christineka

Then they should politely bow-out of the job.  Why do it if you're going to half-ass it?

I think they generally mean well.  Or they're afraid to tell the bishop "no".  Our 11 year old leader shows up just to be the second adult, but only sometimes.  I know his wife really gets on him about doing things outside the home, when he's not at work.  The active and amazing 11 year old leader is actually from a neighboring congregation.  Our two have joined up efforts for the kids 8-11.  The really awesome guy not only has a job and kids, but he is also the assistant commissioner (or something like that) and helps run a community pack.  Somehow he manages to have time.  Maybe because he loves scouting and so does his wife.

I'm sure this is a really dumb question, but I'll ask anyway.  In a group of lds moms, I asked about their sons' lds troops, etc.  (Most stated that their troops were very active- either camping or having an activity at least once a month.)  One lady stated we should not be hard on the lds leaders, since most of them have jobs and families.  It's just too hard for them to do a decent job at scouts, too.  Am I right or am I wrong?  Do totally volunteer leaders tend to also have jobs and families, too?  

Lots of stuff in here to respond to.  I live in Utah, where there are few non-LDS run options for scout troops.  Being LDS, we feel obligated to have our son belong to the troop he's supposed to be in.  My husband is very much rule oriented and thinks it's outrageous that I would even think about letting our son join a community troop.  Why does he need double scouts?, he says.  I like to remind him how he himself quit scouts, blaming bad leadership on a bad scout experience.  (I am a convert, so I guess I don't understand such loyalty to a scout troop.  My dad is a scouter and I tagged along with him a bit.)   Son is signed up for one that is supposed to be forming.  (Has been for 6 months)  I hear it might actually form soon.  There are two other community troops in the area.  We visited one.  It's on a bad night and involves me driving a distance, sitting around for over an hour, then driving him home.  While they were very active, they were not particularly scout-like.  It was more of an adventure club for boys.  No rules.  Not boy led either- just had an adventurous leader.  If you walked in not knowing they were supposed to be scouts, you wouldn't know it.  The other group also meets on a bad night and so we didn't check them out.  Maybe we'll look into them anyway.

My son is sorta out of cash at the moment, so he can't go buy stuff himself.  I could have him reimburse me after the fair, but we did not plan in advance for him to have to purchase stuff for camp.  (He does not get paid for simply being a member of the family.)  He will actually have to collect some stuff from the house.  We have about a fourth of the items needed.  They just aren't in an easy "grab 'n go" location.

As for him and friends.  He's homeschooled.  He has no friends.  His social life is with the boys at church, the other boys that play brass instruments in bad, and boys in 4h.  (Sometimes the same boys.)  

I think maybe I see what you're saying about earning eagle.  My next older child is a daughter.  She earned her big religious award a week before her 13th birthday.  She only began work on it when she was 12.  Most girls are 14-16 when they earn this award.  Daughter chose to get it done.  The only part involving me, was that when she told me she wanted to clean people's homes, I went on facebook and found safe homes for her to clean.  (She was too young for facebook.)  After she earned her award, she helped her special needs older sister earn hers and pushed me to earn mine, along with earning the next award.  She's also the kid, who practices viola 3 hours a day, does her chores, helps siblings, and showers as needed, all without me saying a word.  

I will continue to push son to finish merit badges already begun (because I hate having them sit around with just one or two requirements), but let son figure out how he's going to complete life and then eagle.  Perhaps it'll be later, but maybe he'll learn to have some sort of inner drive.

Also, I've had some issues with church groups.  I know that church is like a hospital for the sick, not for the well.  No one is perfect.  We all have our faults.  If some church groups don't run by the book, then they just need to be made better.  I've realized that if I quit, I can blame only myself for not sticking to my beliefs and trying make things better.  While the scout troop may have many faults, I think my son, ought to work to make things better.  Not sure how a 12 year old can do that, but I will encourage him to try.

The program your son's troop is running is not Boy Scouts.  But neither is the program you have cobbled together for him.  There is more to Scouting than pounding out requirements with your mom.  But you clearly don't want to hear that.

 

Find a real troop, register your son and then leave them both alone.

What in the world do you think I'm doing with my son?  I'm quite certain that what you think I'm doing is not actually what I am doing?  I spend most days reminding him to practice piano and do his chores.  This past week I've also been reminding him to get his 4h story finished, write his letters to potential buyers (he's raising a lamb) AND yes, finish up the prerequisites for camp, which is Monday!!!  (He's only got the wilderness survival kit left and as far as I can tell it involves me going shopping for all the stuff he needs.  I may leave that for his father to do on Saturday 'cause I'm hot, tired, super duper pregnant, and main street construction makes going to walmart insane.)  

Forgot- I also take him to the lamb pen twice a day with his sisters to take care of his lamb.  I also remind him to work there, too.  He chose to raise the lamb.  I didn't force anyone.  

The program your son's troop is running is not Boy Scouts.  But neither is the program you have cobbled together for him.  There is more to Scouting than pounding out requirements with your mom.  But you clearly don't want to hear that.

 

Find a real troop, register your son and then leave them both alone.

  He does not pound out requirements for me.  The ones I've been bugging him to get finished are the prerequisites for camp (camp is Monday and this stuff really needs to get finished) and then finishing up merit badges that are almost finished.  The only eagle required of that lot is family life.  He has to run that family meeting. He's the one saying he can earn eagle by 13.  

Still- his troop is NOT being very scout-like with their ways.  Two meetings per month.  If they even work on a badge, it's because sm chose it.  (They're doing first aid because some boys are doing first aid at camp.  My son has first aid, but it's the kind of thing that's great to review.)  Most of the time they play kick ball or deal with stuff like fundraising or going through troop equipment.  When is he supposed to be working on merit badges if not away from the troop?  The troop isn't doing a whole lot.  Court of honor was a couple weeks ago.  The previous one was in September.  All boys 13+ earned one merit badge, if any.  (The 11 and 12 year olds earned a ton in 11 year old patrol.)  That's 9 months to earn one merit badge.  While I'm sure scouts is more than earning merit badges, I kinda think they should be in the program somewhere.  

Why not join a troop that would give my son a real position of responsibility and actually expect him to do it?  Or a troop that goes camping, does service, and has other fun scout experiences?  If he doesn't have such a troop, why not work on stuff at home?  Would it be better that I encourage him to do nothing more than what he does at scouts, even though that won't ever earn him an eagle?

 My suggestion would be to find the nearest "Eagle Mill" troop where the only priorority is completing requirements. Fun and expierence are secondary there. Because that is what your son really wants isn't it?

Of course not.  He has to do his eagle requirements at home, except for the position of responsibility and camping.  His troop wouldn't even give him a real position of responsibility- just told him to keep being bugler, except they hate bugling.  He would like fun, but also be allowed to go camping and do merit badges.

Currently 3 camp outs are needed in order to get First Class, so if he's been only on 1 camp out, he should not be First class, let alone. Star.

 

He went on 3 campouts when he was 11.  Only one since turning 12.  In lds scouts, the 11 year olds are kept separate from the 12-17 year olds.

I know he knows what he's done for all the merit badges he currently has attained.  They all had some hard work involved, despite the fact that some had been interests of his.  

I have not heard that there is a functioning plc. There's a PL, but this troop is very much adult-led.  It seems the PL's duty is just to welcome boys and give out announcements as he is told by scoutmaster.  They have scouts two nights a month.  No boys wear their shirts, except mine still is wearing his, though he's been only wearing the shirt lately, when he used to wear the pants and hat.  Son has asked for blue cards to work on merit badges, but sm says "no".  Because the 11 year old leader was awesome, he's got more than half of his eagle required badges done.  

I don't see the problem with earning eagle asap.  Care to enlighten me?  As far as I know, he's met the requirements for where he is now.  He just needs to teach with the EDGE method in order to earn life.  

So, son does not actually have to join another troop to camp with them and have it count for the camping badge?  Does summer camp count?  I thought it didn't, but his accrued camping nights don't add up.  (6- I know he went three at 11 and the once more at 12.  If summer camp counts, then it should be 5 more, since he did go last year.)  Son needs 14 nights according to the sheet sm printed out.  If his troop stated now camping out once a month, he'd have over a year before he can earn that badge.  

No, the church troop is not being particularly active or scout-like.  

So it turns out son has to camp 20 nights with his boy scout troop in order to earn the required camping badge.  As a little 12 year old, should he just keep bugging those in charge to go camping or something?  He's set to earn life next month and hoped to move on to earn eagle within the minimum time required.  (He will certainly remain active in scouts after that.)  Guess that possible new requirement of having the boys learn what is required for each rank would have been handy in son's case.  He would have known earlier to attempt to get camping in.  Or maybe he should just go join some other troop in order to get camping fulfilled?

How often does the unit camp now?

 

Most units I know go 10-12 times a year. Some even more.

As stated above- once in 6 months.  I never really paid much attention before.  Perhaps they like to camp in fall?  Somehow, I doubt it.  I know there was one trip my son wasn't old enough to go on.  They went ice fishing and all who went came back with red faces.  So, maybe twice or three times a year, not counting scout camp.

BTW, I did sign son up for a community troop that was forming.  It's been in the forming process for 6 months now.  Not sure if or when it ever will be formed.

Being able to work on the first several ranks at once is most helpful to lds scouts.  The 11 year old boys are only allowed to camp 3 times a year.  Boys enter scouts on their 11th birthday and move on to "regular lds" scouts on their 12th birthdays.  Boys come and go all during the year.  Being able to work on several ranks at once means that the campout a newly 11 year old boy goes on counts toward a rank and he isn't stuck later on, not being able to earn the rank until later on.  I don't know if it's my son's lds troop or it's this way with other lds troops, but in the past 6 months, they've gone on 1 campout.  A boy, who had to wait till 12 to earn whichever rank requires the three campouts would be waiting forever to get those campouts in!  Also, it's hard for the boys to get their camp cooking/food in when there are a very limited amount of campouts.  I do not think there is anything my son can do to get his troop to camp more often. 

 

 

The matrix also says cubs cannot cook but we all know we let them.

Cubs can't cook?  What about the requirements in Wolf to plan and help cook an outdoor meal?  How about the one that requires the boy to fix his own meal and wash his dishes?  It does not say he is not allowed to cook that meal.

I sent the boy in his uniform.  Tomorrow I may have him wear his class B.  I told the director of the art yard, that if she wants him doing anything with paint to have him put another shirt over his uniform shirt.  I don't care about the pants.  The way he's growing, he'll need taller pants soon.  

 

 

He will find in life that what other people do will be of little consequence to what he does. (His children may be irritated by his various excentricities, but what else are kids for?) The issue boils down to:

• Is he proud to be a scout?
• Is he proud to be working on a MB?
• Is he proud of his troop?
• Is he proud of the other patches on his uniform?

 

This is in response to asking his patrol or unit leader if he should wear his uniform.  Seeing as how they don't wear a uniform (may not even have one), why would they be the best qualified person to ask?  

YOUR SON should be asking his patrol leader.

BSA says ask the unit lead.

My son is in a troop, where he's usually the only one wearing a uniform.  

The city is having an arts festival.  Son will be helping out at the craft table (for the little kids).  He'll be cleaning up and giving the little kids supplies and stuff like that.

Just a quick question.  When my son is doing independent community service for scouts (He needs service for rank and for citizenship in the community.), should he wear his uniform?

 That's a shame. Hopefully the new SM will allow your son to have both a fun and learning  chance in scouting. I love how people take on, what I consider, an important job or hobby and feel no need to learn how to do it. Problem with that is although he misses out the scouts miss out even more, or simply walk away never to return. Good luck to you and your son with the new SM.

The new guy actually quit scouts as a youth because it was too frustrating for him.  (On account of adult leadership.)  Coming from that. I think he has potential.   

 I understand that. My point being the previous SM should not have doen it either. Was he trained? I have found in many instances whether a leader is trained or not doesn't really matter. To me it's all part of raising our youth. They will never learn responsibility if it is never given to them.

No.  He was in for several years and never got trained.  He was cubmaster before that and also had no desire to be trained.

It's an unfortunate leftover from the previous scoutmaster.  New one is very overwhelmed.  He does want to do things the way they should, but he's also overwhelmed and in the meantime, running things the way previous guy did.  Sometimes change has to happen slowly.  I do not believe there have been any scout trainings in the area since new scoutmaster came in either.

I have great news to report.  Husband attended committee meeting tonight.  The subject of blue cards came up.  SM asked committee if the boys should or should not keep their blue cards.  The vote was unanimous.  The boys will be keeping their blue cards from now on.  

We aren't rich people either.  The girls' church camp cost was $25 and last year the boy scout camp cost was $75.  We will find out shortly how much scout camp will be this year.  The troop does do a fundraiser.  Not sure if the Brigham City troop did a troop fundraiser or not or is going to an expensive camp this year.  My son is projected to earn at least $100 off the lamb he is raising, so he certainly has means to earn money.

I never even considered making my kids fund their own summer camp fees.  I wonder if they (I have three that go to camps) would get off their butts and do something and I wonder what would I do if they didn't ?  Could I follow through and tell them no camp?  Perhaps I should talk to them after this year's camps and they can start thinking up ways to make money.

This showed up on my facebook newsfeed today.  Thought I'd share.  I would never have thought those painted signs would make enough money to fund anything.  (They aren't my style.)  http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=35055305&nid=148&title=panted-pallets-turn-into-cash-cow-for-brigham-city-boy&s_cid=queue-1

Bugling is one of the most underrated POR's on the list.  So many troops have no idea what potential it has to make things nice for the troop.

 

Yes, I totally agree!  My son's troop only want him to play reveille.  There are a whole lot more calls that he can play!  He knows what they're for, too, because we play bugle calls in our home.  (Of course, he had to know them all for the badge, but that was so long ago now that he could have forgotten.)  (It's fun and much more effective to call children and husband/father from all over the house with the bugle than it is to yell.)