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Posts posted by dlearyous

  1. I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.
    I come up with ratio from experience. Troops that don't turn away parents end up with that many Scouts to parents ratio. It is ridiculous. Adults are there to supervise the Scouts not to have parent/son time, that is what BSA Family Camping is for and home life. Any kid that has a schedule like you described needs to learn to say no and schedule in some down time.
  2. Three or four years ago I found a printable card online when I was a MB Counselor for Family Life. My husband tried to throw a fit because they weren't blue and 'official'. I looked it up and there was no requirement to be blue, to use the BSA cards, or I even believe to use a merit badge application card. Not sure if it's changed since then. And of course my computer has crashed since then so I don't believe I have it any more but will post it if I find it.

  3. I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.
    Number one, if a parent wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid they should do it on their own time. I don't know when it happened, but why is the boy adult ratio almost 2 or 3 to1 at campouts these days? Also, if parents are attending shouldn't they be trained on unauthorized situations to keep them out of trouble (one hour of Youth Protection)?
  4. Thanks for the replies. I recently had a parent who was willing to help drive a group of boys to summer camp (> 5hrs away). When I started asking about her insurance limits, etc... She said well maybe I won't. I understand that the BSA is trying to Cover their butt or covers yours but as complicated as everything else is in life all this training/paperwork just turns people off, myself included.

    Other than providing info on her vehicle what training and paperwork is she required to do? I'd be worried if a parent that was driving my child did not want to share that info!
  5. Sasha has it right. Review your prospective candidates and pinpoint who is the best fit. Go directly to them and let them know why you want them specifically (flattery gets you everywhere). Let them know that they will have a mentor and receive training and ensure it happens. Also, don't forget to think outside of the box when looking at your pool of potential volunteers. Extended family members, former boy scouts, young adults, church members, etc. They don't have to have a boy currently involved in Scouting in order to be considered.

  6. The problem with inadequate staffing, especially in areas that required specialized skills, was a very real problem, and one that must have been obvious a long time before the Jamboree, probably a year out.


    The BSA did really continue to hype things like zip line when it was eminently clear that that very few scouts were going to experience it. Frankly the idea that they were going to find 800 plus volunteers (the number necessary to open all the zips) who would be able to spend two weeks training and then two more weeks at the Jamboree was beyond wishful thinking. The better choice would have been to hire that many college students for a month to provide the necessary staffing levels. The BSA does have a habit of getting one idea in its head and not being able to adjust to reality.

    I don't know about that. From the beginning when we signed up the information said "BIG ZIP ELECTIVE (THE ZIP): Experience a ride on one of five parallel lines each 3200 feet long over Adventure Valley and the Kayak Lake. NOTE: Due to the limited capacity of this venue a finite number of elective tickets will be distributed to each jamboree unit to be divided amongst the members of that unit as they so choose".
  7. The day of service has been known from the outset. I sat on our Jambo committee and attended the previous two as an ASM. I too questioned whether it is a good thing or not. Considering that there was some push back from locals concerned about a chunk of land in their rural area being turned into an encampment with 40,000 people, providing service to that community goes a long way them wanting this in their backyard. Plus, given the scout oath and law, doing service anywhere you are at just fits. I know it costs a pretty penny. I spent close to $10K for my son and I both to go to Jambo in 2005 and 2010. You certainly want to get as much bang for your buck as possible. That is why when I was ASM, we would run them out of sitting around camp all day or setting up right outside of camp and patch trading. Their parents had spent $3k for them to go. They could sit on their butts for free when they got back home. I also have to take into consideration that those who chose to staff Jamboree, have to pay the Jambo fee, provide their own transportation and use their vacation time. They are paying to go do a job with long, hot hours without many creature comforts. I'm torn. On one hand, people paid to play and doing service isn't playing. On the other, service is what Boy Scouts do. As to using the OA to do it, the OA's service function is primarily to their camps where a scouts service is to the community.
    I think it was wonderful that Scouts were able to give back to the community. My problem however is the automatic issuance of the Messenger of Peace award. I am not that familiar with it, but after a quick review creating a flower bed for a Community College does not seem to fit the bill. Am I alone?
  8. On a different note' date=' I was told that some activities were restricted to Venturers. If this turns out to be true, someone will need to answer the question, why were all the activities not available to Boy Scouts at the Boy Scout National Jamboree?[/quote']


    This (and the .pdf it leads to) should kinda explain the general mentality: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Age-AppropriateGuidelines.aspx


    Some of this comes off as "dirty pool" to try to get boy scouts and their leaders interested in venturing. (Why a 12-year-old-scout can't take handgun training defeats me. I fondly remember my Webelos DL taking us out to learn to shoot his .38 special.)


    Some of it is the social aspect. Yes, some venturers want to come to Jambo -- their membership card is printed on the same stock as a boy from a troop-- but they are best served by having a percentage of activities to themselves. On camporees, I've had to herd older "distracted-by-venturers" boy scouts back to their troops because I definitely feel for their SM. As an ASM and crew advisor, I want boys in my troop to get to know my venturers in case they want to be part of the program, but I also want them to fulfill their responsibilities with the troop. I suspect we are going to be stuck with this mode of operation for as long as the majority of BSA remains male-only.

    I thought the same thing Basementdweller! I looked through most of the photos and the postings on social media and I agree, the Venturers seemed to be overly represented compared to Boys Scouts.
  9. The new 2011 Guide to Advancement states that non-committee members may be used if enough committee members are not available.



    "In units with fewer than three registered committee members available to serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents (not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered or not) who understand Boy Scoutings aims."(This message has been edited by dlearyous)

  10. T2Eagle,


    The Scoutmaster Handbook goes over the planning process and role of the scoutmaster, SPL, and others in detail. The scoutmaster does have a large role in presenting all ideas, options, and council/district activities to the scouts. But at that point they are just that, ideas and options. The scoutmaster should stick to any priorities they've laid out though (ie 10 days camping a year and an outdoor activity a month). If there is a specific event the scoutmaster feels the troop should support they should explain why and let the scouts decide. The scouts help choose activities, locations, dates, etc along with themes for each month to fill in the calendar.


    Here are the 5 steps to annual troop program planning:

    1. The scoutmaster writes down priorities they see for the troop.

    2. Get patrol input on the general plan and options.

    3. Hold the Troop Planning Conference.

    4. Consult with troop committee and chartered organization.

    5. Announce the final plan to patrols, parents, committee members, etc.



  11. Why does it state that a Scout shall not be responsible for requesting that a board take place. The Training and Guidebooks do not mention anything about how to coordinate a Board of Review that I can find. It shouldn't be considered adding to or taking away from the requirements by creating a policy on how one is requested.


  12. Boy led, I get it. But obviously BSA seems to think that the boys need a break every once in awhile and some support. Otherwise they'd be in charge of submitting tour permits, creating a budget, purchasing all the equipment, registering new Scouts, etc. While they have a hand in some of these tasks, it is not their responsibility.


    No one's bothered to address the fact that it states otherwise in BSA materials (other than to be told it's rubbish). Almost all other answers in this forum point to the handbooks and training. Why is this one different?

  13. Thank you for you comments. I think several misunderstood my dilemma though.


    I didn't say I wanted myself or the adults to take it all over and ban the kids to the corner. I would like to see an adult plan it with the Scouts and have the Scouts participate [actively] in the ceremony. An adult would handle the presentation of awards and rank with the assistance of the SPL. The Scouts would conduct the opening ceremony, lead us in prayer, make their announcements and hold the closing ceremony.


    Also, I didn't say this was my first COH and it was horrendous or that we are new parents. I've been a Scouter for 5 years in Cub Scouts and 2 years in Boy Scouts. I've attended numerous trainings, continued to learn through other avenues and consistently held an adult position supporting our units. My husband was an ASM for a year and then SM for a year which is when he met resistance from the rest of the Committee and CC when he suggested we allow adults plan the ceremony in accordance with BSA guidelines.


    It's interesting to see what what a big difference "serve", "arrange", "chair", and "plan" mean in a Court of Honor vs the rest of the Boy Scout program.

  14. moosetracker,


    Okay, sure you and I and others on occasion start a post to someone else in the thread with their name. Go check the rest of the threads and you won't see that happening on a regular basis.


    Other forums will allow you to respond to each post, not the entire thread. It shows up indented and all responses fall along that invisible indentation.

  15. moosetracker - yes i know you can edit you post right afterward, but I said you can't edit it later. Not everyone reads every post to a thread and respond after reading only the initial post. If I can't edit it because I made a mistake or want to clarify something, I can't, and they probably won't see it later in the thread unless they read everything. Then I'm getting useless responses because they didn't understand and the thread is abandoned, except for all those arguing for arguments sake off on another tangent.


    Okay, yes, I can copy and paste someone else's post into mine...I was talking about the more advanced forums that do that automatically for you.


    There still isn't a way to tell what post a person is responding to during a discussion.


  16. I think a lot could be done better here with how 'we' reply. Too many people read into a question instead of asking for clarification from the OP. They assume they are dealing with...a newbie who has no training, someone who thumbs their nose to BSA policy, a helicopter parent, etc or whatever they want to think about the poor poster who innocently asked a question they wanted assistance on.


    It would help also if the forums were set up better. There is no way to tell who someone is replying to or to quote comments you are replying to not to mention a way to edit your post later if need be to clarify something.

  17. As ScoutNut said, the COH is a formal time to recognize and celebrate the accomplishments of the Scouts. I probably shouldn't have commented on how the ceremonies are conducted, that wasn't my point other than the Scouts deserve a proper recognition by the adults for their accomplishments. Outside of Scouing we don't ask others to plan and conduct their own award ceremony, wouldn't it make sense that others assist in planning and conducting the COH for the benefit of all Scouts?


    The rest of these two differnet Troops have all their activities planned and conducted by the Scouts. Plenty of opportunity for them to plan, lead, and conduct their program.

  18. I am confused as to how courts of honor are to be conducted. After reading the guidebooks and attending several poorly planned boy led COH we (my husband and I) have broached this subject with two different troops and have been met with resistance. I believe, and I thought the guidebooks backed us up, that they should be planned by the adults with the participation of the Scouts. Even reading some of the posts on here it seems people don't do it that way either. Thoughts?



    Committee Responsibility: Serve on courts of honor


    Advancement Coordinator Duty: Arrange courts of honor


    "Courts of honor may be chaired by the head of the troop committee or the troop committee member responsible for advancement. The planning of the program also should be handled by these individuals, along with other members of their committees."




    Eagle Scouts hit the mark with projects



    This article states that the Eagle projects were for the Rheinblick shooting range and for the Army. Are those allowed? The workbook states it should be a religious institution, school, or your community. It goes on to state that it could not be performed for businesses.


    Yet district, council and national approved it. I don't get it?

  20. Are you still pulling my leg? COR? We've been sending them info and inviting them to our events but they aren't much more than signatories on documents. Trying to work on the relationship, but it's not going anywhere yet.


    Roundtable and CORs are constantly discussed on this forum as not living up to what they are supposed to be. Keep that in mind when providing them as a resource. I think most of us know how it is SUPPOSED to work but need alternatives. (Don't mention Unit Commissioner to me either, haven't had one in years probably.)


    I would love to volunteer in another position, but I'm currently filling two with the Troop and two outside of Boy Scouts and work full time. I can't stand volunteers who don't live up to the expectations of the job, so I refuse to spread myself thin like I see others do.

  21. Haha good one...oh wait your serious.


    I've attend a few Roundtables here and many at our old location over the years. RARELY have they been anything more than a read from the flyer type of event.


    I should have specified, how do you find these official online resources that are available monthly or yearly. I could spend all day on scouting.org and never find the same thing twice. Figured there had to be an easier way or someplace I could bookmark. (and doing a web search on scouting.org is pointless)


    Thanks for your help. Guess I'll go do some more searching.


    P.S. I have taken training, why wouldn't I have?


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