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So if then what? The basic founding principles of our program have not changed since its inception here in the United States. Unfortunately some in society are trying to rewrite policies based on what is more convenient or fits with their personal beliefs at the current time. So then its all-open for interpretation? Its what ever we feel like on any given day? Then there really are no moral absolutes, because whatever the next day might throw at us may demand changing our belief system or way of living? The next time a Scout breaks the Scout Law it is open for interpretation on what he r

Please, I hesitated using that example for just this reason. I only used it because it provided a way to show that large numbers don't necessarily equate to what is correct or the right way of doing things. I didnt mean it to bee seen as a comparison for morality.

Well, nonetheless, they get my vote! Hooray for Heroes! I remember a bunch of southern states that once wanted to have slaves. Guess history tells the story of what happened with that one Just because some people think differently (even if they are large in numbers) doesnt make it right.

I agree with everyone for the most part up `til le Voyageur. Some people and groups are unfortunately trying to rewrite history and wash God out of our lives and if they had their way the entire world. There is absolutely no question what our forefathers intended- a freedom of religion, not from religion. The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and just about everything that has been signed, attested to, or proclaimed has been done with Gods grace in the respective year of our Lord. As far as Scouting, yes, the founding principles of the Boy Scouts of Ame

And one more thing. Have you even read their board? It's obvious that they think I'm a liberal and gay. Which is absolutely absurd. And for all those that have known me here on these boards know that I'm exactly the opposite. It is indeed sad that when someone attempts to be trustworthy and honest that he is riduculed and called names.

Erizona: No, I'm not accusing everyone that voted as being a liar. Thats absolutely absurd. What I am pointing out is that posting this type of pole on a single-sided political action site will obviously skew the results. I would really like to think that all those voting from freerepublic were all actually Scouts or Scouters, but my better judgment tells me thats unlikely. If the individual was looking for a higher number of respondents as he so stated, then the best scientific and accurate method would be to post it on all political action sites, not just ones that fit with hi

Dear tjhammer: No, you are wrong. We dont accept all kids. We dont accept kids that dont agree to abide by the Scout Oath & Law. In other words, if a Scout refuses to be trustworthy, kind, obedient etc., I as a Scoutmaster have every right to send him hiking. And while I can try to change them, there is a point when I have to look out for the wellbeing of my other Scouts. A self-professing shoplifter has no place in my troop. Im sorry, but we do have higher standards. In fact we have many standards for membership. I cant wait `til the Shoplifters Association of America takes

Khepera: Its not that we arent seeking the support of outside organizations or people. Further, its not that we want to keep the poll small. You have absolutely missed the point of this poll. It was to find out what CURRENT REGISTERED MEMBERS OF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA THINK. There was no ulterior motive. Those who do not want outside influences are really saying we only want to hear ourselves and not others because we are selfish and want what we want. Excuse me, but did you not read the question? How many of you would leave the program? In oth

Please also let me add that even though I said that I would leave the program, I DO NOT consider that a win for Scouting. Our leaders are the most dedicated, caring, and well-trained citizens that our youth could ever interact with. I did note that while I would leave the BSA I would still continue to provide the same type of program that I have offered through the BSA. "To instill values in young people and help them make ethical choices over their lifetime." The values of which are of course found in the Oath and Law. Just wanted to make that clear.

Dear Khepera: I am an honest person. I try to always be Scoutlike. I have posted many times on these boards and before you start making accusations I strongly recommend that you find out more about me. I am not afraid of any results, because I am confident in the Scouting program. I am confident in America. You also seemed to forget that I voted the same way you voted. Just what is it I want for the Boy Scouts? Sir if you had any clue what my experiences have been, you would not be questioning what I hope for in the Scouting program. All that set aside. You deliberately mad

Well, that explains it. Now it begs the question- How many people voting are actually in the Boy Scouts? That was the point of this wasn't it? "What reason is there to have a poll if your not promoting an agenda?" Ummmm, maybe to get people's opinion... I am a strong supporter of the BSA, traditional family values and everything that Scouting stands for. This also includes fair play. Posting this on a conservative political action site in my opinion is not fair play and is not why I believe OldGreyEagle put this poll here. I believe it was to gain the opinion of Scouters. I

Khepera: "I have more faith in our scouts than to accuse them of cheating without knowing for sure that is the case. I believe they understand and honor the scout code." Scouts and Scouters aren't the only ones posting on these boards. Many people come here just to attempt to advance their own agendas. But let's look at the logic and probability shall we? OldGreEagle posted at 5:00 PM and attained a total of 19 votes by 12:12 AM (prime Web hours when people are usually awake). Then between 12:12 AM and 12:47 AM the vote suddenly changed it's 1:3 ratio in favor of Staying in the B

I'm never wrong.

OldGreyEagle: When I posted my response the "no" vote was at 4 and I think I made 5. Unfortunately someone in the last hour has not honored your request to be on their "Scouts Honor". It's too bad too, because I thought it was a neat poll... Maybe the moderator can track down their IP and send them hiking. I hear there are some wonderful trails in Antarctica.

I would most likely step out of Scouting or at least the BSA's program. However, I wouldn't stop providing the program to the kids. What would that mean? Probably a lot more fundraisers so we could buy our own liability insurance and a new name. Maybe something like "The Morally Straight Boy Scouts of America that Believe in God and Traditional Family Values". That way no one would mistake my organization for their local shopping club.

Sorry, I should have qualified my statement. Please allow me to rephrase. Given my experiences as a participant in each organization, in my town Scouting was more exciting and I conclude that the reason for this is because the government sponsors 4-H. However, other clubs in other towns may not be as bad as my town was. And in no way should this statement discourage you or you kids from trying 4-H, because they might actually have fun and learn something.

SCOUTER-Terry: I too want to thank you for providing this service to Scouting. I can't imagine the time you spend keeping this site working and looking good. I think "most" of my posts have been in good taste, but thank you for reminding us of the purpose. Keep up the great work!

So that's why 4-H was such a drag! And I still would rather be camping!

I guess Im not speaking what I mean. My only point is that most chartering organizations dont appear too interested in what we actually do. Whether they should or shouldnt isnt my point. The lucky ones have members in both the chartering org and the troop. But until recently ours didnt. Now Im in both. I am trying to help them understand, but most of them just put their trust in me the SM. And Ive got a good feeling that that is the norm across America. Plus, certain groups dont often times want to be Boy Scouts. Most of `em are over 75. Id love to see even one of them come camping

Currently our chartering org doesnt know much about how to run a Scout troop. I learned how through experiences, Wood Badge, and other things. I dont see anyone in the chartering org having a real interest in learning how to run a troop. Given that, yes I would have a problem if they tried telling my boys (that use the patrol method) what theyre going to do or not do. I see enough bureaucracies elsewhere and dont need it from my chartering org. They just dont know Scouting. They are meant to affiliate with so that Scout troops can get some cash on a regular basis or have a place to meet.

That's why you won't be camping with my troop. My comment with regard to the chartering org was with reference to the fact that most don't actively involve themselves with the unit. Unless you consider signing a piece of paper and maybe giving some money being actively involved. At least that's how it seems the majority are. It wasn't an argument about having power. And by the way, in my unit the PLC is the most powerful entity. If our chartering org made it their mission to mess with our troop, wed be taking a hike. My original comment was about reality. And talking about reality

I'd rather be camping...

and since I'm a bow hunter, after reading the past messages I feel it is my obligation to turn myself in to the authorities. so long all...

I am only posting this reply in order to removed from this thread. But I'm sure that if you all try real hard you can make it go on for another year...

Dan, if it appeared that I was saying following the book was a waste of time, thats not what I meant. What I was trying to point out was that I already did read it in some book and what followed would be paraphrased. In other words I wasnt going to use my time just to get the absolute correct wording. However, since you brought the thought up, in my opinion some people do waste a lot of time and get way to stressed-out over some guidelines. Dedicated Dad: youre right, I was a bit off track, but as you follow the threads you can see it does digress a bit to some other ideas on why cam