ThenNow

1 minute ago, fred8033 said:

I'd love to see the bill versus payment.  A lawyer friend of mine made the comment that he's sure the court was not necessarily paying 100% of the legal bills.  Courts can reduce fees as they see fit.  ... I'm not seeing that in this case.

If you have a link to it that I can see, I'd appreciate it.

I can’t get to the OmniAgent docket at the moment. Take it up with the little money-shoveling man, er, person.

3 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

QUESTION - Is that money flowing out right now?  Or pending settlement? 

I think the docket entries are on the 20th monthly billing cycle from the professionals who submit their invoices for approval.  So, yes, the dollars are going out. I’m sure someone else has a handle on this. I just tried to get on the Omni site and the little construction worker is still shoveling money out of the virtual street. I think it’s cleanup after the most recent bags of money were hauled out of the vault. 

11 minutes ago, MattR said:

. The example in the article was that for Enron it was 2% and for the BSA it's already 40%. 2% wouldn't have much impact on what survivors get.

I'd like to see that 40% split out by the various groups of lawyers.

As Eagle1993 noted, in fairness, we need to recall the layers of complexity as we’re not dealing with a single monolithic entity, regardless how large. The 250+ LCs, 1000’s of COs and their major affiliated entities, time frame, innumerable properties, desire for non-party releases, 50 states + territories, pages and pages of insurance policies, and claim valuation variables make this a simultaneous code brown in a nursery of 500 babies with only two diapers and one nanny. Also, the way the article bundled the discussion, it appeared the contingent fees were being rolled up into the estate fees conversation. That was not clear and I think it bears clarifying. I won’t be the one to do it, however. My abacus is done busted. Anyone want to help a brother out? I’m tired...

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

So the TCC lawyers are not members of any law firm that are representing victims on a contingent basis?  Really?  If so, I did not know that.  

Mysterious, right? And that is no shadow of darkness on any claimant committee’s counsel. This where the web is tightly woven. So, across the spectrum of legal counsel in this case (not including in-house and out-house counsel for the insurers), including those billing the Debtors’ estate, we have at a minimum:

1) Contingent fee state court plaintiff’s counsel who headed the charge in open and window states pre-filing;

2) Debtor’s bankruptcy counsel, and there are several iterations - billed to the estate, at a max hourly of $1700 per;

3) PSZJ, lead counsel for the TCC - billed to the estate with 10% to the Settlement Trust;

4) Pasich, TCC insurance counsel - billed to the estate;

5) All the contingent fee claimant’s counsel that came post-filing;

6) Coalition and AIS counsel - I lost track of how many layers - and, as noted, the Coalition wants their attorneys’ fees paid by the estate. Yes. The contingent fee attorneys have attorneys who also have attorneys and the groups they formed have attorneys or something like that. Seriously, I want a flow chart. When this became apparent to me, I knew (for sure) the wheels had come off and/or I have multiple screws loose. Probably all of the above.

I have not included all of the other asset assessment, accounting and analysis firms billing the estate. Also, in case I wasn’t clear, multiple of the AIS and Coalition attorneys have their own counsel who have been and will be pretty busy for a spell.  I’m sure I missed things, but I can’t think about this any more...

1 hour ago, MYCVAStory said:

Bad week for the Coalition continues.  Judge just ruled that it can be deposed.  Insurers lining up to do just that.

Link to the hearing? Omni’s site is “Under Construction.” A graphic of a little man with a shovel is on the homepage and he seems to be working on piling up a  YUGE number of $100 bills. It’s odd.

Never mind. I just overheard a brief debrief that indicated the hearing about which I heard, and asked, was brief and concluded. 

41 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I really liked the article that an auditor was hired to look at legal fees in this case.  They were able to reduce charges by $200,000 or so.  Then, billed the case $200,000 (or so).

Little Charlie Dickens would be proud, if not aghast, at his fortunetelling abilities. (Nod to Bleak House.)

15 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

"confidential"

They actually used, “anonymous,” which was a flat out lie and they (should) know that.

2 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

Worth remembering, the TCC's lead firm agreed AFTER being retained to give back 10% of its fees to a Survivor's trust.  It's something, and not matched by the professionals from any other group

Yup and the article even mentioned it.

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Most of these costs would have been avoided if BSA did a national bankruptcy only.  Including COs & LCs made it incredibly complex and unique.  Add in 84,000 claimants and the process grinds.

To say this has become obscene strains the word’s ability to convey its meaning. From the Latin it is, effectively, “abominable.” The theory is our word comes from the combination of “in front of” and “filth.” 

To top it off, it turns out my attorney read the article, too. He just emailed me. Wants to up the baseline hourly to $8 and demands I agree to lift the cap. I can’t win. There was an e-signature button, but I was afraid to press it for fear if I did my already-cast ballot would turn to a “Yes” vote. Life is goofy. And scary. And expensive. 

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

"Boy Scouts of America estimates the bill for their professionals, plus those hired by the official creditors’ committees, could be more than $205 million by the end of the year. That’s approaching the amount Boy Scouts said it would contribute to a trust for survivors: $219 million."

Glad I read this article before eating breakfast...

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

perhaps the TCC has information on the Survivor Working Group from the BSA and Coalition? For example, has the group met?

Coalition. Events. 11.30 Update @ 34:00. https://scoutingabusesurvivors.com/events/

20 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

There is a screenshot in the docket above where an individual submitted a ballot to K.R. that they selected Reject and the receipt from K.R. states Approve.  If true ... wow.

Ruh Roh, Raggy...

22 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

To me, it's less of a concern about girls taking charge than it is having to live with an extension of high school into Scouting.  My experience was that the moment girls factored into the mix, the dynamics changed in the troop.  Guys were suddenly showing off, picking on other kids, etc.  We ran into co-ed Italian and Norwegian troops at Kandersteg and this happened.  Same thing when the sister of one of the Scouts in my troop came with us to a water park.  One of the guys had a crush on her at school, and he started being a dick to others when she was there.  Maybe the 21st century male is different, but I doubt it.  

I have several contexts to compare. Three are decades dated, and two within the last 15 years. I’m also not sure if all or any are currently relevant. I’ll stick with our sons’ and my experiences. 

I had multiple groups and activities that were coed and many that were not. Scouts stands out as the most “male-centric” and sequestered of all, including sports and being an altar boy (server). In the coed situations, all the elements of boy/girl tensions and attractions dramatically changed the dynamics, even in theater, band and choir. It was hormonal and culturally unavoidable. If the sports had cheerleaders, again the same tensions. In Scouts, putting the abuse and perversions of our Troop leaders aside, we had none of that, unless there were family visits or fully public events. I can’t even imagine the “sc-outing” experience if it had been coed.

As to my sons, the same holds. Most notable, our youngest went to an all boys boarding school with a “sister school” located not too far away. If you camera-isolated the boys in the coed group and separately, you could almost always see the difference. Granted, some boys were oblivious, consistent and so focused on their tasks/performance you’d never know. The boys only environment It made for a very intense, productive and security-nurturing experience for him. He would not be who he is today without it. My nickel’s worth.

22 minutes ago, skeptic said:

That simply shows me that the male youth are not willing to step up.  The real leaders will come to the top, given the opportunities.  If the girls are taking the lead, what does that say for the boys?  They can either take the challenge, or let the girls do the job and simply coast.  Again, the ones that want to will come to the fore.

As to the mature guys coming to the fore, I think that can certainly be true. I couldn’t have  cared less and only would’ve been more inclined to push my way in to impress. I supposed that’s a different type of behavior alteration. As a dad of both boys and girls, the physical and cognitive developmental differences - in terms of onset and maturation - were stark. I also factor in the impact on shy, reserved and introverted boys. The presence of girls can cause what look like trauma responses in them, mostly freight or freeze, occasionally flight. This stands (stood?) as a barrier to some boys ever being “able” or ready to make the inch or leap toward leadership. Dunno. More nickels, I guess...

22 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

The court as officially opened up Kosnoff's deposition.  It sounds like some documents that were redacted may be updated on the docket.

I suppose it’s a matter of checking and rechecking to see when they land, out in the open and flapping in the wind, as it were?

https://people.com/crime/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-settlement-vote/?utm_campaign=peoplemagazine&utm_content=new&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=61b1ffb54c9fd40001e2efd0

12 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

It's certainly an overall organizational failing, but the lack of such data is one of the reasons I'm unimpressed with Officer Mike's tenure as head of YPT over the past decade.  

It’s my understanding (from reviewing org charts and talking with random people who have various measures of knowledge and information) that he reported to Steve McGowan. Having any and all research and recommendations fed directly to legal, especially a Scouter of great note and political influence, leads me to question who is to “blame” for any failings. He was also fired/RIFd in the midst of a whirlwind into which he probably has more insight than most who remain. That seems to speak to how his boss(es) perceived what he was doing, reporting and recommending. Still curious how and why that went down. It could also speak to incompetence, but I prefer the conspiracy theory myself. 

I’m not sure if this is widely known. Thoughts?

https://13wham.com/news/local/transgender-teen-kicked-out-of-boy-scout-troop

11 minutes ago, elitts said:

Ugh.. it would be great if something like a hospital's M&M conference could be done on these things, but our legal system makes that sort of thing being open for public inspection horrifying to contemplate. 

Right. I get it. There are systems of incident/harm reporting, with elevated levels of urgency, review and scrutiny, that feed into root cause analyses and searchable data segmentation. I’m really just looking for the raw, redacted data to understand means, opportunity, breaks in the protocols and the like. Without data assessment at multiple levels, it’s difficult to make solid decisions about what’s working, what’s not, what needs to be done better/differently and how to accordingly “arm” those in the field trying to prevent repeat scenarios. I’m also extrapolating from other industries, admitted regulated and highly scrutinized. I guess I don’t know that BSA is doing that, even at the highest levels, much less letting it filter down through some dissemination. I could be wrong. Dunno. Just a blindfolded man throwing darts and a board. Everyone behind the bar. Quick like! 

5 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Give me background on who it will go to and an address and I will gladly double that. 

Same. So we don’t go to far into swapping names and addresses, maybe a mechanism to keep it on the downlow, too. 

21 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

At the same time, my understanding of how the vast and overwhelming amount of abuse comes about is from repeated contact and at least some amount of grooming or isolating, and that the vast majority of abusers are not actually going to have a prior history of arrest and conviction for abuse.

This is one of the several black holes that exist in my ongoing review of YP and YPT. BSA won’t cough up the data or metrics specific to the history of child sexual abuse in Scouting and the full context of all abuse since the implementation and improvements. For example, I’d like to know the full story on the shower camera predator from all sides of the equation. It would help a ton in understanding his vetting, access, supervision or lack thereof, recorded dicey history, anyone ever suspect or notice odd behavior, and etc. It seems like common sense for these things to be made available to LCs, Units, COs and parents. No?

2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

That you are giving your lawyer 100% of the recovery?

So I’m told. Greedy bugger. 

Random and macro-level observation that you all know: This is bloody complicated. Executing something relatively straightforward, built around a few core principles, is now a veritable maze. I don’t mean YPT, because I think it’s critical and requires improvement in key notable areas. The lack of transparency and connection to the straightforward design and application of the core principles by National has become a a magnifying glass on the ant running the maze. I think I now better understand why the org chart needs to be flattened on top, as well as flipped on its head.

19 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Or how about you will get your small check quicker and I will get my fortune quicker!! 

At this pace, current projected timeframe and scale of the Settlement Trust, I’m estimating my attorney will make between $6 and, if lucky, $20 per hour on this case. (Multiple factors play into the potential for a “greater” upside.) For historical context, I think he made $7 per hour (with OT) loading UPS trucks his first year of university. That was 1979.

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Just to register here is $45 national membership fee plus $5 insurance.  So, $50.  (This includes the BSA's background check...you don't have to pay for that.)  Then add uniforms, gear, fuel, food costs, training, time, heartache, etc., and the price tag can be about $1000 per year easily...

Ok. So, what about a parent who wants to register so they are able to hang out at camp, but can’t/doesn’t care to invest the additional bucks? 

4 minutes ago, malraux said:

It’s around $50/year. The time commitment the unit might require changes depending on the unit. 

Isn’t there the YPT requirement or is that separate from registration? I thought the background checking and YPT certification were “all of a piece,” as they used to say.