David CO
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Posts posted by David CO
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19 minutes ago, yknot said:
That's a pretty slick PR website and package.
One of the three founders listed on the site is a media PR guy.
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42 minutes ago, MattR said:
Nobody is perfectly good or perfectly bad.
The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones.
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57 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
Why Scouting Matters is an independent grassroots organization
It says the founder of Why Scouting Matters is a council president. Doesn't sound much like an independent grassroots organization to me.
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46 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
The troop I grew up in had 3 COs while I was there
I suspect these CO's were not always providing the proper oversight of the unit. That's the big problem. All of the other stuff you mentioned should be secondary to unit oversight issues. I know it sounds harsh, but I would rather see a unit closed than to have it continue without the proper CO oversight. Oversight should be priority #1.
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16 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
That said, if I were this unit I would be doing the same actions they are currently planning.
I understand the temptation to go CO shopping. People put a lot of time and money into the unit and don't want to see it disappear. Nevertheless, I still think CO shopping should be prohibited.
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11 hours ago, fred8033 said:
My view is the current situation is rather unfair to BSA.
Not at all. BSA allowed CO shopping. BSA intentionally undermined the CO/unit relationship and weakened the oversight that might have prevented some of the abuse. BSA should be held accountable.
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7 hours ago, mashmaster said:
If the current CO no longer is willing or able to charter Scout units, what do you expect them to do?
If the CO is no longer willing or able to charter the scout unit, the unit should be disbanded. The unit should cease to exist. The unit number should be retired and remain unused unless/until the CO re-charters a unit. This sends a crystal clear message that a unit is part of its Chartered Organization. A unit is not a separate entity.
The parents are free to go "shopping" for a Chartered Organization who is willing to form a new unit for their kids. New CO. New unit. New number.
The problem arises when parents want to retain the number, flag, history, and identity of a unit. They want to make a statement that the unit is its own entity. It can continue outside of its CO. This leads to all sorts of problems.
The council is to blame for this. The council undermines the CO/unit relationship by allowing a new CO to use the old CO's unit number. The council is completely in control of the assignment of unit numbers, and could quickly put an end to the practice of CO shopping. The council should have a strict policy of assigning a new unit number to every new CO.
BSA could do this too. But its not going to.
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24 minutes ago, Dixit said:
So "shopping" in this context is finding the right fit for our unit with a new CO.
I got that. I still disagree.
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22 minutes ago, fred8033 said:
Why would they not share liability?
They do. They paid for the insurance policies. Now its up to the execs and lawyers at BSA to make sure the insurance companies pay the claims.
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3 hours ago, Dixit said:
If your unit was shopping for a new chartered org, what would be your factors to consider?
The first thing to consider is if the act of Chartered Organization shopping is contributing to the problems in scouting. It reinforces the mistaken idea that a scout unit is a separate entity from the CO. Do your scouts want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?
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Personally, I would favor returning the District of Columbia to Maryland. This should be a bipartisan decision, with a constitutional amendment supported by both political parties. The District of Columbia is an anachronism from an earlier era, which no longer serves any good purpose. We should fix it without politicizing the issue.
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13 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
First, the plan for DC statehood would still leave a District of Columbia.
Under the current house legislation, that's true. I don't think the house plan has a chance of passing the senate.
13 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:Second, even if the entirely of the District of Columbia was eliminated, the successor state would be the place of incorporation.
Possibly, but the federal charter would cease to exist. It would be a state corporation, subject to the laws of that state. A state corporation can be liquidated in bankruptcy court.
13 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:the only way to get the kind of complete and total elimination of the entire BSA National Executive Board and every BSA executive employee you want it for Congress to rescind the charter.
By eliminating the District of Columbia, congress would be rescinding the charter. The charter specifies the District of Columbia. Eliminate DC, and the charter disappears.
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8 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:
A Chapter 11 bankruptcy is filed by one corporation. If that corporation wishes to add its independent affiliates for whatever mutual benefit to that bankruptcy, that corporation must find the means to do so. Within the BSA Charter and By-laws, the means is to revoke the charter of independent affiliates (local councils).
We were asked to give advice to the judge. What should the judge do? Are you saying the judge should revoke the council charters?
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35 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
1) The judge cannot order that.
2) Under the terms of the BSA charter as approved by Congress, BSA leadership selects its own successors. There is no "election". You don't get to vote on who is on the executive board or for any position.
Interesting. It says BSA was incorporated in the District of Colombia. If DC becomes a state, does BSA cease to be a corporation? It would almost be worth giving DC statehood if it would wipe out the national council. Almost.
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7 minutes ago, gpurlee said:
Lol - not sure firing everyone is within the Judge's domain.
In that case, bring me back some chocolates from Sorenburg.
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35 minutes ago, gpurlee said:
What would you advise me to do?
Fire everyone at national. Executives and volunteers.
Order an election to replace national officers.
Give the new national council a little time to come up with a better plan.
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4 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:
If it is on the form, I very much would be liable.
Not even then. It's not like Chuck E Cheese or day care. We don't match up students with parents before they leave. We just dismiss them. Some kids walk home. Some ride their bikes. Some take the bus. Some get rides from their parents.
You might be liable if you just happened to notice who the kid left with, and didn't say anything, but you are under no obligation to monitor who drops kids off and who picks them up. No junior high or high school does that.
BSA would be crazy to voluntarily take on that obligation and liability. It would be like inviting a whole new wave of lawsuits. Stupidest thing I've heard of since the ineligibility files.
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1 hour ago, vol_scouter said:
I want to relieve pain and suffering, cure when that it possible - that is maximize the benefit to my patient.
There is a big difference between law and medicine. It would be unethical for a doctor to help his patient by harming someone else. Do no harm.
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1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:
They represent their clients AND themselves.
True.
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7 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
To be clear, I think they were referring to the lawyers. I think for the most part, everyone here is horrified by any abuse and has sympathy for the victims. The struggle and debate is over how much legal and financial responsibility BSA and other entities should have.
Lawyers represent their clients. You can't attack the one without attacking the other.
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49 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:
And thus it is in life; about those things of which we know nothing, we seem to care but little; we never feel the lack of that with which we have never been filled, and thus we never know the magnitude to which our souls might have been expanded, nor the heights to which our joys might have reached.
Very true. I am color blind. Probably missed out on a lot things that other people enjoy.
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24 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:
I have been privileged to see two magnificent Rockwell exhibits in my life.
I saw the Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn Rockwell collection at the Mark Twain museum in Hannibal MO with my scouts. If you go there, make sure to pick a sunny day. The museum includes several small buildings, and I got soaked going from one to another. The boys did the cave, outside of town, but I had to pass. It requires a lot of bending and ducking. My old body can't handle it anymore. We all found the riverboat excursion very relaxing after a hard day's sightseeing.
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5 hours ago, yknot said:
Thanks. I think if there is any idea here that abused kids were somehow to blame for their abuse and the adults and responsible organization weren't, there's not much that can be rationally discussed.
I totally agree. But we should point out that this immunity from blame only applies to child sexual abuse. It doesn't apply to anything else.
If an adult purchased a case of beer for a patrol of scouts, and the scouts had a drinking party, and they were caught, the scouts could be blamed. They could be charged with underage drinking. They could be kicked out of scouting.
If an adult drug dealer sold a patrol of scouts some illegal drugs, and the scouts were caught with them, the scouts could be blamed. They could be charged with possession. They could be kicked out of scouting.
If a modern day Fagin teaches a patrol of scouts to steal, and they get caught shoplifting, the scouts could be blamed. They could be charged with theft. They could be kicked out of scouting.
I wouldn't want any kids to get the misimpression that there is some sort of blanket immunity that applies to them if they get caught doing something, just because an adult was involved. This immunity from blame only applies to child sexual abuse.
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9 hours ago, ThenNow said:
Years later and I was nearly adult by then.
3 hours ago, ThenNow said:when I just joined and 10
?????????
Why Scouting Matters website
in Open Discussion - Program
Posted
My prediction is they won't be able to resist the temptation to turn their site into a self-congratulatory NESA brag fest with 10, 000 eagle scout stories.