Double Eagle

I"m sure this camp falls under a council.  How about bringing it up to the council board.  Just not going is good for your unit, but leaves the same problem that would fill your troop's week.  How about identifying the troop to council and camp that took over the latrine.  I'm more of the thinking Scouts can be courteous, but not a weak victim and just take it on the chin.  Standing up for yourself and others is scout like too...brave?   And to those leaders on the site (I hope they contribute) that condone taking over the latrine, you allowed Scouts to show an ugly side of shared camping and will be used as a negative example for some time.

My point about rangers and staff is they still have to be registered, even if a unit has several adults.  Anyone on troop overnighters have to be registered and YPT.  Not looking for the 2-deep piece, but rather who are authorized to stay on overnight events.

The big thinkers in the site are digging into this area, thanks.  As a Scouter not in a unit, registered and YPT District Staff only, I have accompanied camping Troops when they lacked a registered Scouter.  I fit the requirement and we had the campout.  Otherwise, the unit would have cancelled the campout due to lack of adults.  

I'll have to ask the council the question on whether it has to be any BSA registered and YPT adult, or one registered to a specific unit only.  Seems kinda dumb to be a "unit-specific-only" restriction (restriction used lightly).  If unit-registered-adult only, I wonder how they work summer camp and the High Adventure Bases with guides, rangers, and staff that may accompany troops on overnighters.  Philmont Rangers is a good question as they stay multiple nights with treks.

Its a wonder what shop decision makers do at the BSA.  Seems the OA bolo tie is discontinued.  This is not a positive, but rather a negative for any future arrowmen (loose term).  On-line Scoutshop only shows 6 bolos available, 3 are commissioner ones.  They do carry expensive Osprey backpacks and expensive knives no adult would risk taking on a campout.  Seems the days of scouts getting national-branded gear and items is in the past.  Shame as I remember when every scout had a BSA mess kit, canteen, Camillus or Ulster knife, and a vit'l kit.   Old timers had the red wool coats (still available) and campaign hat. SMH at how Scouting has become a rich-kid game and scouts rely on cheap-quality, new stuff, or buy "vintage" items to get what they need.

I was hinting at this in my second paragraph.  Overnighters is the easy explaination.  Unregistered adults attending troop events, whether day trips or things like bowl-a-thons, have been a hot discoussion point within our council.  When in doubt, get the paid Scouters to advise.  

I'm hoping this follows the lines of bearskin rugs.  Where I live and hunt bears, few people ever place their bearskins on the floor to be walked on.  They go on walls to be admired and treasured.  Maybe those will be seen the same way.  Shameful to think our flag would be walked upon and feet wiped on it.

There may some SM mis-interpretation.  Meetings have much different rules for YPT vs outings and overnighters.  Parents or guardians are never banned from observing events/meetings.  Interaction and attending different depending on the event.  Selling popcorn outside store will most likely have unregistered adults mixed with registered adults.  The unit has to enforce YP in that case.  

The biggest recent changes have stressed the "registered" adult versus just any adult.  Event attendance is now for registered adults only thing for scouts, packs have different rules.  

We held an October roundtable to address the recent changes, hold a forum with two scout executives, and have open discussions with interpretation.  Basically, I came away with, if you don't practice YP as outlined (yes, there are a lot of gray areas), the event, scouts, leaders, and Chartered Org may not be covered by council insurance. 

Determine whether you need a 4 season tent or the conditions they will camp overnight.  If a 4 season scout unit, lean towards a good rainfly that reaches to the ground, skip the footprint and get 10mil plastic, a vestibule is good for keeping muddy boots out of the tent.  If they are a 3-season unit, the Coleman Sundowner is pretty popular.  My personal tent is a Eureka timberline 2 with vestibule.  Used on at Philmont in the 80s and liked it.  Been in one for more than 20years and own 3 right now.  Best buy was getting one at a yard sale for $10.  

One word of caution for late cross overs, contact the gaining troop early, say November, to inquire about summer camp location, cost, and penalty for late reservation.  The scout doesn't need to know about financial obligation just yet.  I've had some cross over and not go summer camp until they were established in troop, parents are good with the unit, and work towards the 1st year First Class rank so the next summer, they are working towards program and MB.

A couple of things on this.  No hurry to get them to cross over.  I'm more in favor of late (May) cross overs and enjoy the open calendar to do things as an AOL den besides requirements.  With early cross overs (Dec - Mar), the pack doesn't benefit from having the AOL den participate.  They can do some great things to keep the other dens enthused.

  Hard to say they operate as a patrol with 3 scouts, just my thoughts.  There are no feeder packs so take the extra calendar time to visit troops in the area and not the same chartered org troop.  Troops should be inviting your AOL to events and actively recruit them.  A troop meeting time and day may a decision point for a scout/family.  

As for den chiefs, talk to local troops or hit up a commissioner for the need.  Den chiefs need to be in position for a year (I think) to get awarded their DC award.   

A few quick comments again.

1.  As for the corn maze.  You may require him to be escorted with a parent or trusted adult the unit Key 3 approve.  He can participate, but only under that condition.  You may make his adult supervision/condition part of the observation/probation time.

2. Not to play anything legal into this, but a 6 month suspension from scouts could generate a question on whether he forfeits his 6 months of registration fee or BSA, council, units benefit from his full registration fee, without scout being "active".  Since the suspension would be a council/unit decision and not the family's, they may question it whether the scout is at fault or not, tried or not.  The suspending authority has to be ready to answer this.  If the family introduces the suspension, it is a self-imposed decision, not the council/unit.

Depends whether the Scout(s) lose tools often.  If they can keep tools and not lose one every campout, Target has the Gerber Gear Suspension Multi-tool for about $29.    That would get them from Scout to Eagle without a problem.  

If they lose a knife or tool every campout, stick with the cheap Ozark Trail multi-tool for under $8.  If you need this tool as a starter for Scouts, it won't break the bank.

When I teach whittlin chip to Bears, I like to buy Dollar Tree swiss army knives for them to take home.  Victorinox are the next step.  I also have to help Cub parents to not buy knives over $20 as the 3 things Scouts do with knives: 1. Sharpen them.  2.  Cut themselves.  3.  Lose the first knife.

This topic is going to get a lot of mixed comments.  As a starting point, how about a meeting with the boy, parents, and key 3.  Don't need an entire committee to do this.  First see what the scout and parents have to say about it and how scouting is affected.  They may see it as a time to step back and address the family issue.  There is no mention of law enforcement or conviction.  Without those, there is a lot of wiggle room within scouting.  I've had a few troublesome Scouts and started addressing the issue that way.

I like to remind adults and scouts...There are Scouts that need Scouting, and there are Scouts Scouting needs.  

This was a hot topic within our lodge as we are AIA heavy with native Americans in the lodge, dance teams, and drum competitions.  We have our lodge and same folks at Pow wows within 4 states.  We hold 6 NOAC national champions in Northern Drum Competition (2004, 2006, 2009, 2015, 2018, and 2022).  We also hold the NOAC 2022 Fancy Shall Competition dancer (female).  When we put on an AIA event for the lodge, section, or cub-heavy events, everyone is impressed and not one negative word about it.  BSA is losing support by droves with this one.  Not sure the attendance in Colorado will be the same with this AIA loss of participation.  Next thing you know we will have "order of social media" as wearing the sash with red arrow and word "arrow" will be offensive as a weapon instead of a woodland multi-tool.  It is time we preserve the traditions of the Order of the Arrow and stand strong on not changing what made it great for over a century.

I'm leaning on the "no" side too.  The requirement shows to do two of the six eligible items.  I've had scouts try to use a motorized bicycle to meet #3.  I frowned on it.  Had one try to use Grandmother's adult tricycle without reason (owned a bicycle) just to push the limits.    I think the intent of the requirement is to create different experiences in method, exposure to differences in the options, and be outdoors.  I had a scout with cerebral palsy complete the hiking MB, with the last hike of 20 miles.  Not a complaint or issue, only smiles for accomplishing one of the hardest things he ever did.

Is there a publication or source for the slide showing AIA competitions not being held?  I have a few interested drummers and dancers.

You are getting a lot of good advice on this topic.  Hopefully I can add to it.  A subtle way for the adults to see the importance may be for their Scouts to set the example.  Focus on them first.  Adult Scouters used to have BSA ties, suits, as well as the field uniform, don't see them much anymore.  Some adults may pay the bill for their Scout (we know sticker shock on uniforms) and just use an activity shirt.  

1.  Do you participate with other units on outings or council collective events?  Do they see other Scouts in uniform, assist as staff on Cub Day Camp, NYLT, etc?  At some staffed summer camps, uniform is required at breakfast and dinner.  Expose them to other uniformed Scouts and it may help.

2.  Is price one reason for not being in uniform?  Uniform exchange or donations may be an option.  Most of the "seasoned" scouters on this forum probably have a stash of old uniforms that shrunk as they got older.  

3.  As mentioned about uniform inspection, start the Scouts doing this weekly with monthly acknowledgement/prize.  As a pre-opening, how about "Pin the patch on the Uniform" game.  I wonder how a court of honor is handled, whether a MB sash is worn over a T-shirt?  If there are OA members, how do they handle uniforms at lodge meetings/events?  

Lastly,

4.  Has the PLC put in place any uniform guidance?  What do they say about neckerchiefs, bolos, or nothing?  During fund raising or recruiting, how about stressing uniforms be worn.  A pack I know does monthly pancake breakfasts at the chartered organization and cubs at least wear the field shirt/neckerchief.  This lets customers know and see it is a Scout event rather than another church group.  

You (the SM) can easily appoint Scout A as a JASM provided he is 16yrs old.  Not for just camp, but for his regular position.  Scout A is not new to scouting or camp so supporting the camp SPL should be easy.  

A great time (one week) to see how the ASPL can do in the SPL position.  If he won't or cannot, may be a good time for some reflection and SM conference.

I'm leaning on the ASPL taking over duties for the SPL.  Scout A could probably do a fine job.  NYLT is not a requirement to lead, hopefully the troop had a recent ILST for their Scout leaders at a minimum.  Scout A has an Eagle BOR scheduled.  If Scout A is going to camp...what are they doing? 

Scout B will get more out of the temporary position and shows reinforcing the chain of command.  Scout B, if not used, may just back off duties as ASPL if not used.  Camps will mainly only work with the SM and SPL mainly for communication/duties etc.  Scout B will get more out of the experience.  If there are additional areas that need attention, how about Scout A support by being troop ASPL at camp?  

I may see this from a different side.  I'm in favor of the CO having acknowledgment for anything their chartered unit does.  If the CO offers a place to meet, charter, camper-ships, equipment, fund-raising, and other support...an advertisement is a small concession and thank you.  If the CO is mentioned on activity (class B) clothing/scarves so be it.  I've had many CO symbols and wording on neckerchiefs that generated some great conversations.  

Here is my hardcore stance:  If any one person objects to the CO mentioned on clothing, that one person is never wrong to be in full BSA uniform (field uniform).  CO are not an obstacle or hindrance, but rather a full supporter that should be involved more than just an annual recharter signature.

Don't overlook your commissioners help with this.  Commissioners have access to training records that say what course(s) each person is missing.  Recently I reviewed a district's training with only 44% position-specific trained.  That means 56% of unit/MB leaders are going with only their experience with programs, and most of them are Pack Leaders.

When all else fails, a council nasty-gram to the chartered organization rep may help to energize those leaders.  Although some may be repetitive and boring, the on-line training is easy.  Hard to tell Scouts there are requirements when the adults don't follow their requirements.  

Sorry for my earlier post as I was typing with fingers of fire.  I couldn't have left off a more important "not" in my sentence of "A SM conference is NOT always an "end of requirements", one-time thing".  I apologize for the error, but for those that read my entire post may have caught my error.  

Ok, this SM is way out there on his duties.  A SM conference is always an "end of requirements", one-time thing.  A SM conference can be held anytime, can be casual talk around the campfire, during a meal, or a formal uniformed sit down.  I did SM conferences if a scout slowed down, attendance dropped, saw a change in the scout.  They can also be for positive aspects such as being elected to the OA or troop leader position.  

This SM is missing so much by trying to test the scouts.  Nothing worse than putting the stress of the "test" to a scout.  How about watching the scout and when they do something correct, it gets acknowledged.   This could be as simple as using a taut-line hitch on a tent rope at an outing.  I always get a laugh when students would ask "is this testable".  My response usually was "everything is testable, just the time is different".

The yells can be used whenever a troop assembles.  I've seen it routinely as mentioned above and to hold roll call.   At opening campfires, flagraising gatherings, anytime you need the scouts to settle down and get their attention.  

At Woodbadge after flag call, pawe always asked if there were any... and they responded with their patrol critter's yell.

At $43 a hat, you better keep the strap under the chin and not leave it laying around.  As if the $24 cub and scout hats aren't crazy enough.

How about we reuse neckerchiefs like this: