clemlaw

OK, that's consistent with my theory that the core "outdoor" merit badges are still a worthwhile challenge.

The thing that keeps me from worrying about it too much is the fact that most of the Eagle-required merit badges seem to be in the "difficult" category.

And there's also a large group of non-required "outdoor" merit badges that, in my day, everyone earned just because they participated in the program, went to camp, and learned the skills. Those were things like cooking (which I think might have been required), canoeing, rowing, wilderness survival, etc. Not every scout earned every last one, but almost everyone earned most of them. When it came time to sign off the requirements, they were easy, but that was only because our leaders were very sneaky and just let us learn the skills by having fun. In reality, everyone got pretty good at all of those skills before they got around to thinking about getting the MB.

I hope I'm wrong, but the ones that appear to be missing are the ones where the Scout had to call up a stranger across town who truly was an expert in some arcane subject matter, and set up an appointment to work on that "difficult" merit badge.

Well, yes, I'm not sure if those particular critters belonged on my "impossible" list. In fact, I think both the rabbits and the pigeons held out longer, even after the rest of the 4H/FFA merit badges were eliminated.

But I'm pretty sure that the city would have said something about the hogs and cattle.

Besides, my parents just weren't doting enough, and I bet they would have said no, even though they were otherwise enthusiastic supporters of Scouting.

The first time I read that a Scout had earned all available merit badges, I was just blown away, because when I was a scout, this would have been an impossibility. It might have been done once or twice, but it could only have been done by a Scout with extremely doting parents who happened to be farmers. And in my experience, very few farmers are extremely doting parents.

It looks like most of the "agricultural" merit badges were discontinued in 1975, so I guess that's the first date when it became realistically possible for a scout to earn all the merit badges. (I turned 18 in 1979, so I guess theoretically I could have done it, but I guess nobody bothered to tell me that they had been discontinued.) Those merit badges included:

Corn Farming

Cotton Farming

Dairying

Forage Crops

Fruit and Nut Growing

Hog Production

Pigeon Raising

Poultry Keeping

Rabbit Raising

Sheep Farming

Small Grains

We called them the 4H/FFA Merit Badges, because they were marked "4H/FFA" in the requirements book. This was because they could be earned by earning the comparable 4H or FFA award.

There were probably others that would meet this criteria, but all of these were essentially impossible for a city kid, because they required actually raising the species in question. IIRC, you couldn't earn the badge by taking a field trip to look at a hog. You needed to have a hog in your back yard, and you needed to raise it yourself. As far as I know, where I lived it wasn't legal to raise hogs in the back yard, so that one was out for me.

And even a farm kid wouldn't be able to get all of these, because it was unlikely that his farm raised corn and cotton and cattle and hogs and poultry, etc., etc. Again, I suppose if he had doting parents who ran a dairy farm, they could buy him a sheep and a rabbit and a hog, etc. But most farmers don't do things like that just to satisfy their kids' whims.

Now, back in the day, we had our share of "easy" merit badges. I proudly earned Coin Collecting, but I suspect any scout who had spent a couple of afternoons at it could have done the same thing. And I'm sure a Scout could have figured out 10 other "easy" ones to complete all of his non-required MB's. I never got around to earning Basket Weaving, but I'm told that it wasn't exactly rocket science.

But we also had quite a few difficult merit badges. These weren't impossible, like Poultry Keeping. But they were sufficiently difficult that it's very unlikely that many Scouts would earn them unless they really had a particular interest in the subject.

In my case, for example, Radio Merit Badge was one of the difficult non-required merit badges I earned. It wasn't difficult for me, because it was a personal interest. In fact, I never thought to myself that I was working on the merit badge. Instead, I was earning my license, and the merit badge had only a few additional requirements. I'm not aware of anyone who ever earned Radio Merit Badge without also earning their amateur license, and again, the actual merit badge was more of an afterthought to the process.

This is because one of the Merit Badge requirements was the ability to send an receive Morse Code at 5 words per minute, which is the same as what was required for the license. This wasn't particularly difficult for someone with an interest in radio. But it was difficult enough that nobody would bother unless they had that interest. There would be little sense in doing it just to earn a merit badge--they would be much better served by getting Basket Weaving or Coin Collecting.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but the requirements for Radio Merit Badge today are considerably simpler, to the point that it is now probably one of the "easy" merit badges, along with Coin Collecting and Basket Weaving. That's not an entirely bad thing--there's still enough meat there that some Scouts will probably get interested because of the Merit Badge. But for me, there was a certain pride in having that "difficult" one on my sash.

I know there are still some on the required list that are in the "difficult" category. And again, there have always been enough "easy" ones out there so that Eagle, even in my day, could have been earned painlessly if the scout wanted to.

But it seems to me that something has been lost by the removal of the "difficult" and the "impossible" merit badges. I don't want to downplay the accomplishment of a scout who gets all the available merit badges, because it's still an extremely impressive accomplishment. But IMHO, it just seems wrong. I think it still ought to be impossible, like it was in my day, so that there's always something to strive for.

The impossible ones are apparently all gone now. But on the non-required list, are there any "difficult" ones left?

As a city kid, if I really had my heart set on it, I probably could have figured out a way to earn Hog Production. So there was always something to strive for. Frankly, it would have been kind of a letdown to earn all of the merit badges, because there would be nothing left to do. There always ought to be something left, or so it seems to me.

Oh, yes, I understand. I just mean that they'll be old pros by the time they're Bears.

Don't worry--I haven't started signing off their First Class requirements either, or got them started on their Eagle projects.

That's good to know that it's part of the Bear requirements. I thumbed through the Tiger electives, and couldn't find one to squeeze it in under. So it's good to know that it will be useful for advancement.

Yes, it was a one-hour class at University of Scouting. They had a rope making machine also, but we all made a piece using the "baton".

I have fond memories of making rope as a Boy Scout, using a rope making machine that showed up about once a year or so. I recently went to a training and learned that the machine isn't really necessary. They taught us the method shown here:

http://usscouts.org/scoutcraft/BoyScoutRopemaking.pdf

I tweaked this a little bit for our Tigers and a good time was had by all. I explained to the parents that they never again have to buy from the Big Rope Companies.

Here are the tweaks I made to work better with Cub Scouts:

1. I didn't want to make a bunch of what this site calls "rope spinners" (or what our instructor called a "baton"). And I didn't want a bunch of hyperactive Cub Scouts running around swinging batons. So I just used sticks on each end (I actually used pencils). The Tigers just held them tight and turned from both ends. Surprisingly, I don't think we had a single case of someone letting go of the stick and leaving a tangled mess of string.

It worked best to spin it by using one hand to make an "O" around the string, and then using one finger of the other hand to spin the pencil.

2. Rather than "whip" the rope, we just put a piece of masking tape tightly around the end. It actually looks more professional than a "whipped" end (although it probably won't last as long).

3. Rather than use bailing twine, I just used the cheapest string I could find. It worked very well, and left a lot cleaner looking finished product than bailing twine.

They were all able to make a piece of rope in about five minutes, so most groups were able to make more than one.

The Cub Scouts all wound up with a (short) piece of rope to take home, and it's simple enough that they can repeat it at home with mom or dad.

Rope making is good for hours of fun for all ages.

>>>No other camp need be considered.

>>>>but without the physical abuse that was sometimes prevalent in the glory days.

>>>>>Okay, I found it online. You'd think anything concerning firearms( simulated or otherwise) would be in the section pertaining to firearms and shooting.

>>>>>The G2SS doesn't say anything about pretend anything!

Common sense people!

That reminds me of a question I had.

I've been gone from Scouting and OA for about 30 years. From reading some posts here, I gather that these days, the results of the election are simply "announced" at the end of the election.

Back in the day, the results were not announced, but the election took place a couple of hours before the tap-out ceremony, and the candidates did not know that they had been selected until they were tapped out.

I've forgotten a lot about OA, but the most vivid memories I have are of those ceremonies--the ones before I was eligible, the one where I was eligible but was not tapped out, and the one where I was tapped out. In most cases, there was a special "OA ring" where the ceremony was held, and it was a very special and memorable night, mostly because of the anticipation. I can still remember what it felt like to be tapped out. I forget right now whether I'm allowed to tell what the meaning of those taps is, so I won't. But I remember what they meant. And if my name had just been "announced", I doubt if I would remember that meaning.

It seems to me that a great deal has been lost if candidates are simply "announced" after the election. Is there any reason why this has changed, or is it just a local option that was done particularly well in my troop and lodge?

At the Cub Scout level, most State Parks seem to have some sort of "Junior Ranger" program, which is usually a workbook with various activities to do around the park. There is usually plenty of other free literature that they're happy to give away. They usually have some kind of museum or interpretive center, and more often than not, it's empty.

In Minnesota and Wisconsin, you need a vehicle sticker to get into the park. But frankly, I can't imagine living here without having that sticker!

Now I remember why I like tents better than cabins.

I don't have the G2SS in front of me right now, but IIRC, the use of pretend guns is perfectly acceptable, as long as you're not pointing them at human targets. So a pretend shooting range is A-OK.

Actually, I do have a correction to my prior post. A firing squad wouldn't be using pistols, so they wouldn't be pointing their fingers.

Instead, they would be holding a piece of air, in the shape of a rifle. But whether it's made out of paint, laser, finger, or air, it's still a pretend gun!

Yes, the G2SS says that you can't point pretend guns at human targets, and this would include things like paintball guns, lasers, etc.

In this case, the pretend gun is a finger, so I guess, strictly speaking, it comes under the same category.

Common sense would say that you would ignore the rule in this case. Unfortunately, some people are too spooked to use common sense.

Just for the record, my Scoutmaster as a youth had, IIRC, two knots. And he was the best scoutmaster in the history of the BSA!

>>>>it wouldn't seem to be a big deal to build permanent shower and toilet facilities if the utilities are in

I have to admit, I've been away from scouting for quite a while, and I didn't really know what all the fuss was about.

Then, I recently saw a scouter who looked generally disheveled. But he had 20+ knots, extending all the way up to his shoulder.

So yes, at some point, someone should have gently taken him aside and pointed out that it looked ridiculous. From this thread, I'm guessing that perhaps someone already had, but the battle lines had already been drawn.

So my advice would be to wear your first six or nine (or perhaps even 12 if you have an extra large shirt) with pride. But when you get the next one, maybe it's time to take a couple of those Cub Scout knots off your Venturing shirt.

You can always put them in a nice picture frame and proudly display them on your wall at home, as I do with my youth awards. Occasionally, it's nice to show off to someone that I earned Coin Collecting Merit Badge as a Tenderfoot, but that doesn't mean that I would want to wear it in public.

>>>>Fall Fellowship was just as if I had been gone only a few months. New faces, but same spirit.

>>>>170 million to prepare site for Jambo 2013

>>>>I'd tell them to turn to the page that states Badges of Rank Are For Youth Members. I'd suggest if he earned Eagle, to get the Eagle knot and wear it.

>>>>Yah, so for da "you earn it, you wear it" crowd, what do yeh feel about an 18 year old ASM wearin' an Eagle rank badge

Well, it's been 30 years since I've been there, and it's more than your five hour drive, but I have many fond memories of Many Point Scout Camp:

http://www.manypoint.org/

I'm pretty sure they put together provisional troops. Now that I have a Tiger Cub in the family, it looks like I'm eligible to take the family to the family camp, so we'll probably be checking it out next summer.

Oh, those things were always against the rules, weren't they? I bet whenever you got caught, you got a stern talking to by the Scoutmaster. And if things really got out of hand, he might even try to catch someone.

By the way, I know that "hazing" is against the rules, as it should be. But I hope that doesn't mean new scouts aren't given the opportunity to meet people in other troops by going to look for a smoke sifter.

I met a lot of nice people that way, including the kindly scoutmaster who gave me a cookie, asked me if this was my first campout, and told me that maybe the other guys in my troop were pulling my leg.(This message has been edited by clemlaw)