afscout

Yes, I was not truthful and it is me that I'm talking about. So bring on all the bad talk about what a rotten scouter I am and how I am no longer qualified to be part of scouting. I deserve it for lying. I thought about just coming about and saying it was for me at the start, but I knew I would get all the *&^( about how I had my chance and blew it. I was looking for advise but also knew that there are a lot of posters out there that love to flame others.

Actually, I was fine with not making Eagle until my son started CS. For all this time, Eagle wasn't a big thing for me as I've done other things that I'm proud of. In fact, I didn't argue with BSA at the time since I was off to the university that was my "long shot" and was in hog heaven. Years later, my son joins CS and I become a den leader. As I went through training, meetings, etc. people were asking why I didn't make Eagle and others were making a really big deal abut Eagle. You almost feel like a second class citizen if you don't have your Eagle. At that point, for the first time in my life I started to regret not getting it so I thought I should ask about it.

I think I do a good job as a leader for the boys, but scouting has also been something that has opened this raw wound that has though a round about course led me to lie to this forum. I guess it's like being a really good bartender that everyone loves, but who is also a recovering alcoholic.

Well, I've done my damage to myself and think it's best that this be my last post to this forum.

For those who are here to help others who trying to be better scouters, keep the up the good work. I learned a lot from you and your advise. Your experience is a true blessing.

For those who are on the negative or have the "holier than thou" bent. People who ask questions are looking for answers to help their program or to be a better scouter. You're negative opinion of them doesn't help. Try to help, not hurt. Tearing down people, especially when they are new to scouting and still trying to figure if this is right for them is the best way to convince them that it isn't.

For my final parting shot: On the wearing of knots issue, I have kept quiet because of the flamers, but here's my 2 cents. People are motivated by different things and while some (especially some of the most vocal of this forum) are internally motivated to do it all for the boys and seek no recognition, others need a little bling to get them on the path until they can reach that internal motivation. For the record, I don't care if there are those who only do things for knots and look like 3rd world generals, if they're doing the job and keeping units open, I can live with it.

Nuff said and out.

In my pack, we have an adult leader that completed all of his requirements for Eagle, except for the application. He said that he barely finished his last required merit badge by his 18th birthday, but when he went to turn in his application, he was told that the application needed to also be turned in prior to his 18th birthday. This was back in the mid-80s and he said unlike today,there was not a stated requirement to turn in the application by the 18th birthday. Talking to his wife, she said that he has his merit badge on display and it has all of the required merit badges, she has seen his Eagle project (it's still existing today), and he has his old scout book. I'm not sure if any of his teachers, ministers, etc. are still alive for his recommendation letters, but he's pretty successful today so I'm sure he would have gotten the recommendations back then.

He's one of our most active leaders and a few of are thinking it would be great to get his Eagle (talk about a story for BL or Scouter magazine). Does anyone remember the requirements back then? From looking at my old scout hand book it has the merit badge and project requirements but does not state anything about having the application in or the COH by the 18th birthday. Also, how would I even start looking into getting this done?

We split our Tiger den of 14 into 2 Wolf dens. The Tiger DL decided that he was burnt out and didn't want to continue. Two new DLs stepped up and picked boys much like picking teams. They asked the parents if there were certain boys that wanted to stay together (my son and his best friend for example). It turned out well and both dens did well. The boys are pretty adaptable so splitting the den wasn't a big thing for them.

Well, my trip to England got cut due to lack of travel funds. Instead I decided to order the bead sets via online ordering. That was a month ago and I have not received them yet or even a status of the order despite multiple emails and even calling the Scout Shop in England twice. I had to call my credit card company and file a charge dispute against the Info Center at Gilwell Park for not fulling my order. It has been a pretty disappointing experience since the bead sets were for a beading ceremony.

We tried the donation closet at our pack, it didn't work. We acutally landed up donating a whole bunch of uniform stuff to another pack out of state that was in need. We live in a middle-class area where most of the parents can afford to buy new uniforms and such, but at the same time, they (including me) gripe about the cost and wish the price could come down.

One of my biggest pet-peeves is the neckerchef slides. They don't stay in place and most of the boys lose theirs if they're running around (like boys do). At $5.00 a pop, it gets pricy really quick. When my son was a Tiger, he lost two before I made him tie his necker below the slide no matter what he's doing. It looks dorky, but at least he stopped losing them. As a DL, I made one of our first den projects to make a slide out of beads and paracord. It's cheap and it won't come off when the boys play. Now if I could also figure out how to make den hats and neckers...

My son just crossed over to Bear and it once again brings up the point of why we have a hat, necker, and slide (and belt buckles for Tigers) for each level? It makes scouting more expensive to participate in. Remember when CS wore one hat/slide/necker for the whole time except for Webs (basically the wolf uniform except for a dark blue hat with yellow stripeing)? I would even go as far as saying having different color neckers is ok since it make it easy to see your den in a sea of CS at pack meeting or if people wanted another piece of "bling" to give to the boys at crossover (and even those are pretty flimsy reasons). But I can't think of one good reason for having different slides and hats. If you simplify your product line, you gain efficiencies and hopefully reduce cost by producing in greater bulk numbers. With the economy in a downturn, BSA could score some points by doing things to help parents out in the wallet.

OK, I'm done venting and feel better. Now I'm going to admire my son's new Bear stuff because before I know it he'll be a Web and have to buy a different hat/slide/necker.(This message has been edited by AFscout)

I'll be moving out of state this summer and sending my wolves to our brother den after crossover. As such, I wanted to give the boys in my den a small gift. Any ideas?

Anyone know of a good gear box I can keep all my camping stuff in (tent, stove, lantern, cooking gear, etc.)? I want to be able to just load the gear box into the van and go (especially if we have bug out in an emergency such as flooding, earthquakes, etc.) I'm looking for something large, wheeled if possible, and tough. Doesn't need to be waterproof, but at least be able to handle some rain without having it leak inside.

I've thought of making a gear box out of wood (ala Patrol Box), but would really prefer something made out of heavy duty plastic.

What do you use?

scoutfreakdad,

For an adult it takes about 10 feet of paracord. I make them to give to my Denners as a gift for doing a good job. Since the kids (wolves) have smaller wrists, I only use 7-8 feet. The first one took me an hour to make. Once you get the hang of it, it'll only takes about 10 minutes for each one.

Once I gave the first one, every boy wanted to be the next Denner.

All,

Thanks for all the info. I'm still waiting to see if my trip will go through or not. I thought about buying on line, but the shipping cost (21 pounds sterling) for a set of beads (6 pounds) is deterring me from going that route. I may try to give the scout shop on Buckingham Palace Road a call. Hopefully they have the beads also since I'm not sure if I'll have the time to go out to Gilwell Park and back.

I may get to go to London for business. If I do I was hoping to get a set of WB beads at Gilwell Park. The question is that do they sell them there or do I have to go to a scout store in London. From what I could tell, for a google search, there aren't very many scout stores and they tend to do everything online. Has anyone been there?

My favorite technique for monday morning quarterbacks is to ask them what they would do and then if it sounds reasonable ask them to step up and take over the project/activity/leadership role the next go around. Usually, I get the "what did I just do" look and a quick 180 to get out of there (none of them ever came back to me to gripe) or in a few cases, I get new volunteers.

If you have access to a military BX/PX, they sell them over there cheaper than on the outside.

Some of the parents do believe "he who has the most toys win" and go all out to get every single belt loop/pin.

At our pack, the policy is that the pack will only pay for belt loops/pins earned at pack activities, which mostly comes out to those earned at CS Day Camp.

As a DL, I do a lot of activities which the boys earn belt loops, but I clearly let the parents know that the pack will not pay for the belt loops and it's the parent's responsibility to purchase the belt loops for their sons (I usually will work with the parents and buy all the belt loops and have them pay me back). I've never had a problem with the parents if we lay down the policy at the beginning.

Eagle,

Nope. TC partners are not considered registered adult leaders unless they fill out an application and pay the fee (not sure why they would do it). The TC Den Leader is a registered adult leader.

I'm a DL and also in the military. I was notified that I have to move this summer. I love being a DL and have put in a lot of time and effort into the den. I haven't received orders yet so I'm not sure exactly where we going yet and not sure if my new job will allow me the time to be a DL. If it does, I would love to continue being a DL at my son's new pack. Anyone have any tips on transfering into a new pack?

Don't limit yourself to just internal frame packs. Internals are great if you're mountain climbing, etc. where keeping your pack close to you is key, but externals are making a comeback because they do a better job of load management. I also think they do a better job of disbursing heat build up from your back. Go to an outfitter and ask about both types compared to what activities you are planning to do.

Congratulations. I too love being a DL. I'm in the NCAC also and can highly recommend the training they offer. I've been to BALOO, University of Scouting, and BALOO this year and got a lot out of it. I only wished they offered it earlier in the year so I could have started the school year with all the great ideas I learned at training.

I've used a Coleman 4-man tent that I bought at BJ's last year ($35 with a coupon) a few time with great results. Here's a few key tips

- As noted previously, seam seal your tent. The time and $3 investment is worth it during a rain storm

- I bought a 4-person tent even though it's usually just me and my son. The extra space is great for gear and stretching out. Besides I like to be able to stand up in my tent. That's something you can't do in most 2-person tents.

- If it looks like rain, pull everything into the middle so nothing touches the sides of the tent. Its that contact that allows moisture in

- I keep a car chamois just to mop up any water that does come into the tent

- I took a blue tarp and cut it so it was slightly smaller than my tent floor to create a footprint. Put the footprint down first then set up the tent on it. The foot print helps protect the tent floor wear and tear and keeps it cleaner. I've seen people just lay down a tarp as a footprint, but if it sticks out from under the tent, the rain will be captured by the parts sticking out and pool it under the tent.

I'm sure there are better tents out there, but again I'm going to be doing mostly cub scout and car camping a few times a year. I could have spent more, but you can never tell how well your family will like camping. If we hardly go, it's only $35. If we love it and go every weekend, then I can go out and spend more on a tent. I can still use this one as a back up/spare or gear tent.

I'm with Pchadbo, My son was in the pack last year as a Tiger and I was just his adult partner (not a registered leader). He earned award and wears it. This year I became his den leader, but I don't wear it (even though they sell it at the Scout Store. My sister den leader wears it even though we started at the same time). My thoughts is that if I wasn't a registered leader during the period of performance, I would be stealing their effort by wearing the patch. For me, I've worked pretty hard this year as a den leader so I will proudly wear this year's patch because I know we earned it.

Here's the full speech that Sec. Gates gave. Sent by Julie Arrighetti (Webelos Den leader, Pack 1943). It's a good read.

----------------------------

Circle Ten Council Friends of Scouting

As Prepared for Delivery by Robert M. Gates, Dallas, Texas, Thursday, March 03, 2011

Good evening! Thank you President Bush, for that kind introduction. On a personal note, I would like to thank you again for granting me the opportunity to serve as Secretary of Defense. It is true that I have been known to grouse from time to time about coming back to Washington, D.C. Yet working everyday with our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines has been the greatest honor of my life. I always appreciated your steadfast confidence and support.

It is an honor to be here tonight. I thank you all for your hard work and continuing support of the Circle 10 Council, and for this opportunity to share a few of my thoughts about scouting, an organization that has so much personal meaning to me.

Scouting has been a big part of my life and my family's life. Of course my family's life and our kid's lives have been a bit unusual, in no small part because I have had armed body guards for so much of my professional career.

These circumstances affected my son's scouting experience. Such as the time when I was CIA Director and his troop went on a father and son wilderness camping trip near Chesapeake Bay in January. My son and I went. But I think the edge was taken off the wilderness adventure for everyone because 100 yards from our encampment were three large black vans, a satellite dish, and a number of armed security guards surrounding the campsite. Not to mention that one if the activities that weekend was for the scouts to learn how to shoot skeet. Just what my security detail wanted the Director of the CIA in the midst of a bunch of 12-14 year olds using shotguns for the first time.

I speak to you tonight, as a leader from one generation, talking to those who are helping develop the leaders of the next generation. Young leaders on whom much will depend.

Fifty-three years ago, when I received my Eagle, I was like many young scouts. I was a 15 year old kid attending high school. I wasn't a straight "A" student, nor was I a particularly good athlete. Although I was involved in school activities, I wasn't really a student leader. This was all true in college as well. And, when I went to Washington DC to begin working for the CIA at age 22, I could fit everything I owned into the back seat of my car. I had no connections and I didn't know a soul.

The only thing I had done in my life to that point that led me to think that I could make a difference, that I could be a leader, was to earn my Eagle Scout Badge. It was the only thing I had done that distinguished me from so many other high school kids. It was the first thing I had done that told me I might be different because I had worked harder, was more determined, more goal-oriented, more persistent than most others. Earning my Eagle gave me the self confidence to believe, for the first time in my life, that I could achieve whatever I set my mind to.

I suspect that for many scouts, earning their scout ranks, up to and including the Eagle, this is likely the first thing they will have done on their own that marks them as someone special, someone with unique qualities of mind and heart. Like so many scouts before them, some will become captains of industry, important businessmen; others will be builders and engineers; some may cure diseases; some may design revolutionary software; be an astronaut; some may become generals or admirals. Some may even head CIA or be the secretary of defense or president of a great university or a President of the United States. But, for most, their scouting experience is the first major step toward the most important goal of all: becoming a good man, a man of integrity and decency, a man of moral courage, a man unafraid of hard work, a man of strong character the kind of person who built this country and made it into the greatest democracy and the greatest economic powerhouse in the history of the world. A scout is marked for life as an example of what a boy and man can be and should be. They are role models.

The fate of our nation in the years to come and, I believe, the future of the world itself, depends on the kind of people we modern Americans will prove to be. And, above all, the kind of citizens our young people will be.

I believe that today, as for the past 100 years, there is no finer program for preparing boys for citizenship and leadership than the Boy Scouts of America. I have served eight presidents. I have traveled the world and had many extraordinary experiences. I have met many remarkable people. But, at this point in my life, I can tell you that my scouting experiences, scoutmasters, camping trips, Philmont adventures, the 1957 national jamboree at Valley Forge, and many more all had an equally huge influence in shaping my life.

Today, more than 50 years after I was a scout, I can remember the names and faces of all my scoutmasters, and many of the other adult volunteers.

I remember 60 year old Oscar Lamb taking ten of us teenagers to Philmont and hiking every blistered step with us. I remember Forrest Beckett teaching us kids in Kansas how to cook in winter on a fire of dried cow chips, imparting a distinctive flavor to already nearly inedible food. They and a handful of other volunteers along with my father my role models as a boy taught me about the scout oath and law, about teamwork, about real courage, and about leadership.

Much has changed in the 50 years since I was a scout, not all of it for the better, especially for kids. One thing, however, that has remained the same over the years is the positive influence of scouting on boys and young men, and the ability of so many of them to surprise and inspire us with their determination, their character, their skills, and their moral and physical courage.

Good homes and good parents produce strong boys, but scouting tempers the steel. For a successful scouting program is built on action, on hard work along with food, fun and, above all, on challenge. And, I suggest to you, there are too few institutions in America today that have uncompromising high standards and that are built upon demanding challenges.

We live in an America today where the young are increasingly physically unfit and society as a whole languishes in ignoble moral ease. An America where in public and private life we see daily what the famous news columnist Walter Lippman once called "the disaster of the character of men...the catastrophe of the soul."

But not in scouting. At a time when many American young people are turning into couch potatoes, and too often much worse, scouting continues to challenge boys and young men, preparing them for leadership.

First, scouting prepares young men for leadership by helping them learn to meet challenges. Scouting continues still to thrust boys and young men into the wilderness to prove themselves, to learn confidence and self-reliance, to learn about themselves, about nature, and about powers greater than themselves to learn about the power of the soul. It gives them a spirit of adventure and prepares them for life's challenges.

Second, scouting prepares boys and young men for leadership by teaching them the importance of service to others. The scouting movement shows dramatically that service public service still beckons the best among us to do battle with complacency, neglect, ignorance, and the emptiness of the spirit that are the common enemies of social peace and justice. Adults who support scouting are generously investing in our collective future in Walter Lippman's words, you are "planting trees we may never get to sit under." Those of every age in this place tonight along with the other adults and the more than 100 million boys and young men who have been involved in scouting over the past 100 years prove that Americans are still prepared to devote themselves to their communities and to their fellow citizens. And this caring beyond self is fundamental to scouting; it is fundamental to democracy; it is fundamental to civilization itself.

Third, and finally, scouting prepares boys and young men to live lives based on unchanging values values such as trustworthiness, loyalty, honesty, kindness, and the respect and dignity due each and every person. We in scouting believe that personal virtues self-reliance, self-control, honor, integrity, and morality are absolute and timeless.

There are in too many places too few people with scouting values, people who say, "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty" and mean it. From Wall Street to Washington to our home towns, in all our lives there are people who seek after riches or the many kinds of power without regard to what is right or true or decent. And yet millions of scouts, their parents, community leaders, boys and scout leaders demonstrate daily that scouting offers an alternative: that a life based on principles, on personal integrity and honor on scouting values can be exciting, adventurous, fulfilling, and uplifting for an individual, for a community and for a nation.

I am here tonight because I believe in the extraordinary power of scouting to be a force for good in a community and in the lives of its boys and young men. I am here because I believe that every boy that joins the scouts is a boy on the right track. I share with you a vision of a community of involved, committed adults who provide a chance for every boy to have friends his own age with whom he can camp and learn and laugh, led by caring adults who set an example not just of skills, but of character, of the joy of service and the joy of life. Adults who are leaders and who teach boys to be leaders

Many scouts are members of the Order of the Arrow. At the end of the Order's initiation ceremony, Uncas, the son of the chief of the Delawares, says to his father, "If we would remain a nation, we must stand by one another. Let us both urge on our kindred firm devotion to our brethren and our cause. Ourselves forgetting, let us catch the higher vision. Let us find the greater beauty in the life of cheerful service."

In challenging boys to learn skills, to master challenges, to strive to live up to high principles and moral values, to find the greater beauty in a life of cheerful service, to build strong character, scouting tempers them into strong leaders for tomorrow.

The legacy of scouting is a new generation of worthy leaders for America in the 21st century. These millions of young men and boys will be strong leaders thanks to scouting. Strong leaders of character, of faith, of skill; courageous defenders of the weak and the helpless, believers in the brotherhood of man. And with such leaders, America will continue to be the beacon of hope and decency and justice for the rest of the world.

Thank you. God bless you and God bless America.

At one of our University of Scouting classes, one of the students shared that he as the CM presented all the pack and den leaders with the black BSA nametag. $5 per nametag, but he thought it was a good way to recognize them in front of the pack, thank them for their service, and have way for all the parents to know the leader's names. I thought that was pretty cool.

I know exactly how you're feeling. I'm about to lose a wolf. Great kid coming from a single parent (mom) home. Could really use scouting to come out of his shell. Sister's in Girl Scouts and I think the mom is active in that troop, but not our den. He has only shown up for our pack's Halloween party, a trip to Mt. Vernon and a service project. He has never come to a den meeting and I get "sorry, I got home late, or I was really tired, etc." The den parents have offered to pick up the son and bring him to den meeting or other activites, but no. Being a first year DL, it's tough and I do feel that I failed him. The only that I can do is continue to provide a quality program for the others.

Good to see some good comments about scouting coming from our Gov't leaders

Dallas Morning News

March 4, 2011

Defense Chief Gates Praises Boy Scouts As Valuable In A Chaotic World

By Mark Norris, Staff writer

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said Boy Scouts of America was a force for good in today's chaotic world during a speech at the Friends of Scouting banquet Thursday night in Dallas.

"There is no finer program preparing boys for leadership," Gates said.

Gates was introduced by former President George W. Bush, his former boss.

"I love Scouting," Bush said during his brief introductory remarks. "I think it's one of the great mentor programs in the country."

Gates mixed levity with the serious during his speech in front of a packed ballroom at the Hilton Anatole hotel.

He recalled the time he accompanied his son on a father/son campout while he was director of the CIA.

"The edge was taken off the wilderness experience when 100 yards away from camp were three black vans with security equipment," he said to laughs from the crowd.

He also described how earning his Eagle Scout badge at age 15 was the only thing that he felt distinguished him during his early years.

It's that feeling of accomplishment and sense of worth that Gates said he likes about Scouting.

"A boy who joins Scouting is on the right track," he said.

Gates said with more young Americans increasingly out of shape and turning into couch potatoes, Scouting serves an added benefit of getting kids outdoors.

But ultimately, he said, the Boy Scouts is about self-improvement.

"The Scouting experience is the first major step... toward becoming a good man," Gates said.

Wow, we got two threads on name tags. I posted on that one, so I might as well post on this one. I just made a cloth nametag. I didn't have and couldn't find a spent uni shirt so I took mine to JoAnn's Fabric and found some material that matched the color. That was 85 cents. I then took the shirt and material to a place in the mall that does custom embroidery on hats to get my name done in red letters. That was $10 (Ouch) but I couldn't find a cheaper place. I folded and ironed the outside edges back to form a name tag sized rectangle and sewed it on the shirt. It looks sharp, but a bit of a warning, it looks a little like an interpreter strip. What saves me is that the way I folded it, it's taller hightwise and short widthwise than the interpreter strip and the fact that I have my first and last name on it which can't be confused with a foreign language. My other option was to do a black cloth with white letters. I also just saw another scouter that did the tan w/red letters, but the tan was darker than the uni shirt, so it didn't look close to an interpreter strip. Even at $11, I though it was worth it because, it's great that people actually address me by name, I don't have to remember to put on/take off a nametag, and it doesn't snag on anything.