christineka

EWD, I hope you experience a gal like this in your future......

 

I'm sure you'd much rather deal with our cub committee member instead.

I do wonder why the Cubmaster and CC are MIA in this discussion

 

The cub master is brand new. She's also the bishop's wife and feels she must stay in a favorable position with everyone, so she doesn't get into stuff.

Webelos is not Wolf, or Bear Cubs. Parents are no longer automatically allowed to sign off on any and all requirements. It is now the responsibility of the Webelos den leader to approve ALL WORK. The ONLY time a parent would be allowed to approve work done is if the Webelos den leader has given permission for parents to approve SPECIFIC requirements, and/or badges.

 

So, YES, if the den leader, or in your case, ACTING, or ASSISTANT den leader ("Dictator"), requests that your SON provide documentation that he has completed certain requirements, it is well within their right to do so.

 

Especially when you state your son did these requirements over one month ago, but they just started working on Handyman last week.

 

Stop trying to find a "work around". Have your SON make up a chart showing what he did in the yard each day for those two weeks. Then the person who was supervising his efforts (you or your husband) can sign the chart stating he did the work listed. End of problem.

 

I read that about how the webelos' leader has to sign off. That's why I tell her what my son has done, so she can sign off. He can't exactly care for the lawn at scout meeting. He started it a month ago, because that was when there was something to actually do. My husband is rather meticulous with his springtime lawn work, which makes lawn care extremely minimal for the rest of the year. I wanted my son to actually do a bunch of work rather than just go learn how the autoatic sprinkler system work. Family Member is full of stuff that cannot be done at scouts. The Webelos' leader has a routine in which she hands the boy a packet to go home and do at home for the badge. They just do stuff that have to be done as a den together. We were told we had to complete citizenship, fitness, and 1 badge of choice at home in order to earn Webelos. The leader also expects that the boys finish all the badges started at camp- at home. (Trying to find a scientist at work that we can go visit at work. The other boy just talked to his dad, an engineer at home and that was counted for the belt loop.)

You make a point about the chart, I'll make him write up the stuff about the lawn and have my husband sign it. In future, I think I'll take photos or something of what he does at home. I don't know how him writing that he did such and such provides proof he did it, but if that's proper preparation to become a boy scout, I'll make him do that too. I don't know if my kid is the only lazy one in the world, but if I don't make him write down stuff, he won't. Perhaps if I make him now, he'll do it next year on his own.

We do not have an advancement chair. We have: Cub Master (lady), Committee Member, Webelos' den leader, Bears' Den leader (myself), and Wolves' leader and 7 boys: 3 Webelos, 2 Bears, 2 Wolves. The committee member has been in for about 8 months. So far, she has taken control of the committee, the scouts, yelled at everyone for not doing their proper duty, headed up a fundraiser, which included breaking both church and bsa rules- when called on it by the bishop, she still continued with the improper activities, lied so that we won a pack award (gold status, which we don't meet the requirements for), and now has decided that she must make sure the boys complete her version of the requirements before they can earn the award. The Webelos' leader is still here and still working with the boys. She's just accepting help from the committee member.

I do not see anything wrong with my son doing the work to earn all the activity badges. I've read all the requirements for everything multiple times now and it's not all easy stuff. He'll learn to become a better person by completing them.

I'll speak plainly: It is a crying shame that cubs do not have a tradition of handing down uniform pants as soon as they outgrow them. If you see this as a real need, talk to your bishop. Sure, methods of scouting are just methods, but there's a point at which boys want to look sharp (even if they fuss at you over finding their pants). It may not be important to your small group of boys because they have probably only experienced den or pack life, but when they get a taste of a camporee or summer camp, it may matter to one of them. (In fact, you can think of the full uniform as a way of getting a taste of being part of something nation-wide.)

 

I bet if it is mentioned from the pulpit that blue pants should not sit in the back of closets going to waste, you will have a half dozen pairs -- half of which will most likely fit -- at your disposal that week.

Unfortunately, our group isn't like this. We've been trying for a year to get old uniform pieces to establish a lending closet. So far, we've collected a total of 1 shirt, 1 webelos' slider, and 1 webelos' neckerchief. (Came from the youngest boy of our former cub master.) Our cub scout program only began a few years ago (I'm told, I moved here a little over a year ago). The boys, who come with their shirts on do not like to button them. My boy always does, but the others generally don't. My boy wears sweat pants and only wears the belt for pack meeting. He just puts it around his waist. I think he looks pretty saggy in those sweat pants, but he has clothing issues... I will look around to see if I can get him some nicer looking blue pants and then make him wear them.

fOur cubs only do the area day camp with other boys. That's it. Since we live in Utah, the land of LDS scouts, the other boys pretty much dress about the same- maybe a shirt, maybe a neckerchief. One out of 50 has a hat.

My biggest beef is, where in the Committee Member duties does it state "decides whether boy has earned the award or not"? Shouldn't this be under the jurisdiction of his Webelos' den leader? She already marked my son off on completing the geology belt loop weeks ago. She also believes me, that my son has completed the requirement of doing lawn care for two weeks.

christineka,

 

Why do you think that it would not be beneficial for your son to get up in front of his den, show them his rock collection, tell them about it, show off what he learned? Being comfortable talking in front of a group is a learned and practiced skill. Starting to do this at a young age and continued doing so with every opportunity, (whether required or voluntary) will benefit him in high school, college, and life.

In this case- because he's already earned and been awarded the activity badge that the belt loop was required for- and we have no den meetings before the next pack meeting. If she had come up with this requirement before today, I would have made my son do the extra made-up requirements. I've read the webelos' book multiple times now. There are many more requirements that actually say the boy has to tell his den about it. In fact, after the cub scouts visited a museum, I mentioned to the committee chair that if the boys discussed what they learned about at the museum, that they would pass of a requirement for geology, but the committee chair did not start that discussion.

Practicing keeping records aka the chart for home chores for 2 weeks - why is it such a big deal to you? Doing a chore and keeping record of it is within the ability of a 10 YO.

It's a big deal because he already did the lawn care for two weeks. Chores isn't required for Handyman- it's required for citizenship (which he completed with a chore chart) and again for Family Member (which he will start soon, since it takes 2 months) I don't see a problem with making a chore chart. I see a problem with making a chore chart for the wrong requirement!

I'll be frank, and say that based on the attitude that you present in your posts, I would not want your son to cross over in to any scout troop that I was involved in. If you think that a committee member that wants your son to develop life skills is a "dictator", and a "spy", and that awards are more important than skills, then I think your perspective is skewed. Skills will help your son in life. pins, belt loops, patches, awards, trophies, will not do so in and of themselves. They will only help him if they provide incentive to try a harder and learn and do more than he otherwise would have. To give awards for minimal effort and legalistic arguing may make you and your son feel good in the present, but if you think they do a whit for his future, you are mistaken. I recognize that it is likely to be mutual - that you would not want your son to be a part of a unit that I would be part of, because I want boys to be focused on adventure in the outdoors, and not on the awards for the awards sake.

You don't know this committee member. She is takes on the role of dictator. She has also been attending our bear and wolf meetings for the sole purpose of making sure we did what she dictated- or else we would endure her wrath. (Despite the fact that her son is a member of another pack and has completed everything that can be completed without a parent.)

I am offended that you would think I would skimp on making my son complete his requirements. His webelos' leader handed him packets to complete for Citizenship and Fitness and told me he simply needed to fill them out and he would earn those badges. I then checked the Webelos' book. The two did not mesh. I made my son recite the Pledge of Allegiance and then tell me in his own words what it meant. The worksheet, where he had to choose one of two words that closely matched the underlined word, imo did not meet the requirement. The packet also did not contain a service project. I made my son actually come up with and do a service project- unlike all the boys, who were awarded Citizenship without having to do the service project (for the Citizenship pin, which was required.) At camp, my son did not complete all of the requirements that the paper stated he would complete. We came home and I made him do them completely. He had to show what to do in various emergency and first aid situation- not just sit in the group, while they collectively discussed what to do. And there's more. I did not have to make my son do the complete requirements. The other boys did not, yet they earned the badges anyway.

There are 3 webelos in the pack at this time. Two more will come in in July. The boys do not need to earn all activity badges, but my son likes earning things and he wants to get them all completed. (His father did and has his 80's pins to prove it.) At weblos' camp, the boys mostly completed geology, scientist, readyman, engineer, naturalist, forester, and completed only a few requirements for outdoorsman. Other than camp, we only do den and pack meetings. The boys should be able to complete arrow of light after 6 months, but there's the compass badge and the points to earn as well.

Wow, I think the wording on the requirement is screwed up.....

I think so too, but I figure a boy could keep the family vehicle in shape (washing, checking the oil, and air pressure) or keep his own bike in working condition, or in my son's case- take care of the lawn. My husband saw a laborer in my son and made him help with the weeding, of which there was a lot.

It's the committee member that I take issue with. The Webelos' leader currently has issues with family members who need a lot of care. The committee member came in to help with webelos (instead of spying on bears/wolves as she did before). They did geology for a month. Then the cub master got her husband to volunteer to do Handyman with the boys last week. I'm told they did the character connection today. I was told when my son joined webelos that it was my responsibility to get my son to do the requirements for Fitness, do her "homework" packets (I don't agree that those packets fulfill the requirements- as in- it's not enough. Many belt loops are supposed to be completed at home. (Not sure how I can get my son to play team sports. I don't have the money to sign him up for league sports as other webelos have done.), and I was just informed last week that I need to do aquanaut with him myself because cub scout den/packs can't go swimming. We had Webelos' camp a few weeks ago and the den leader expects the boys to finish up anything they started there at home, which was a lot. (I'm trying to find a scientist, who we can visit at work.)

Also, unlike "regular" cub scouts, boys in LDS scouting have only one year for Webelos. They enter at age 10 and move to boy scouts at 11. That isn't a lot of time to earn 20 activity badges. and Arrow of Light.

Here is the link to the cub uniforming page

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/con...s/parents.aspx

I have a hard time with these requirements, being in LDS scouting. The boys are automatically entered into cub scouts. The parent can choose to opt-out, but most of us feel we are obligated to go along with cub scouts. Unlike with a regular group, we did not spend any time thinking about this decision or plan to have to spend money. Our boys do not wear the complete uniform. They all have shirts. Most have all the required patches. Most have neckerchiefs. That's it. They wear blue jeans nd sweat pants with their uniform shirt. No boy owns scout pants or a hat. Our parents have trouble coughing up the money to buy a book. (My boy's books were purchased at the thrift store and his shirt and neckerchiefs were picked up from the church's stash of recycled uniform pieces. As a leader, I have a tan shirt that someone was giving away for free. ) The church is not allowed to purchase uniforms for anyone. Should we go all or nothing as the website states?

We are being a little coy with you. The reason is no boy will be denied the benefits of scouting because he does not have or cannot afford a uniform. Review the methods of scouting. Notice they are not required' date=' such as advancement is not required.[/quote']

 

Oh, I believe you know your stuff. I just need some sort of proof to challenge the accepted norm in my pack.

 

Uniforms are just a method in scouting. There is NO REQUIREMENT to wear a uniform. EVER. The scout just needs to cover his heart and not salute. This is all rather interesting give LDS has a reputation of being very lax with requirements. Again not meant to be a knock.

Seriously? You don't have to wear a uniform to participate in a flag ceremony? Do you have a link from official bsa? I only learned of this requirement from my coleaders, who must have heard it from some other leader, and it's just passed down. I do agree that the LDS are rather lax with the requirements.

The usual household chores are required for Family member. For that he does have to make a chart with all the jobs of the whole family, choose an extra one that he doesn't usually do and do it for two months. (We better start that one soon!)

It says to choose one of the requirements and do it well for 2 weeks.

Here are the requirements:

And do six of these:

2. With adult supervision, wash a car.

3. Help an adult change a tire on a car.

4. With adult supervision, replace a bulb in

the taillight, turn signal, or parking light or

replace a headlight on a car.

5. With adult supervision, show how to check

the oil level and tire pressure of a car.

6. Make a repair to a bicycle, such as tightening

the chain, fixing a flat tire, or adjusting the

seat or handlebars.

7. Properly lubricate the chain on a bicycle.

8. Properly inflate the tires on a bicycle.

9. Change the wheels on a skateboard or pair

of inline skates.

10. Replace a light bulb in a fixture or a lamp.

11. With adult supervision, arrange a storage

area for household cleaners and other dangerous materials where small children cannot reach them.

12. Build a sawhorse or stool to be used around

your home.

13. Help take care of the lawn.

14. Arrange a storage area for hand tools or

lawn and garden tools.

15. Clean and properly store hand tools or lawn

and garden tools in their storage areas.

16. Label hand tools or lawn and garden tools.

17. Put together a toolbox for common repairs

around the house. Be sure the toolbox and

tools are stored safely.

My son did not mow the lawn. I never said he did. He helped set up the sprinkler system and weeded a lot. (This was a month ago, when our lawn was just starting to regrow.)

How do you offer documentation? Should I have invited the webelos' leader to come over and watch my son weed? Or taken photos to prove it? I could make up a chart right now, saying he did it. Then he can show his leader and she's going to believe it, just as she should without the chart. I'd be the one "okaying" the chart, so why not the achievement? Yes, the leader is the one signing things off, but after I, as parent say he did it and then how do you prove or disprove that he did or didn't do it?

My son is 10 and a Webelos cub scout. He recently did all the requirements for the geology belt loop, per what it says. The cub committee member (dubbed "dictator") will not award him his belt loop unless he brings his labelled rock collection to den meeting. I don't see that as a requirement for the belt loop, however. It says to show and tell to your family or den. He showed and told to his family.

Geology

Belt Loop

Complete these three requirements:

Explain to your den or an adult family member what geology means.

Collect samples of igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic rocks. Explain how each was formed.

Collect samples of three minerals. Explain to your family or den what a mineral is and show and tell about the minerals you collected.

He earned the belt loop as one of his requirements for the geology badge, which he was awarded at the last pack meeting. If he hasn't earned the belt loop, then he needs his badge taken away.

She's also saying that in order to earn handyman, he must complete a chore chart for two weeks. The applicable requirement, however states this

c. Practice: Choose one of the requirements and show how you are responsible

by doing that task well for two weeks.

My son already chose to take care of the lawn (not his regular chore) and did so well for two weeks. I do not see how cleaning of the kitchen counter for two weeks could possibly count for completing this requirement, since it is not one of the handyman requirements. Am I reading this wrong?

for th advice! I like the idea of just working on stuff (not necessarily achievements) and having fun, but then our cub committee dictator- oh, I mean committee member (who is mom to the boy, who does two scout troops) yells at us, etc, etc. Of course, we work on stuff that her son has already passed off and he doesn't want to participate... Today we had two wolves only and just worked on the Flag achievement, but the boy, who needs to participate in an outdoor flag ceremony didn't wear his shirt and neither did the other boy.... One of my bears' moms is not seeming to communicate with me. I only have her phone number, but she never picks up- for me. Today, I had my co-leader facebook message her. She stated her son would be there, but he wasn't. He stays with grandma during the day, though. Not sure what happened to my other bear. I know his mom is pregnant with her 7th and it hasn't been an easy pregnancy. (Yep, this is Utah.) Our cub dictator committee member has been helping with webelos and thank goodness for that. I'd rather she wasn't in our meetings.

Hi! I am a bear leader, but we tend to have wolves meet with us as well. (The wolf leader is a bit spacey as well.) I am a LDS leader. The boys move up to the next step at their birthday, so we don't go by the school year calendar. Boys are assigned to our pack by where they live. (They do have the option of joining a "regular" pack if so desired.) Currently, I have 2 bears and 2 wolves. The bears turn 10 on June 30th and July 18th. The younger one has not earned his rank. The wolves turn 9 mid July and mid November. The older boy recently joined (he's not LDS) and has not earned his rank. The younger also belongs to a regular pack and only has "do with an adult relative" stuff left to complete. We tried to plan meetings to help the younger bear earn his rank- only he hasn't shown up for a few weeks. Then, we thought we'd plan meetings around what the oldest wolf needs to complete, but his family has issues and he's not a regular attendee. For the last two meetings we had 2 cub scouts show up. (I made my own son, who's a webelos attend last week to add one more boy. I can and will do that as long as Webelos do not meet at the same time.) I try to make these meetings fun, but it's very difficult with only a few boys. We did games one week. The boys had fun, but it was tricky finding games that could be played with no minimum number of kids- or didn't involve touching, so the leaders could play as well. Then we did physical fitness stuff, but one boy is very self conscious of his weight and I don't want to embarrass anyone. On top of that, I worry that with summer, we are going to have problems getting kids to show up. Last year we had more kids and had only 2 kids on average show up. (Those two would be my son and my former partner's son- both of whom are now webelos.) I feel like it's quite a waste of my time to go through all this planning (and I think there's more planning involved when I have to plan for as little as 1 kid showing up) to have no one show up. I know the one boy is important. I wish I could procure more boys and ensure they showed up so that we could do more activities. 1st, how do you balance between doing achievements that only some kids need and others don't? 2nd. How do you recommend I approach summer scouting with only a few?

Sorry to hog the board today as a newbie, but I came because I need a lot of help! As stated in my earlier thread, I am LDS, serving in an LDS troop. The positions are filled by being "called" and are unfilled by being "released". Basically, you don't petition to work in scouts, and although you can voluntarily quit, sometimes you are simply made to quit.

A few weeks ago, our cubmaster and assistant were released. They asked, so they kinda quit as well. No one has been called yet to become the cubmaster or assistant. We have one committee member, who is overwhelmed with everything else she has to do. She isn't doing much as a committee member.

In two weeks we will have a pack meeting. Due to a church conference this weekend, it is certain that no one will become the scout master prior to the next pack meeting.

We have been told that we are supposed to do the Arrow of Light Ceremony for a couple boys. We have 3 Bear/wolf den leaders and two webelos leaders. How in the world are we supposed to hold a pack meeting with the Arrow of Light ceremony? Do we need to cancel the pack meeting due to insufficient leadership?

Again, I cannot read the messages on this board at all. I have no idea why not, but if you could email your responses to me, I would be most appreciative. I need help, advice, and guidance! My email address is cncurry1111 at gmail dot com Thanks!

I can't read any of the threads in this entire forum. I don't know why. I failed to click to be notified when someone replied to my other thread. If someone could please copy and email me any replies to my other thread, I would be most appreciative. My email is cncurry1111 at gmail dot com Thanks!

I'm a new Den leader. I have two others, who are also new. We need help. We are an LDS troop, so none of us leaders really volunteered, but we want to do our best. We meet at the church. Being LDS, kids automatically become cub scouts on their 8th birthdays. They don't have to do it, but it is expected. The church pays the boys' dues and other fees. Our troop dynamics are a little different because no one has chosen to be in cub scouts and no parents volunteer to help do anything. That said, we had a bad meeting today and I wish I could throw in the towel.

We have had a rough time getting boys to come. They said they wanted to play sports games. We decided to do that today. 8 boys actually came! There were big problems, though. Two boys came solely to play. At every opportunity they were showing off how they could throw the ball in the hoop. (We were learning to serve a volleyball and playing kick ball.) They publicly expressed disappointment in several boys who were obviously not athletic. (My son is among the non-athletic.) Then when it was time to divide the boys into teams for kickball, they tried to be on the same team. I chose a different way of dividing teams, so they were on opposite teams and were upset. I paired off the boys to hit the racqetball to each other, but the jock best friends didn't get each other and so refused to work with their mates. Kids were all over. One boy got upset that the other boys weren't doing as expected... Anyway, it's chaos and certain kids don't respect others. We have a boy with both mental disabilities and physical deformities. He's a webelo, but coming to bears instead with his brother. We've got several other boys with mental disabilities (high functioning autism and adhd). Basically, when we have a bunch of boys, cub scouts is chaos and feelings are getting hurt. The rest of the time we've got only a couple boys showing up.

One of the den leaders has a couple high functioning autistic boys of her own (webelo and boy scout) and went to school for counseling, I think. She can be really good with some things, but we could use some more ideas and help. Please tell me anything you think might help!