adamsdwa

Volunteer - I have so walked in your shoes.... in fact it sounds like you are in my district! Honestly, I think the concerns you share are very real to you and your fellow scouters.

May I offer this - I would suspect you are fairly new to scouting as I had these simialr feelings when I was new to how it all worked also. EXACTLY the same concerns and feelings.

I learned to deal with it by expecting nothing and then whatever I got was a pleasant surprise. As it turned out this made our DE more beneficial to me as we each had realistic expectations and he didn't feel as though I was expecting too much which kind of pushed him away.

Good luck to you - but I think you are seeing by now that we've all got different expectations - but all of our results are the same - it's really up to us. Have a great day!

The DE is there for the exact reason stated above. Kudos to those of you who understand this - it is difficult for us volunteers to grasp at times. In our district the result of low attendance is a direct result of poor promotion by the volunteers (yes me included), lack of volunteers, and a weak previous district committee. Our new chair is doing a great job of accountability on everyone's part! DE included.

I would also suspect there are some rogue units and volunteers in your district hurting the overall program. Sometimes, we as leaders have to remind everyone our focus on on the boys - not ourselves. Plus, we are trying to get our district to follow the philosophy that we don't care what unit the boy joins - so long as he is involved with scouting.

We are making headway and it is beginning to payoff - mind sets are changing and folks are beginning to put the program first and units later. Take care of the boys first and the rest will come. Including the money councils seek!

Notice this is all about the program - who owns the program THE VOLUNTEERS - not the DE.

Do enough to get by is different than playing ball and doing scouts. By enforcing your attendance rules you are forcing teh scout and his parents to choose one over the other - when in fact they can do both and if you limit thier abilities to earn awards because they were not there - I can almost gaurantee they will make a choice - and not scouts.

6 months active - so if from June to Aug they attend 3 of your planned 6 mtgs and none of the meetings in Sept to Nov - they attended 6 meetings where likely the activity was just fun - vs 12 that were fun and educational.

Or none from Sept to Nov and all from Dec to Feb and crossover - where's the big deal.

Scouting may be your priority as it is mine - but we still manage to fit in athletics, karate, and church. We make this choice as a family.

Who made it our place as leaders to make them choose. ust let them expereince all life has to offer at this age - that is all they want to experience. There is plenty of time later for them to worry about thier own priorities. At this point its sometimes all we can do to expect them to sit still for 30 mins.

It's Cub Scouts highest award - we do not get to pick and choose who gets it based on attendance. Pretty simple in the BSA guidelines. They earn it they get it

So a scout attends sports and is choosing sports over Scouting? I'm sorry I don't get this one....

Scouting is about giving our youth the ability to experience different things while at the same time forming leadership skills and good morals. Obtaining a sense of community and involvement in our community extends beyond the reach of our Pack. In fact if, we stayed just within the bounds of our pack we would not accomplish any of the scouting ideas - would we?

Scouts who as you say "choose" to play sports are making friends, enjoying social interaction, developing coordination and athletic abilities while staying fit - isn't this the subject of the recent article in Scouting?

Bottom line - I believe you are drawing a line and actual excluding our youth. What message is this sending to our youth? If your program is like most, recruiting is the easy part - retention is achieved only through a quality program that has buy in from parents and boys. I find it hard to believe that buy in can be obtained from not allowing a boy get to get his AOL becaus ehe did not 50/60% of the meetings.

Active? If the young man has met all the requirements and did his best - then I am forced to believe at some point he has been active.

Our motto is do your best - pretty simple concept. It does not say do your best 50% or 60% of the time. besides - could it not be argued that the boy is active - after all - he can earn a flag football, baseball, swimming, or soccer belt loop while participating in these activities. So - yeah I think he's active.

There's too many splitting hairs and rules police sometime - do what's right for the boy and you can never go wrong. Since you are all on here - you either have or had son's in scouting. How would your son feel if he didn't get the AOL and what message does that send to others about our programs?

Eamonn - you describe the definition of insanity - continue to do the same thign and expect different results - right? You are spot on also ad I agree wiht everything you have said thus part of my rub.

Council President lives locally and I go to church with him and used to be affiliated with him in another unit. He knows but I suspect he has relied on the District Key 3 to handle it and I think he will.

Just learned today that the DE may have convinced the new District Chair that this is all a result of the council not supporting us liek other districts - which is totally wrong. Our council, while not perfect, does make everything available to each district in a fair and equitable manner.

I'm interested to see how this goes over when the District Chiar mentions this - may help solve some issues. Ultimately, the DE has to stop over promising and under delivering.

John - "they" already tried that...in an attempt to hurt us both.

Fortunately, the "powers that be" were aware and stood behind us both. It was a great learning experience that strenghtened my belief in the BSA, my christian faith, and my relationship with the young man. Hence, why I am so passionate about wanting to help him now.

John - short answer - 1 of the few people the guy trust because others have stabbed him in the back numerous times. Long answer - cubmaster, unit commissioner, roundtable commissioner.

Our key 3 has a new dist chair whom I think will do well and have come to jesus meetings once he is able to get his head wrapped around things. Old District Chair had positive attributes but come to jesus meetings were not one of them.

Dist Commissioner is in another county and also limited by job. But does a great job and I think si just wating to let the new committee get up to speed.

AS said, most of the dist comm has at some point worked behind his back and thrown him under the bus to council unnecisarily, so he is very careful with whom he trust and rightfully so. I'm one of them and happen to remember being a young man who makes mistakes and have tried to use my school of hard knocks to ease his pain.

He's also recently married and I believe he's having trouble managing the new marriage and his job. His wide supports him and is a great young lady - but he sometimes puts her before work in my opinion. Of course, family comes first, but we have to manage the load unless it's an emergency or other situation (common sense approach here).

Shortridge - spot on in my opinion.

I appreciate everyone's replies thus far. Each of you make great points and I agree with pretty muech everything offered. If you will allow - let me add a few things now and see if this takes a different route.

Again - this is a pretty good DE - are there better I'm sure - are there worse absolutely. He has shown much growht in 2 years and let's most things roll off his back. Thus, the reason I respect him. He really isn't that bad just aggravating at times.

He are specifics.

1st date cahnge was the District Pinewood derby which remained the same weekend but on friday night instead of Saturday. This was mostly a committee decision due to a NASCAR event in our town. A lot of locals work the races as unemployment is a real issue. Still, he promised to get a special patch made for the event designed by the boys. A patch won, based on committe's vote, and we never got the patches. He went on to promise one of the designed patches to the scout who won. This has never happened - since March - tough to explain this to a cub....

2nd was Gold Rush - our Spring Cub Overnighter camp for teh district. There was conflict with the original chair thus he found a new one who changed dates within 4 weeks of the event. I didn't have a real problem with this as it was a result of a conflict. Somethings happen right?

3rd Day Camp was cancelled because of registrations - only 4 boys. I accepted the Director position 4 weeks before the event because he literally could not find anyone else. It was promoted poorly by Council and the DE - thus the registration issues. The District DE, District Chair, and Activities chair approved of me having an event fo rthese 4 boys for the week to offer them something. We did - except he failed to show up on wednesday with the Council's climbing wall - as promised on 2 prior occassions. When asked by someone else he said "I figured he didn't want it". later found out that the Director of Field Service told him we shouldn't do this camp and just cancel the whole thing. Had I known this before I would have honored the Director's request as he is really a stand up guy. I feel bad but I only found out 2 weeks ago that he said not to do it. So, truth be told they probably wouldn't let him get it - but I don't know this for sure.

Lastly, the DE decided to change recruitment training night from Aug 20th to Aug 11th. the 2 largest packs have events planned. He said he needed to do this to get in schools quick before they get hit with everything else. Thsi date has been scheduled for a year almost. He said he didn't know 1 county went back on Aug 12th - but his District Membership Chair is the Curriculum Director for that school district. Plus, the District Cubs Activities Chair gave him calendars for every school district in the winter when they sate down to plan the year ahead.

There is aso one other change he made which is huge - he changed date and time of the popcorn kickoff with council and sent everything to be published. he even listed a place. Problem, here is my wife is teh district popcorn chair and knew nothing of it. So, she and I had to run around and secure the place as it is teh NASCAR track and I am the one who has a relationship with the President of the speedway. Lastly, we had planned a trip that weekend that we now can not go on.

Not to mention hardships in prmoting all these events and others with such last minute changes.

All - please remember that this is only one side of the story and I have tried to be objective because I do like this guy and want to help him. He will listen to me usually and I plan on talking to him - but just have to get my ground work done. My wife has a meeting with him tomorrow about popcorn and has been texting, calling, emailing all day to confirm and has had no response.

In his fairness - this is a screwed up district. Some people have WIFM disease, complain about every little thing, and hold grudges for 10-15 years. they are never happy with any DE and some even work privately to undermine him. Sounds great doesn't it? That's why my heart goes out to this guy and I try to help him - but he sure is making it hard for me. Him to I'm sure because I relies on my support and friendship as an outlet.

So how do you feel now? Similar approach, ideas? Even what can we do to stop the in fighting in the district. I was at PTC earlier this summer and some were amazed to hear of some of our local adults antics. Let me have it....

and thanks!

I know from time to time we all have challenges with our DE's. Ours is a decent guy who means well and whom I respect and have befriended. He usually works hard but as most young people makes bad decisions from time to time. I try to support him publically and help him recognize these things privately. He's not bad.

However, since about April he has taken it upon himself to start changing dates of events and activities that have been planned prior. Our council sends out a yearly planning calendar and "we" (cubmasters in our area) use this to plan our year and promote events in council, district, and in the unit. The last 3 major events in our District have been changed and created conflicts. he says the program belongs to the volunteers and claims he is hands off - yet date changes are being made 2 weeks prior to an event, being made without the event chairs knowing it, etc. Further, he has not shown up and delivered items he promised to bring (i.e. climbing wall for a day camp). This has become increasingly frustratrating for me and others.

Do you folks in other areas experience the same things? I want to be fair to this guy, keep him as a friend, and continue to grow in our relationship. I'm just feeling some real challenges to this right now and can't seem to get him to understand. He will likely read this and that is fine - as I approach this from a heart felt concern - not blowing of steam or placing blame. I can accept changes but change is becoming routine and it's affecting our programs.

So, is this common in other areas? Please help guide me to remain scout like and patient.

Several points here - also please know that I would like to make you think rather than tell you how to handle. That is the most appealing aspect of this forum to me.

Last post hit one nail right on with training. Are you trained? Is the CM/ACM trained? Is the committee trained? I say no or this problem likely would not exist.

Secondly, I am a CM and have been in a similar albeit different situation in the past. Here are where my thoughts took me.

1. The Bible says in Romans that we are to submit to those in authority and that they serve in that position because God allows them to hold that position. AS a man of faith this one was instrumental to me. (Please no theological discussions - these are my beliefs and I respect yours if they are different)

2. The CM/ACM at some point likely did something to "earn" those positions - and if your Pack account has $7000 dollars someone in a leadership position is doing an OK job, aren't they - most packs in our area would love to have those kind of resources. Also, they hold a leadership position and regardless of your scout experience they have dealings wiht council and district folks that you have not. I to was active as a child but this leadership thing is altogether different.

3. Are you in it to do it your way or for the boys? Most times when we feel we are right and "they" are wrong we are doing what "I" feel is right. I've been there and learned some things the hard way. As a DL you are to focus on the Den of boys you lead and the CM does the program. Perhaps, before sending the email you should have consulted the CM first. He/She may have been offended and thought you were overreaching.

4. What message does it send to the boys if you up and leave? If you don't like it boys we can go somewhere else were they will do what we want and we can have our way? That's likely the message they would get at thier age as they do not possess many of the powers of reason as we do at our age. Also, what values and ethics will they learn by seeing you as a leader follow the leader - after all isn't that what you are asking them do weekly?

5. The CM/ACM has already told you per your post that you "young guns" can do whatever you liek as they are gone in a year. Is that really that long? You or one of your peers may be CM then and if the committee agrees yoou can make changes as you see fit.

6. I applaud you for wanting to pay fees to help district registrations - but I doubt one pack would make a big difference. IN my experience if parents are going they will sign up and the Pack paying isn't really going to encourage that many. Also, poor district registrations is indicative of a larger problem and the District Commissioner staff should be working on those issues.

Again, I want to make you think and encourage you to just focus on the boys - if we as adults did more of that I think we would all have larger Packs, happier parents, more leaders, better event participation, and likely larger financial resources.

Good luck and keep us up to date!

I've seen a few similar cases like this as has most of us. First, you must realize that there are 2 sides to every story - I'm sure you present what you feel is the truth as does the other lady.

I would really like to hear the other side as well. We are all to quick to say things like "cussing" and other less desireable attributes to impune the other party.

What's the real deal here and how did it get to this point. There are likely many wrongs on both sides for anything to ever get to this point.

You are wasting your time trying to be all things to all people. You WILL NOT make everyone happy.

So, how do you handle all the individual requests? Be honest even if it's not what they want to hear, work hard and be available, return all phone calls and emails - even if you don't know the answer say you will find it and be sure to get back promptly.

Some people will just complain - ;isten and file it away - make notes that reassures them you are listening and take thier complaint seriously - but decide if it's valid later. Again - some people will just complain - they are also likley doing the least.

Be yourself have fun and FIRST AND FOREMOST - always put the boys first and seldom will you go wrong.

Just left National Scout Shop - it's confirmed - everything mot just shirts and pants is going up - for example WEBELOS neckerchef going from 6.49 to 9.99, everything going up effective tomorrow per our local manager.

Your son will not miss jambo because he didn't fund raise this time - he will miss it because he is simply not old enough.

As for fundraising I think Beavah makes a good point and it is each family's personal decision on how and when to participate. The Scoutmaster likely made all of the troop's requirements known prior to asking you about Spring mulch. Christmas trees - yeah I think you're right probably was too early to have it a requirement but it was your choice to allow your son to participate.

Spring mulch - sounds like if he crosses over in a week it's not necessarily a requirement ut what I would term an obligation if your son is now a member of that troop. It's just part of scouting.

Complaining - maybe you should have someone else read your post that is objective - because I too took as a complaint. Sometimes it's hard for us to realize and objective judge ourselves. Also, same thing applies to forums as email - there is no tone involved so to be fair to you it is also hard to judge one's true intent.

Thanks for your support of scouting - my family is also very involved in our Pack, district, and council at all levels - in fact we have had only 4 weekends this entire year thus far where we have not been at scout functions. That to is our choice becaus eof what our son gets in return. However, when our son crosses over the troop will be entirely different as you will aslo see. Cubs are for families and led by parents. Troops are for the boys and led by boys. I'm sure the troop will certainly need and accept your help - all units need help.

Like I've told my wife and mother's of our boy's as W2's we will start decreasing as much parental involvement to start the transition from WEBELOS to Scout with boys and the mothers. Keep this new parental role in mind as you make this transition. Of course support andf love your Scout as always but remember your new role will be in the background and it's time for him to gain from new experiences and new leaders.

I'm sure this will all work out for you as long as everyone keeps a scout-like approach. Bottom line - if you're concerned talk to the SM and express your concerns face to face and maybe each of you will walk away with a better understanding and foster a great new relationship to benfit all the boys.

Not sure if it's true but our council has a national scout shop, and heard from local professional last night that unifomr prices are going up real soon.

DE said that he was told yesterday and it looks like pants and shirts are going up $10.00 each. That's a pretty big jump....

retention

does the boy led troop have a program good enough to keep the Scouts you've got - if so - you'll get more

been there done that! I learned a few things along the way and this is not how I handled it - but in hindsight - it is the way I wished I had handled it - so see this as just my .02 worth...

We had a CC who was basically the Treasurer, CM, CC, and everything in between. It was her way or the highway. Period.

I would suggest the following as a current CM and UC. Again - IMHO

1. Speak to the CC discetely and relay your concerns in a Scout-like manner;

2. Set guidelines for seeing a change that you both can agree upon. Do not keep score and preserve each other's respect;

3. If this is not fruitful, contact your COR;

4. If this is not fruitful, get the IH involved;

5. Notify your UC at anypoint you are comfortable and try to have a meeting with UC, COR, CC, SM, and IH.

Kind of like a "mob" thing" - keep it in the family.

Remember always be respectful, courteous, and use this to build relationships and understanding. But always keep one thing first and you can never go wrong.

What's that one thing - the boys!

Good luck - I'm sure you will get plenty of great advice from some very experienced Scouters on this board.

CNY - please know that I am not familiar with your particular situation and I am only making a broad generalization here....

Why do you not want your CC or CM to know? This just doesn't make sense to me.

It seems to me the first step would be to discuss with the Den leader;

second step after ample time to address (determined by you) would be to talk to CM and/or CC;

third step after ample time would be COR or Unit Commissioner;

fourth Step would be to look around at packs.

There is nothing to hide here as you have presented it. I just don't get the way parents do these things. As a CM and Unit Commissioner most issues like this can be avoided by open honest and respectful communication. I know there are some people who will say well so and so and such and such says this and that. Who cares!

A Scout is honest, respectful, and trustworthy. Be open, be honest, and be courteous. IF a parent wants to leave our pack I will gladly recommend and give contact info and have no hard feelings. Sometimes the grass is greenner and sometimes it's not.

Good luck to you as you work through this - but do what is right for your son. And - what message does just walking away send him?

"What should I expect?"

FUN, FUN, FUN....

Go with an open mind ready to let the boys be boys and enjoy it. If they don't make the birdhouse just right, or miss the target, so be it. Let them enjoy the experience and allow them some freedoms to "enjoy" new things.

If it's a worthwhile summer camp you will have things to do pretty much all day into the evening campfire. You should have some time after the fire to sit back and relax before going to bed. Last year we left with 1/2 our Bear requirements done.

Not much chance for leaders to step back as Cub Scouting is a family program and you will need to be your son's partner in most things. But, maybe you're like me and Dad could use a chance to step back into the child's world every once and a while. Some parent's did swap of duties in our group - but remember you're opportunity to sit back and relax is someone's else's opportunity to share a new experience with your child.

I hope you enjoy - we sure did!

When thinking of software I'm assuming you are using a timer? How do these excel sheets import or receive the timing info from your timer. Has he written some type of macro?

I'm not aware of any freebies that are available. And, I have searched the world over. So if you find - please inform me.

I've used Grand Prix and DerbyMaster with a FasTrack timer. Both worked equally well although Grand Prix has more bang for the buck. I think I would focus more on finding $50 as the money is well spent and spent only once.

Well - we live in VA and we've decided to drive! Yep - drive! 26 hrs and 1700 miles one way. We both like to see different things and visit different places. We did the same thing out west a couple years ago and had a blast.

So, we'll be leaving early and getting home late but taking our time and stopping along the way.

I keep thinking of that movie with "Al Bundy" in it driving his step kid home for christmas. Can't recall the name but hopefully our trip will be better than his!

I've signed up for Strictly Cubmaster the week on June 7th. Anyone else going then?

Packmaster is AWESOME - makes pack admin much easier as well as setting calendars and sharing with the families of the pack. Activities, awards, and adult management has become much eaasier and less time consuming. Can you tell I like it!

By the way, one way to make it easier to set up is have your Council Registrar email you the .csv file for your pack/troop. It will contain all scouts and leaders from your last recharter plus any you've added since the last recharter. from there all you have to do is assign dens/patrols, new scouts/leaders, and advancements.

Speaking of advancements they are also easy to track and submit monthly to council via your own .csv advancement file through the internet advancement system. Same with your recharter.

Thanks for the great replies - but I know there's more of you guys out there that can add more.

Please - keep the advice coming....

Hello all -

I recently received an invite to Philmont for the leader training conference. I am excited to have been approved by council because I have only been in cubs for 3 years. Started out as tiger and now in Bears. I was recently asked to take over an ailing pack by the district and my wife and I accepted the challenge together. We have been so blessed by the families and church we serve.

I am also a commissioner of a pack and 2 troops. So now, to my question.

As a new cubmaster and a unit commissioner can you give me some advice from your experiences at Philmont on conferences and such. I am definitely going to go! In fact, I am extremely excited!

My son will be a WEBELO and we are going to make the trip together for some extra father/son bonding. He also can not wait!

So, please share your advice on conference topics, how to get the most out of the training, how to best enjoy with my son, etc. I've looked at the what to expect and what to pack. Is there anything you didn't take you wished later that you had.

I guess I'm just looking to make this a special trip for both of us and appreciate anything you can provide that will enhance our expereience.(This message has been edited by adamsdwa)