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On 5/19/2022 at 2:11 PM, SiouxRanger said:

Does it matter?

 

Yes.  If the adults were not in the troop, no reason to report the incident to the boys CC or COR - a SE or Unit Commissioner may be a more appropriate resource.

I believe what you are asking is does where they are from excuse the behavior.  The answer of course is no.

On 7/29/2015 at 12:00 AM, Gone said:

If your a mod you can push people around, threaten to ban them and then close the thread. That's scout like?

you're

On 7/26/2015 at 6:01 PM, Scouter99 said:

Is it "harmful" to point out these facts: Gay men use meth at a rate 20 times the general population, gay men contract HIV/AIDS at a rate 14 times their share of the population, a study of San Francisco gay men found that 20% had more than 1000 sexual partners, that the suicide rate for post-op transexuals is the same as pre-op transexuals.

Maybe we should restrict males from joining the BSA?

19 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Yeah, no longer ok to just say that. That is how some units have done paintball etc. not a good idea. 

Understood but is the new G2SS rules practical?  For example, I've taken Scouts to public places that don't have separate restrooms for youth and adults.  How should that be handled if one wants to follow the proverbial letter of the law?

On 1/23/2024 at 6:24 PM, Jameson76 said:

So the YPT rules state - One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.

So a Scout who turns 18 is considered an Adult Leader (when registered), so this would apply.  Not saying I agree, but I am not claiming to be a lawyer.  As they would have to register to attend an overnight outing, seems like a trap.

For a few years during Scouting for Food, our troop would run the collection agency.  All of the Patrols/Troops and Dens/Packs would bring their collections to us and we would load it into a huge 18 wheeler truck.   We did this from about 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM. 

Anyway, as a sign of gratitude someone gave me (the Scoutmaster) about 10 tickets for Lions (NFL) game the next day.  I asked who wanted to go and there were 9 boys.  So what was I to do - take all nine with no other adults?  No other adults wanted to go and tickets weren't cheap.  The solution (this was 20 or so years ago before the ". . . and outside of Scouting" portion of the YPT in The G2SS existed)?  My solution was to communicate to each of the Scouts parents that I would chaperone the boys to the game but it was definitely NOT a Scouting outing. 

Not sure I'd do that now.

On 12/21/2022 at 9:47 AM, Eagledad said:

You keep say “the attention span of girls” as if girls are different. What are you comparing against. I’m not confronting you, I’m just curious how you came to that conclusion.

Barry

At younger ages (say Kindergarten) females have better fine motor skills and can sit still for longer periods of time.  Boys fine motor skills catch up quickly but they are more "active" learners.  Want to punish a six year old boy?  Tell the boy to sit still and quietly for 15 minutes.

Go to any High School graduation ceremony of a public school and tell me which gender perform (grades) better?  The females by a mile.  Now go to a college and do the same thing.  The males not only perform as well but often exceed the females in college. 

Think of how we teach children - cooperation, working together, don't disrupt, don't interrupt, etc.  Conform!  Women do that exceedingly well (as compared to males).  What do we reward in the workplace and higher education?   Think outside the box!  Try new things.  Be demonstrative.  Be an innovator, a disrupter!   Males exceed in that environment.

Yes, the above are gross generalities but they do ring true in aggregate - at least in US culture.

Around 2004 our BSA Troop went to the Dorchester International Brotherhood Camporee in Dorchester (London), Canada.  It was my first exposure to girls in "Boy Scouts" (Scouts Canada allowed girls in their program long before the BSA).  At the time I talked with many of the leaders (Scouters) in Scouts Canada about the pros and cons in allowing girls to join, how they handled having girls in the troops, etc.   Overall, the positives greatly outnumbered the negatives but a few things stuck out for me.

1) Many troop had difficulty getting adult women leaders (a requirement for outings with girls present) to attend outings.  Meetings and such wasn't a big deal but not many women wanted to go camping.

2) I noticed at DIBC in my own (all male BSA) troop that the behavior of the boys, especially those 14 and above, was much more mature when girls were present. 

Anyway, my involvement in BSA activities waned considerably right before girls were allowed to join due to my boys aging out and over a decade of being a Scoutmaster it was time to step back.

Curious what pros and cons other may have with the recent changes.

Another issue/question: Private online communications (texting, phone calls, chat, IM, etc.) must include another registered leader or parent.

So when a Scoutmaster, alone at home, receives a telephone call from the SPL, with his younger PL brother, the Scoutmaster can't take the call?

Obviously, these "rules" appear to be written by lawyers and not driven by common sense.

That's hazy to me.  "There are careers" - does that imply a paid position?  Does that imply a full-time position?  Does that imply a paid position for significant period of time?

At one time, Boy Scouts could go on overnight camping trips with no adult supervision present (if a patrol outing and approved by the Scoutmaster to make sure it was a well planned out event).  That's no longer allowed.  Partly due to lowering expectations of our youth and more due to the allowing of female scouts.  

I'll admit, I haven't been actively involved with Scouting for a decade or more but I always told Scouters to look at youth protection rules as something to protect them (it was an easier sell and made them less defensive). 

Look at this from an extreme.  You're home alone and a couple of girl scouts ring your doorbell in an attempt to sell you cookies.  Are you saying the BSA doesn't allow you to answer the door? 

Slow down everyone.  Youth protection rules, per the Guide to Safe Scouting, only apply to Scouting activities.  For example, if your 18 year old son is a phenomenal guitar play and wants to to give guitar lessons to a 15 year old - no issue.  One on one contact is allowed.  If however, your same son wants to be a merit badge counselor for the music merit badge, Guide to Safe Scouting rules apply - no one on one contact with minors (unless it is your own son or daughter).

Now I'm not saying it's a good idea to ignore those rules outside of Scouting events but they don't apply outside of scouting events.

Let me be very plain - were the adults in question "Scoutmasters" or "Assistant Scoutmasters" and were they Scouters in your son's troop?  

Assuming they were either SM or ASM and a member of your son's troop, I'd talk with the COR, CC and/or the SM about your concerns one on one if possible.

On 5/5/2021 at 1:38 PM, seguru said:

Sorry, but before I identify as a Scouter, I first identify as an American... and anytime someone says they're going to "block" or "delete" or "censor" free speech, I say NO, and offer the warning that you don't "get it" when it comes to Free Speech.

The proper response to "offensive" speech is MORE SPEECH, not less... especially in a forum specifically categorized as "politics" where there are deeply-held and fundamental beliefs.     The "sanitizing" of opinions is not healthy, despite your good intentions.

I'm allowed to censor. Terry is allowed to censor.  Twitter is allowed to censor.   Facebook is allowed to censor.  The USG is not allowed to censor.  It's a really simple concept.

FWIW, I don't see anything at all wrong with the shirt.  It brings to mind a hike we had at Double H (New Mexico/Backpacking) a couple of decades ago.  One of the adult Scouters had on a pair of hot pink shorts (and I mean really short shorts).    He wasn't in our trek but our boys couldn't resist teasing me (their Scoutmaster) and insisting I get a pair to match!   It was all in good fun and out of earshot of the other group.

YPT issues are shared with the Scout Executive  and all reports should be held in confidence.  However, maybe I'm old fashioned but I would not characterize this incident as a youth protection issue.  Was the Scoutmaster wrong in his behavior?  Quite possibly.  When you state your son was bullied by "two Scoutmasters" - did you mean the Scoutmaster from two different troops (quite possibly none of which belongs to your son's troop)?  Or more probably, by two Scouters that were either the SM and/or an ASM of your son's troop?  If that was the case (all parties were members of the same troop), I'd try to handle it internally and approach the COR and CC (Charter Organization Representative and Committee Chair) if you or your son don't want to deal with the SM/ASM directly.

I can see a determination that is a judgment call on what is or what is not a "class b" (not really a scout term but widely used) but the predominant color of the shirt shouldn't be an issue.

Around 15 or so years ago, our Boy Scout Troop attended the Dorchester International Brotherhood Camporee in Ontario, Canada.  At the time of course, the BSA youth was all male but Scouts Canada was co-ed.   When we attended I had some interesting conversations with Scouts Canada adult leaders about what they thought the plusses and minuses of "going co-ed" were for them.  About the only negative they sited was the difficulty in finding female Scouters to attend camping trips.   

An intended benefit I saw from the boys in my troop were that the younger Scouts (not yet really interested in girls) didn't really care about the girls one way or the other but the older boys, not wanting to appear "uncool" in the presence of their female peers, curtailed some of their more undesirable shenanigans that can occur when a bunch of male teen get together.  

Those experiences were enlightening. 

The best way to get involved is to talk to the Committee Chair and ask what areas the troop may need assistance from wrt a Scouter.  If the response is "we're covered", well that could be a possible red flag.   If the response is "we need help in the xyz area", determine if that is something you want to get involved in.  

What you don't want to do is go in being demonstrative about a bunch of changes needed (even if they are) right from the get go.   

IMHO, as a Scouter, do you want to work with the Committee behind the scenes or do you want to work with the youth in concert with the Scoutmaster?   That is the first decision a prospective Scouter should ask themselves.

1 hour ago, jcousino said:

Not the best of possible question as a response.  This item may have meaning to this person.

 

I believe this was in reference to a certain mustachioed former German leader's party.

Lions?  That's a blast from the past. 

Summary of comments

Troopmaster ≡ Scoutmaster (correct term).   The Scoutmaster is in charge of Advancement in the troop.  FYI, Troopmaster is a software program.

Merit Badge Counselors are not allowed to have one-on-one contact with Scouts (unless they are the legal guardian of that Scout) therefore the "at least two Scouts" rule which you may have conflated with "two merit badges."

One does not need two adults to counsel merit badges.   There does need to be two-deep leadership for outings.   So if an outing is used to meet a merit badge requirement, two-deep leadership is required. 

A few decades ago the "Issues & Politics" thread was created for the specific purpose to house many of the controversial areas of Scouting.   Therefore, as a moderator, it was my belief to be slightly more tolerant of behavior that I thought was questionable - that is, something I may take an issue with in "Advancement" would get more of a pass in "Issues & Politics."

But just like I tried to discuss in a Scout like manner on  this forum why I thought the decision to ban avowed homosexuals was incorrect before the policy was changed (we could debate if it really ever was an official policy - IMHO it was not) we should be able to debate the policy now.   But we should take great care and err on the side of caution not to disparage youth for their sexual identity regardless of what it is.  That really falls out of our purview and should be up to the Scout's family and others.   I treat religion in the same way - I've been a member of a Roman Catholic charter organization and an Episcopal charter organization and am a member of neither.   I could answer questions about religion wrt the BSA but I made no attempt to "teach" the Scouts about certain denominations.   That was a task for others.

Scouting events shouldn't be used to promote gear.  I've taught certain Scout courses, to adults mostly, where we bring samples of what we own and give "pros" and "cons" to certain equipment but we don't have a vested monetary interest in what others will decide to buy.   I'm not aware of any vendors at scouting events that I've attended other than those having a general store at summer camp and vending machines with logos.

We don't want to go "Mar-a-Lago" like or "Bedmister" like and mix scouting with for personal profit motive in our actions.   We already have enough of that in our country today (sorry for getting on my soapbox).

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:11 PM, Eagledad said:

Since I'm just used to how our district performs EBORs, explain to me the difference between council members and volunteers? All our EBOR members are volunteers, but they are trained and that is their responsibility. Is that the same?

Barry

Who may sit on a BoR (for a troop)?  A board of three and no more than six troop committee members, all of whom must be at least 21 years of age. Unit leaders (Scoutmasters for a troop) and assistants shall not serve on a board of review for a Scout in their own unit. Parents, guardians, or relatives shall not serve on a board for their son. The candidate or his parent(s) or guardian(s) shall have no part in selecting any board of review members. 

For an EBoR (Eagle Board of Review), the Council may make additional rules - via their advancement committee.  At the troop level, at least one district or council representative, who is not affiliated with the unit, must serve as a member (kind of a quality control person).  The EBoR is unique in that the board members (some) may be non-Scouters.

We are all volunteers (we don't get paid).  But only some are Scouters (registered in the BSA as adults).  Usually, the term "Volunteer" is not used.  There are Scouters, non-Scouters and Scouters that are council representatives (silver shoulder loops represent district and council). 

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 11:39 AM, FireStone said:

I think the intent of re-testing is all fine and good, but it's just not consistent with the current BSA advancement model. We're not a proficiency program anymore, although as I understand it we were, once. But that was also back before there were so many merit badges, and the idea of proficiency testing was more feasible.

Keep in mind the folks that say you can't "retest" are sometimes misleading.  If a Scout rank has a requirement to tie a clove hitch, a BoR can and probably should ask the Scout to tie a clove hitch.   That's perfectly allowable.  The key is why?  They should do it not to test the Scout, he has already demonstrated proficiency to his "leader" if the requirement has been signed off.  The purpose is to test the Scoutmaster, who is in charge of the advancement program within the troop and see if he (or she) is doing a good job.   Heck, I don't remember if I can still tie a clove hitch knot anymore (it's been a few years) so a single Scout's success or failure to do so should be the end all or be all of the program but if the boys never seem to be able to tie knots or answer first aid questions properly during the BoR - that's a warning sign.  

Of course, that requiremes BoR members to be knowledgeable about the requirements too - a topic for another thread.

Folks, go back and see what the responsibilities are of the BoR members.  One is to make sure all of the requirements are met.  How do they do that?   They look to see if the requirements are properly signed off.   If the Scoutmaster has signed off on requirement 5 (While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community.), then by definition the requirement has been met.  Also, before a Life Scout begins his project ... Your Scoutmaster, troop Advancement Chairman, and a representative of your District  Advancement Committee, as well as the benefiting organization, must approve your project before you begin carrying it out.  So, to then go back at a BoR and say the project or Scout didn't show leadership if unfair.  Forget appealing, the adults need an education.

"We" don't show leadership.   The Eagle candidate should show leadership.  If the Scoutmaster signed off on his requirements - to the Scoutmaster your son has shown leadership in his POR (Position of Responsibility) and has give leadership to others in a service project according to his Scoutmaster.

You may suggest to your son to confer with the BOR and Scoutmaster and see why there appears to be a disagreement on his "leadership."

I've seen issues when a Troop Committee has issues with a Scoutmaster and Scouts get caught in the middle.  I have no idea if your son's case falls into this category but the remedy is to find a new Scoutmaster or Troop Committee or both, not to have a Scout get stuck in the middle.

How old is your Scout?   It he has some distance between today and aging out, I'd ask for a little more clarity from the BoR members other than "do another project" about the leadership component.  Ask you son if he feels he demonstrated leadership and if he feels he has, articulate how to the BoR.  If he feels he did not, investigate further.  It sounds to me, from what little I know, the Scoutmaster (who may or may not have been his Eagle advisor) and the BoR team are not on the same page.   Sometimes that is an issue.   Per chance was the Scoutmaster the father of the Scout?

Keep in mind the Scoutmaster is in control of advancement in a Troop.   Maybe he (or she) should have a heart to heart with the committee?