to be sure that adults are fully capable of responding to any emergency".

     

    A funny thing about emergencies: they don't always give you much advanced warning. Once you've had to do an evacuation at 2:30 AM due to sudden severe weather that's ripping trees apart in your campsite, you realize you need every adult on deck and 100% functional. I will not take a chance on someone that cannot put the potential needs of the group above his/her own need for alcohol for just one night.

  9. It seems bugling at scout events has gone the way of the sock garter. I still have my nickle plated Rexcraft "Official BSA" bugle along with a Rexcraft brass army "beater" I carried on camp outs as a youth. I don't play them very often any longer, but I won't part with them. Too much sentimental value. There always seem to be scout and army bugles for sale on EBay, so if you can get one in decent shape for say under $50, maybe invest in one for your troop and see if there's any takers to borrow it. I'd avoid some of the newer cheap bugles from China and India - I've heard nothing but bad things about them, like being wildly out of tune between notes. The old "US Regulation" army bugles made in USA are usually a lot less money than the Rexcraft are going for these days, and are pretty close in quality. Just try to find one that doesn't have too many dents and a bell that doesn't look like a taco. Some small dents are inevitable and OK. Many of the army bugles don't have a tuning slide, which is only an issue if you plan on playing in unison with another bugler. Just one less thing to maintain, in my opinion. Once you get a good used bugle, go to a music store and get a trumpet snake brush. Soak the bugle in a tub of warm mildly soapy water and thoroughly scrub the insides with the snake brush. If the brass is severely tarnished, you can soak the bugle in a dilute ammonia solution (1:10 ammonia to water) for 10-15 minutes then scrub the inside with the brush and the outside with a microfiber cloth. If the outside is still badly tarnished, you can try scrubbing with a cloth using a paste of salt and lemon juice. Don't use steel wool or anything abrasive. Thoroughly rinse and dry before using. Brasso at this point can improve the shine and prevent tarnishing, but I don't like the smell it imparts.

     

    There's such a shortage of buglers that funeral homes have resorted to playing recordings of taps at military funerals. That's just wrong. Get a boy to learn to play taps if nothing else.

  10. Instead of whining about what you can't do, figure out what you can do. Just get a little creative. Ever play soccer with water guns and a beach ball? Works in a pool, in a field, or a parking lot, and shooting water at an inflatable ball is not contrary to GSS. And everybody gets wet, intentional or not. Just make sure you have some rules in place so nobody gets hurt. In the time it takes to read this entire thread, most of you could have invented at least a half dozen games involving water guns where the primary target isn't another person and the probability of staying dry is zero.

     

    Some of the best water battles I can recall were at BSA summer camps where we used the Indian Pumps, although it was officially called "staff camp fire safety training".

  11. OGE - "Time to dump the uniform, wear a neckerchief and be done with it"

     

    I think if you go around wearing just a neckerchief it would be pretty drafty, not to mention the unwanted attention you'd get from law enforcement...

  12. ScoutMomma wrote, "I bet it's the parents who either don't have the funds or don't see the point."

     

    I think it's more of the latter. I hear some of these families complain about spending money on a scout uniform yet we know they think nothing of plunking down $ 50 - 100 bucks PER SEASON for football or baseball uniforms and gear. Not to mention what we hear is spent on the kid's cell phone, XBox with tons of $50 games for it, ipod, etc. It's all relative. I think that was the part gnawing at the back of my mind when I created this thread: How do you get the parents "on board" and make scouting more of a priority (including the uniform)?

     

    BP said Scouting is "A game with a purpose". Just like a boy gets a football, baseball, basketball uniform (etc) to participate in those team games, he should have a scout uniform to play the scouting game.

     

     

  13. Eagle92 - our store is at council headquarters, run by BSA national employees (yellow loopers), so I'm not sure if that answers your question. I was assured that the red jac-shirts are not going away, but they did transition from the old product numbers to new ones to reflect the new XS thru 5XL sizing. It's possible that someone assumed they were being discontinued when the old product numbers got whacked and re-orders were disabled on them in the supply order system. In this case, there are new product numbers taking there place, but not one-for-one, since there used to be more granular sizes. It appears the red are still made in the USA, while the green are imported, but of course this could change and not be reflected in the product numbers.

  14. Hi - new to the forum, but not new to scouting. Also been involved w/ ARC health & safety instruction with some bouts of aquatics safety as well over the past 20 years. Currently I'm an ASM with my son's troop. I tend to run on the old-school side of things, as you'll see from my posts. I've adopted the ARC philosophy of "Teach to the standard, measure to the objective". I seem to encounter a lot of scouts and scouters that get lost pursuing standards but don't seem to really know the program objectives. I figure if just one person gains some insight from something I say, then my time spent here is worth it.

     

    My favorite quote: "A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove...but the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child." - Forest E Witcraft

  15. NJCubScouter asked: "does anyone actually have any BSA literature that says the Troop Committee CANNOT require a uniform?"

     

    Yes. "No council, district, troop, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement." (Troop Committee Guidebook) I recall it's also in the advancement policies, but someone 'borrowed' my copy a while ago.

     

    The rank requirement simply says "Complete a Board of Review". In the scout handbook, a scout is advised a board of review is simply a "talk" and "review" that he has met the requirements.

     

    Throwing in a specific detailed requirement to wear the uniform falls under the "add to" category.

     

    As Eagle92 pointed out from the advancement policies and procedures guide, it states the recommended attire for a scout to wear to a BOR is uniform or coat & tie. But it is NOT a REQUIREMENT.

     

    The "no add or subtract" rule is my giant flyswatter I seem to pull out a lot for committee members when they get a bug in their pants to make up some new hoops for the boys to jump through.

     

    The gray area: as the board reviews that the scout has in fact completed the requirements (but not "retesting"), the requirement "Demonstrate scout spirit [...] in your everyday life." might present a challenge to a scout to explain how he met this requirement if he's not in uniform. If you have a good reason you couldn't wear your uniform to your board of review - a scouting activity - then it better be a darn good one. Like stolen, burned up, or doesn't fit and you can't afford a new one. The point being, the BOR is a formal scouting event, and the scout is expected to approach it in a way that shows respect for the board members. But that being said, if the board members are in shorts and flip flops, they cannot expect better from the scout in front of them. The respect should go both ways. One of the better analogies I've heard explained to scouts is to approach their BOR like a job interview. Of course, few of them will know what that means, so you need to teach them. You might also need to teach some of your committee members...

     

    I'm inclined to agree this was probably a troll posting, because I'd like to think a scout would be smart enough to just make a loop of tape (masking tape, duct tape, etc) and stick the badge on for the duration of the BOR. Pin it on? Who carries around pins? Oh wait, I do in my first aid kits. It all just seems like too unlikely of a scenario for a badge to fall off immediately prior to the BOR and there was no way to re-attach it temporarily. Had it fallen off DURING the BOR, now that would have been funny! "See, look, even my uniform thinks I'm ready for the next rank!" How you could argue with that?

  16. Old_OX_Eagle83 - let me clarify what I meant.

     

    As the text you quoted from the Special Regulations says, the red jac-shirt is designated "official jacket" only by the OA. There's a reason the jac-shirt is under the "Apparel" category on the scout shop and not under the "Uniform" category. Our scout shop sells a variety of jackets, and any that don't already have a scout emblem on the left chest pocket area can have one sewn on to make it acceptable for wear with the uniform under the Special Regulations. At one point years ago (but nobody I've asked seems to know exactly when), the red wool jac-shirt was the only jacket you were allowed to wear over ("with") your uniform, but that is no longer the case. I suppose back then it was consider "the official jacket". But there have been many different jackets sold by national in the past decades and all with a scout emblem may be worn with the uniform. Some of them were /are not marked as officially BSA licensed apparel and they do not have the BSA emblem. But like I mentioned, you are free to add a universal emblem patch to them (for your personal use - not for resale). So what I meant was, although the jac-shirt is "officially licensed" apparel, that doesn't mean it's "THE official jacket" (except as noted for the OA). One reason for the Special Regulations (at some point in the 70's) for jackets was to stop people from covering the back of their jac-shirts with patches. And it is trying to say in a round about way that if you wear a jacket with your uniform, it should have a BSA universal emblem on the left chest. As for color, there are no "offical" specs. Recently, I have seen officially licensed jackets in red, green, navy, tan, gray, yellow and black. There is a red nylon Commissioner Jacket, obviously meant to be worn only by Unit Commissioners, yet I can't find anything that designates it as "the official Commissioner jacket". So I'll concede at some level the red jac-shirt is "official", but I meant by no means is it the only red jacket permitted to wear with the uniform.

  17. (Spun off from the thread on "half uniforming"):

    When a unit has condoned lax uniforming for a period of time, it can be a real uphill battle to get it back on track. Even after showing pictures and video from a national jamboree, you find people (generally parents) that resist full uniforms as the norm. If you have managed to overcome this resistance to wearing full uniforms at meetings and unit activities, I'd love to hear the things you did that worked (and maybe what didn't).

  18. Wasn't this post about half uniforms? Maybe it's time to spin off a new thread about hand salutes and handshakes...

     

    I think the thread title says it all: "half uniform[]". Seems pretty clear by definition what it is or isn't. Just a scout shirt or just scout pants doesn't make a full uniform. Personally, I'd prefer to see a scout come to a meeting in half a uniform instead of no uniform, and full uniform over half a uniform. If I see a scout wear his scout shirt with his baseball pants knowing he came directly from his game, it shows the kind of effort we all hope for. But a unit setting their standard at something below full uniform is simply wrong. I mean, what do you do - go take a black marker and redact the parts of each scout's handbook that explains the scout uniform?

     

    There's a good philosophy used by the American Red Cross: "Teach to the standards, but measure to the objectives." In the case of BSA uniforms, the standards are spelled out in the Insignia Guide, item no. 33066. Uniform inspections - a thing of the past for the most part - were supposed to help educate members of the standards. But the OBJECTIVE is not and never was/is "perfect uniforms". There are four objectives of the BSA uniform: 1. Personal equality, 2. Identification, 3. Achievement, and 4. Personal commitment.

     

    So you might be thinking, "But isn't half uniforming OK if our whole unit does it the same way?". From your unit's standpoint, you're meeting the objective of making all members "personally equal" in attire. But when you go to the district level, council level, or national level activities, you quickly see you are not the same as everyone else regarding the objectives of consistent identification in the community and quite possibly the demonstration of your personal commitment. BSA is bigger than any individual unit, and it's important to see the forest through the trees in that regard. As for allowing substitutions for the official pants, I have no problem with it as long as I can't tell the difference from across a room. I'm not going to ask to see "proof" they are official. (On an aside note, the current official leader wool blend uniform pants - made in USA - have absolutely no permanent BSA marking anywhere - not even the inside tag!) Again, the objective is to look "like every other troop" as far as uniform shirt and pants are concerned. You get to show your unit identity through neckerchiefs and hats, but that's it. Individual achievement is displayed by properly wearing earned rank and awards. The only area there is some room for personal "flair" is your scout-related belt and buckle and perhaps your shoes.

     

    When a unit has condoned lax uniforming for a period of time, it can be a real uphill battle to get it back on track. Even after showing pictures and video from a national jamboree, you find people (generally parents) that resist full uniforms as the norm. If you have managed to overcome this resistance, I'd love to hear the things you did that worked (and maybe what didn't). I'm spinning off a separate thread for this topic, so look for it.

     

    For the anti-uniform crowd - you know who you are - the objectives of uniforming are published policies. They are not "guidelines" nor "optional" - they are part of the national Rules and Regulations. Please read this page: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/01.aspx Then, ask yourself if you are meeting all four objectives of the BSA uniform policy. And pay close attention to the line that says: "The leaders of Scoutingboth volunteer and professionalpromote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions." I don't see any optional qualifiers such as 'some', 'might', 'maybe', 'half' or 'sometimes' in that sentence.

     

    As for complaints about the uniform parts themselves, there are abundant threads regarding those gripes. I'm sure everybody - myself included - isn't 100% happy with every uniform part being sold today or the prices. But it's still our uniform and an integral part of our program. I feel the best way to "teach the standards" is through example by wearing it as correct as you're able. The full uniform is not optional in light of the stated objectives. It's not some obsession with creating a Norman Rockwell landscape - it's an obsession with keeping scouting around another 100 years. The uniform details - the standards - will continue to evolve and change, but the objectives are timeless.

  19. There's a separate thread about the red jackets, so you might want to read it. They are not being discontinued, but the sizing has been "simplified" to replace the old even numbered chest sizing to make inventory simpler to maintain. Only a couple of the old sizes are still available at a closeout price online.

     

    Our scout shop sells a flannel-lined red nylon windbreaker for $10 (like an athletic coach type jacket), so even with the cost for a universal emblem patch to add to it, it's an economical alternative if the course director says "you must have a red jacket". Perhaps not as warm as the red wool, but good enough for group picture time. Keep in mind, there are no "official uniform" jackets per se, since a jacket isn't part of the official uniform.

     

    As for the relatively new debate about red versus green, I'm more a fan of the red, not because I like the color better, but because we seem to do a lot of outings near popular hunting areas more than I'd like. For the same reason, I encourage our scouts to get the brightest, loudest colored ponchos and backpacks they can. Sometimes being safe is more important than looking cool. But of course with boys, once a bunch of older guys start wearing blaze orange knit beanies on fall and winter camp outs, it suddenly becomes the "cool hat" to have.

  20. I don't think trying to make a generic tan shirt into a scout uniform shirt would be worth the trouble unless it already had epaulets, and even then there's still the issue of getting a BSA strip to go above the left pocket - which would require a "donor" official shirt so you still need to get an official shirt, right? There are lots of good condition used uniforms floating around, so even in cases of financial hardship, getting an official shirt shouldn't be an excuse for "making" one.

     

    If it's a question of simply not liking the official shirt, keep in mind there are 3 different official shirts currently (cotton/poly, nylon, and poly microfiber). There don't seem to be any rules against minor tailoring changes, especially if you have a fitting issue that can be addressed with some alterations. I did meet a scouter once who was so tall he couldn't wear official pants because they simply didn't make them long enough, so he got some pants that closely resembled the uniform pants. Pretty hard to slight a 7'+ guy for not being able to buy official pants.

     

    So I think what I'm saying is, if there is a reason related to sizing to make up a "custom" uniform piece, then it's better than not having a uniform. But other than that, there's no valid reason to do it.

  21. The size chart on the web site is completely wrong in the Jac-Shirt table. The older "sized" jackets on clearance in 38-L and 42-L are what they say they are. The table is meant for the current S-M-L type sizing, and is incorrect. A staff person at my local scout store was aware the size chart is wrong, and said just go by the "General Jacket/Vests" part of the table.

     

    So if a 38-L or 42-L works for you, you are still in luck for $19.99 as of today anyway. Also, the red jackets are NOT being discontinued, according to the same store staff person. Between the WB folks and Philmont crews, there is still a strong demand for the red. At least now there is an alternate choice with the new green jac-shirts.

  22. I just recently noticed one of our troop's scouts that took a relatively unique approach to arranging his merit badges on his sash. He placed them three across, but not in rows perpendicular to the edge of the sash. His rows were angled such that they were level when the sash is worn, and by being at such an angle, it allowed for the patches to be spaced slightly apart rather than having all the edges touching as seems to be the case when the rows are done perpendicularly. When the sash was worn, each patch was properly rotated so the top was the highest point. It looked very nice since the badges had more spacing than is normally possible, and the rows can go from shoulder to waist and still look good. It was his idea, and I'm always amazed at the ingenuity of scouts. I never would have thought of it.

  23. Scoutfish asked regarding CPR certification "Is there an adult patch or insignia available for adult leadership to wear on there uniforms?"

     

    I think I answered that in my previous post. Yes, there is a somewhat ugly patch currently still available on closeout, and it is a generic CPR patch for scouts or scouters to wear on their right shirt pocket. And there is an Emergency Preparedness pin that can be earned where CPR/AED & First Aid certification can meet one of the requirements.

     

    But no patch, pin or other insignia provides anyone "authority" in a volunteer first responder situation regarding who should provide care. However, on a scout or cub scout activity, there is always a designated leader in charge - usually the Cub Master or Scoutmaster or an Assistant. There are patches of course for those positions, and that's about as close to an "authority" there is in scouting.

     

     

  24. Desertrat: Really? You honestly believe "the more rules there are, the less any are followed."

     

    The original poster asked if there was a "proper", and the first response was correct in saying "no".

     

    There are two ways people go against the IG standards: 1. things done incorrectly with the uniform because of not knowing the correct standard, and 2. things knowingly disregarded.

     

    The latter reason for deviating from the IG has absolutely nothing to do with how many "rules" there are. When I see scouters disregard something they KNOW is part of the uniform / IG policy, I perfectly understand when the scouts in that troop also disregard the uniform standard. Scouts pick up on even the smallest of things.

     

    Do you feel the same way about advancement standards? If a scout turns in a blue card to his SM after he's completed the MB but never got a leader's signature before starting on the badge, is that OK? Is it OK to modify a rank requirement "just a little bit"? Where do you draw the line versus what the national organization has defined as the standards? I hear it all the time: "We follow most of the BSA standards, except for a handful we don't agree with." I guess we need to bend the definitions of trustworthy, loyal and obedient; but what the heck, they still follow the remaining 75% of the Scout Law to the letter, right?

     

    I don't think it's nitpicking. There's an analogy we use in the software industry regarding even a small deviation from standards: Just a teaspoon of ['sewage'] in a barrel of wine taints the whole barrel. Either you follow the standards, or you don't. If you know the standards yet pick and choose what standards to follow or ignore, expect other scouts and scouters to do likewise, and don't complain when they deviate in a way that bothers you.

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