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Posts posted by campcrafter

  1. Acco wrote... ask yourself these questions.


    Can one be moral if one does not believe in a God or Gods?




    The idea of ones inability to be moral without belief in a god is preposterous and one I hope you weren't proposing, though I know it is an argument many religous promote.



  2. JoeBob wrote: But I don't want to lose the other freedoms inherent in Christianity.


    Which freedoms do regard as "inherent in Christianity."?


    I think the histories of Puritans, Church of Rome, Calvinists etc and the idea of inhernet freedoms due to Christianity would make for interesting discussion.


    Too often I think those who regard America as a Christian nation confuse the freedoms that were given to us by our secular constitution and government as being somehow Christian.


    England was a Christian nation and the founding fathers revolted. They should not have done so if they were "good" Christians and believed that George was king by divine right.




  3. Narraticong wrote: the founding documents leading up to it most certainly leave a clear trail.


    I admit to being ignorant regarding a lot of my American History. If you would please give me the titles of some of the documents you refer to that I might look them up.




  4. Narraticong wrote: On the other hand, as an American, I believe every citizen has a right to believe in any god, or no god, whatsoever. Without a doubt, the Constituion makes it one of our God given rights (figure that one out).


    What's to figure out? There is a doubt - The Constitution gives us the right as citizens. God has nothing to do with it. God is not mentioned in the Constitution.



    Narraticong wrote: It might be more fitting to strongly encourage individual participation in worship of the Scouts own choice, made with his family. Encourage a quiet time on outings when those of like belief may choose to worship together as a small group. A time when individuals can partake in individual worship time, commune with nature, or just take a nap.


    I fully agree with you.




    cc(This message has been edited by campcrafter)(This message has been edited by campcrafter)

  5. Brothers,


    A Scout is Friendly.

    A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.


    A Scout is Courteous.

    A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.


    A Scout is Kind.

    A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing.


    A Scout is Reverent.

    A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

  6. "Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise...."



    HA - I had forgotten about that skit!



  7. I am sure that a lot of folks think I'm a whackjob! :)


    I do see a bit of conservative trend in some folks but they aren't the majority of those in the pews.


    I think Ratzinger was elected as honor of his servie to JP-II and the church and that due to his age would be a transitional pope after the long term of his predecessor. (But of course that's what they thought about John XXIII and look what he did!)


    Really only time will tell.




  8. It is not a "Catholic Thang", as you have so colorfully put it; it's a whackjob thing.




    Didn't mean to offend only that in the Catholic Church (to which I belong) as far as I know are there these so-called true believers who think Vatican II was heresy and wouldn't mind bringing back the Inquisition.


    I don't know that other denominations have these type nuts in them. In those they just break off to start their own denomination?.


    Hopefully I haven't dug myself in deeper here!


    (It won't let me edit my previous post)




  9. It's a Catholic Thang!


    The first few lines of his "article" should give a clue.


    It is a special blessing for me to be a Catholic apologist and to preach the Gospel of Jesus

    Christ. Whenever I am confronted with errors against the Faith, I do my best to expose

    these errors for the salvation of souls according to the gifts that God has given me. It was

    by Gods providence that I discovered a very dangerous movement that is attacking the

    Faith and the Church.



    He is a self important religious fanatic who is concerned more about rules and dogma of the latin church of the past than he is about his fellowman - contrary to what he will tell you. I've met his type and have a few in the parish I belong to.


    And if you look at the site the article is on: Catholic Apologetics Intl, you see they are part of the group who think they know better than Rome itself. Not to worry about the attack on OA, they also have the righteousness attack the USCCB - US Conference of Catholic Bishops, basically the governing body of the church in the US.


    My eldest brother called be the other day asking if I had a certain lodge flap since he is volunteering again in the lodge of the council he now lives in. Oh and he is a permanent deacon employeed by the church.


    Salza and his ilk would call him a heretic.


  10. Thank you all


    Cooper is doing well right now. His blood counts are down as of last weeks treatment but we hope them to be on the way up when they check again tomorrow. He has shown remarkable courage and determination to beat this thing and is in good spirits.


    As for me I am thankful that " once a scout always a scout" and I could come here for support from this fellowship. It really means a lot to me.


    Peace and Blessings to all of you.



    aka Campcrafter

  11. I have not posted in long time - since my son dropped out of Scouts a year or so ago.


    However I know that there are many pray-ers here and so I am asking that you say a prayer for my son Cooper, 13, who was diagnosed with brain cancer last month.


    After several weeks of headaches and vomiting last fall, an MRI was done and a tumor found.

    Surgery in mid-December removed 85-90%. It was then we were told it was cancerous - anaplastic ependymoma. He is now receiving chemo treatments and then will undergo radiation beginning next month.


    All prayers and positive energy appreciated.


    Yours in brotherhood,



  12. Thanks for the notes and yes I hope he'll want to try another troop in a few months. Maybe after the first of the year.


    Semper- To clarify - no it wasn't that the uniform is dorky (he had full uniform socks and shorts and neckerchief as do most of the boys in the troop now), nor was it outdated merit badges (he had Space Exploration and wanted to do Pets and First Aid)and most of his buddies are in Scouts, about 5 of these boys go to the same school and have been in Scouts together since Tigers. Nor the icons - the boys in his patrol chose as a name Rabid Wolverines and thought it cool.


    It was lack of leadership and disorganized and BORING meetings. The program was/is not being followed.


    cc(This message has been edited by campcrafter)

  13. Dear Fellow Scouters,


    Well things just haven't worked out at the troop my son is in and he has been put off so that he and I have decided to move on to something else.


    Thought things were getting better but after reports about the campout this weekend ( we did not attend my son was sick last week and with the weather and homework we thought it best to stay home) it just isn't getting better. There is no leadership in this unit.


    I did discuss with my wife becoming more involved, but based on a number of factors we decided it just isn't worth the anguish ( or our marriage)


    My son at this time is not interested in visiting another troop - too bad because we do have a couple of others in the area that have a good rep.


    If you are a new (or old)leader please get the training, follow the program and deliver the promise.


    So to Big E, One Hour, Trev, Ed and Ma and all of you I wish you Happy Trails and Good Souting! I will miss this forum and will no doubt lurk from time to time.









  14. Brian wrote:

    Please post after you are a little more prepared next time.



    In reading your web site you link and mention some statistical numbers from the BSA web site.


    Other than that, as shown by your TOC below, everything else is your opinion. No it is not scientific. You do not try to expain what the numbers on the BSA site really mean.






    COMMON MYTHS OF WHY WE LOOSE BOYS.. AND IT IS NOT PERFUME AND GAS FUMES! Actually Brian the "Older Boy" Problem has been there since day one. Check BSA's Venturing web site.


    Also on that page you write:

    The kids are not interested in Scouting. Actually, this is not a myth. Sitting around a campfire singing nursery rhymes that ended up being thrown out the window, the window, the second story window. does not resonate with most middle of the road 13-18 year old boys. Some will disagree, but I have a 10.9% one year decrease in enrolment to help substantiate my hypothesis here. No offense meant to those who love the cheers. Most of the youth don't, in my experience.


    What evidence do you have that shows this drop is due to sing around a campfire?

    You say that this "hypothesis" is based on your experience. How much experience is that? So show us your data.


    I never remember singing nursery rhymes around a campfire. My expereince is boys love to sing - realy gross silly songs. I hypothesize that is what leads many boys to join scouts. ;)













    I am not one of the good old boys in Scouting. I am for making the program exciting for the boys. Unfortunately few boys "receive the promise." If more people would worry about their own program then we wouldn't be having this discussion.


    What are you doing as a Scouter in YOUR unit to make it more attractive to boys. It is actually a very flexible program.


    You wrote on your web page:

    Scouting, in my opinion, needs an overhaul. And it may be uncomfortable for the established long time leaders. That is ok, Scouting is about the boys, not the leaders. We would do well to remember that.


    Your opinion you admit. I will admit that many Scouters are not "my kind of people" and are in it more for themselves than the boys. Scouting IS about the boys and those who work to provide a good program know that, and know boys, and their units are healthy because of it.


    Actually my tenure as a volunteer is quite short - less than 10 years and most of that in Cubs. However do not lump all "old-timers" who think the program is working into some group of old-fashioned, ignorant dinosaurs.



    Finally Brian, as has been mentioned before on thread such as this, if you don't like this program and your son thinks it's dorky, why are you wasting your time? Why not start a new program based on your ideas. B-P did.


    Do you mind telling us a little more about yourself?


    Were you a Scout as a boy?

    How long have you been a volunteer Scouter?

    You were asked to lead the "Venture part of the troop but to be the leader as well over all the other adult leaders." Please explain. Are you the CC or COR?








    (This message has been edited by campcrafter)


    First off I want to mak clear I mean no offense to Brian - I do not know you and can only respond to what I read.


    BUT Brian has the same "tone" as many who have joined this forum wanting to "SAVE SCOUTING" from itself have had, and at first I thought it might be one of those persons come back. I'm still not sure.


    Brian you say you were recruited and sent to WB in what sounds like a very short time period and have been stunned by the declining numbers in Scouting. Do you not think that others who have been around for years have seen this "problem" and are trying to address it? Certainly in a more scientific way than the based on the few observations you have made.


    I think we make too much of the numbers and look at quantity instead of quality. A quality program will attract more boys, we have all said this. A quality program can only be delivered by dedicated leaders who know what they are doing. The training will help but just like reading a diet book won't make me lose weight, just attending the training does not make one a leader. We have few real leaders. Fortunate for us on the forum many in the program share here.


    Finally in my opinion and just that, BSA will never be what it was in the 50's and 60's not because we aren't doing it right - but the whole dynamic of our society has changed. Look at men's fraternal oraganizations, they are not what they used to be either. Do you think it is becasue they have dorky meetings at restaurants or silly names like Elks, Lions and Kiwanis ( what does that word mean?)



    If we deliver a quality program to those boys interested on a local level - we will have done our best to make a difference.










  16. Re: the Jolly Roger


    The oldest Sea Scout Ship in the country is Ship 24 in Houston

    SS Jolly Roger


    When my brother was a member of the Ship their medallion was a round, black patrol like medallion with white skull and cross bones. Sur eit still is.



  17. Without doubt this man has been a good scoutmaster as far as leading the boys.


    He should be thanked and wished well.


    However people being what they are the boys will eventually find out why he separated from his wife.


    Then the boys will ask why did we give him an award if he wasn't morally staight?


    Do you have an answer for them?



  18. Big E


    of course I have no answer for you, but it does show that good scouting is something that has to be worked at and unfortunately for all his being in your presence little of your Souting Karma has rub off onto this guy. How sad for the boys in the troop.


    I will say though I feel relief that even someone as knowledgeable and as dedicated as you has these kinds of difficulties. This and ASM59's thread makes me realize I am not alone in my frustrations and that I can't force others to "get it"


    We all know its a great program IF you do the program.


    I'll light a candle for HWMBO.









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