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CalicoPenn

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Posts posted by CalicoPenn

  1. Seems the consensus is to drop the non-active merit badges in favor of more outdoor/activity oriented merit badges.  I thought about it in terms of the mission of the BSA:

    The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

    I don't see anything in the mission of the Boy Scouts of America or in the Scout Oath and Law about Scouts becoming better outdoorsmen.  Its all about making ethical and moral choices.  Its about, as the DRP puts it, becoming the best kind of citizen.

    Its those non-active merit badges that seem to fit in much more with the mission that the active merit badges.  Just something to ponder, I think.

  2. On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:53 PM, gblotter said:

    Expressions like yours only reaffirm that those of us who disagree with the co-ed Scouting decision longer have a home in BSA.

    By your statement, I guess you believe that GSUSA (who excludes boys) is an organization composed of sexists and bigots who are on the wrong side of history too, right? Oh yeah - I forgot that your liberal door only swings one way (against boys).

    The only one saying you no longer have a home in the BSA is you.  It's your choice - not anyone else's.  

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  3. 1 hour ago, RichardB said:

     

     

    So couple of discussion items: 

    What requirements are there for youth to use wheelbarrows or wagons?  Unaware of any but please let me know.  

    What risks would be present for younger scouts in the use of wheelbarrows or wagons?  

    Discuss.  

     

     

     

     

    Do you really want to be pedantic about "requirements".  Fine - there are service project hours required of younger scouts and those service projects may require the use of wagons and wheelbarrows to complete.

    As for risks present for younger scouts in the use of wheelbarrows or wagons?  None that I can think of for wagons, something young boys AND girls use outside of scouting all the time.  For wheelbarrows?  As long as they are working with wheelbarrows of an appropriate size and are not trying to steer a wheelbarrow up or down a ramp into a truck or building, the only real risk is that the wheelbarrow tips and spills its contents.  Instead out outright banning wheelbarrows, how about emphasizing that Scouts need to use wheelbarrows that are appropriately sized for them (ie a smaller garden-style wheelbarrow and not a large mason's wheelbarrow) and that Scouts can't use wheelbarrows on makeshift or other ramps?

     

     

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  4. 5 hours ago, David CO said:

    I do. If some guy told me that he was a card-carrying flaming liberal atheist, but then he found his beliefs to be inconvenient because a friend/family member/sweetheart was a devoutly religious conservative, so he switched sides, then yes, I would hold the same distain.

    A better example, which I actually witnessed, was a strict, law-an-order, lock-em-up and throw-away-the-key type of person who suddenly switched sides when his own kid was arrested. The opposite would be a liberal soft-on-crime type who switches sides when his own family becomes the victims of a crime. It drives me nuts when people claim to believe in something...right up until it becomes inconvenient or uncomfortable.

    (The TV show, Murphy Brown, had a very funny episode about this.)

     

     

    Thanks for answering in the spirit in which the question was asked - I wasn't trying to make some backhanded comment - I truly was curious - and correct me if I'm wrong but it seems your answer can boil down to you dislike the hypocrisy inherent in the 3 act story.   I'm not a big fan of these type of conversion stories either - from any political/religious/etc. side.  You're absolutely right - they are so cliched.

  5. On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:13 PM, David CO said:

    This is one of the standard boiler-plate arguments that is used over and over by liberals who wish to attack traditional religions. It has become a cliché.

    Just curious - do you hold the same disdainful opinion about the "3-act story" when its a conversion from sinner to righteousness?  Is "I was a sinner and hellraiser until I met a preacher who enlightened me on the glory of Our Lord, Jesus Christ and now I am a deacon of my church" any different from the 3-act story you seem to mock?

    • Like 1
  6. 4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    I just wish my CC/COR would get involved. All he is interested in is BORs. Since I've been in the troop, outside of BORs, Scout Sunday, and the late SM's funeral, I've seen him twice at Scouting functions. And they were not even the parents/committee meetings. I do know one ASM is glad for the situation as he does not like the CC/COR. He says he likes things without the interference. But without a CC and active committee, we are having issues.

    Our fundraising efforts have either been hijacked by the new parents. They wanted every patrol to have all new equipment, when we still have serviceable equipment, instead of using funds for sending Scouts to summer camp. And the fundraising attempts to send Scouts to camp have been horrible. One had so many issues, that it has taken 2.5 months to resolve. Another fundraiser was given 2 weeks notice, and then it was a night 1/2 the troop was not in attendance due to Easter Break. A camp out was cancelled for this last minute fundraiser, and it was cancelled a few days before due to low ticket sales. Kinda glad because the folks organizing it did not coordinate with the CO. They had their fundraiser, which was the same thing we were going to do, the same weekend and location! And a 3rd fundraiser, one that had great participation AND made some money last year, was not even organized. We are now scrambling to find camperships for at least 3 Scouts.

    Summer camp paperwork is in shambles. No one on the committee took on that responsibility. No one knows how much they owe, what paperwork is needed, when things are due, etc.

    We have advancement record keeping issues. Stuff is not getting recorded by the council, and they have lost paperwork. If I had not called the council on another issue, and then asked about the status of our Eagle application, we would not have known that the "never received the paperwork [Troop's Eagle]." talking to the district advancement chairman, he sent the application and 2 others all at the same time.

     

     

    I would never cancel a scheduled campout for a fundraiser. 

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  7. 10 minutes ago, TMSM said:

    We used Silk screen last year and they all peeled off which is why the numbers they tried to use this year were off by 4 or 5. By the way the picture above is and example of how they use stencils,.

    I didn't expect them to do this to adult or my standards but I did expect and tell them that I would give them some instruction before they started. I give them an A+ for effort and i'll let te PLC grade the rest which should be interesting since the SPL was the one who helped the QM. 

    As for sloppiness of this not being debatable I'll ask you to enlarge the photo and take a good look. Coleman fuel worked great on cleaning up some of the splatter and all will be good once they redo. 

     

     

     

    I hope you didn't use Coleman fuel to clean up the splatter on the tents - that's a sure fire way to destroy all water resistance in that area of the tenant.

     

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  8. 7 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

    I just have to say I feel this ideology is egregiously false. Gender is an inherent, essential part of who we are. It is not at all fluid - a girl cannot become a man, nor can a boy become a woman. Those who disfigure their bodies in a desperate attempt to change from one to the other will only reap misery and regret. I refuse to accept that a boy who alters his biology to become, physically, a "woman," is a woman - he is still male inside, and nothing he does will ever change that. And vice versa. This, of course, is strongly related to my beliefs, which hold powerfully that we existed before we came to Earth, that we have s purpose for being here, and that we have an eternal destiny after this life. The deceit which claims we can change our sex or gender, just because we don't feel like we fit current societal perceptions of gender, is false. A male has always been and always will be male. A female has always been and always will be female. I am not fooled by modern suggestions that try to dis-establish the permanence of our sex - just because a child feels he doesn't fit the way the world personifies a man, doesn't mean he isn't one. The same for girls. I find the fact that this discussion is even current I find a sad commentary on the way the world perceives who it thinks we are.

    You are still confusing sex with gender.  Everything you've mentioned is about the sex of a person (and humans have been able to surgically change someone's sex for decades - we won't even get in to the animals that are able to change their sex to fit conditions).

     

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  9. 17 hours ago, David CO said:

    Being born into a gender, male or female, is a part of what it is to be human. Many plants and animals don't have a gender (or a fixed gender). I think it is very strange that some people will argue that my saying that people are born with a fixed gender is somehow denying that they are human. I feel that the opposite is true. Those who deny that people are born with a gender are denying their humanity, and are equating them with plants and animals.

    Liberals need to start treating people like human beings.

    You are not born in to a gender.  You are born in to a sex.  Gender is how one expresses themselves - and yes, it's as much a choice as choosing one's religion.  It's just a lot more uncommon to choose to express a gender that is opposite of one's sex. 

    So liberals need to start treating people like human beings?  How is treating someone the way they want to be treated not treating people like human beings?   It's not liberals separating children from their parents and putting them in to internment camps on our southern border.  

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  10. On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:43 PM, The Latin Scot said:

    Mercy. It's that kind of ideology that breaks my heart; gender is NOT "fluid" yet society is becoming increasingly hostile towards those who still recognize this, while trying to force this suggestion on increasingly younger age groups. I was told at one preschool - preschool, mind you! - that as a teacher I could not "assume that all boys will grow up to be men, nor that all girls would grow up to be women," and my language in the classroom was supposed to reflect what they called a "non-gender bias." Of course I totally ignored that policy, and spoke against it whenever I could and to whomever's attention I could get. Luckily enough parents were on board that we were able to over-turn that mandate, but who knows when the tide will turn against us? 

    I don't believe gender is a choice, nor that it is randomly factored into our birth. I think it's something that has always been an essential part of us, and it's not something we can change, whatever we may do to our bodies to convince us otherwise. But the fact that the BSA now holds that a child can participate in Scouting as whichever gender they choose is one of the BIGGEST frustrations I have with the direction this organization is heading. 

    Gender is a social and cultural construct - not biological (its a common error to use gender when what one really means is sex).  Since gender is not biological, it is very fluid - both on an individual level and on a societal level. 

    Why would it be a bad thing to use language that does not reflect a gender bias in school?  Is it  really that difficult for people to say "firefighter" instead of "fireman" or "police officer" instead of "policeman" or "flight attendant" instead of "stewardess"?

    As for "the fact that the BSA now holds that a child can participate in Scouting as whichever gender they choose", why stress over it now - it's a moot point next year. 

    • Upvote 2
  11. 1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Actually I am quoting the onlive version of the G2SS as the screen capture below shows.

    This is where I think it will be a battle of the lawyers. if you go the Guide to Safe Scouting Website, https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/

     

    It states the following:

    Download the print-friendly version here. link-PDF.gif This is the full PDF version that contains updates as of May 2018.  Please refer to the online version for the most updated information. [emphasis added

    Viewing the online Guide

    The online version of Guide to Safe Scouting is available here.

     

    When you click the link to the online version, https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/toc/  it gives you a summary of the updates AND a table of contents withlinks to individual sections See below for image.

     

    When you click on Youth Protection and Adlut Leadership link, it takes you to this webpage, https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/  On that webpage its what I quoted, i.e the Effective October 1st provision.  

     

    So, one set of lawyers may try to use the pdf, but another set of lawyers can show that the pdf not only has links to the online version, but also states the online version is updated quarterly, and is more current than the pdf. 

     

     

     

    You're right - its not the online version that I was looking at - it's the print version which says this:

    Adult Supervision

    Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting

    activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader

    over 21 in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader over 21

    must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the

    minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision

    must always be provided.

    All adults accompanying a Scouting unit who are present at the activity for 72 total

    hours or more must be registered as leaders. The 72 hours need not be consecutive.

     

  12. 40 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Another example of BSA's literature not being consistent and/or lack of understanding, program experience, or ignorance. And probably bot.,  The printable G2SS PDF published prior to May 3rd 2018 had no "Effective October 1st" disclaimer. When it was first posted here, there were concerns about summer experiences, i.e. summer camp, Philmont, etc in which plans were made using the 18-20 year olds  for YP compliance. Making a major change with no advance notice is a serious problem. I know one poster commented that he was contacting Philmont to see if this would affect his crew or not. And I know at RT, the SMs present were hot under the collar, to put it mildly, since several troops were relying on 18-20s to meet YP requirements at summer camp.So I bet councils, as well as national got an earful about these new, essentially last minute rule changes.

    As noted in the G2SS pdf, the online version is updated quarterly, implying that it is the most current version. Plus BSA announced that the new G2SS pdf was being published prior to the online update.Since the Online version of G2SS is acknowledged by paper version as the most up to date version, and since the online version states https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/

    Adult Supervision

    (Effective October 1, 2018)  (Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader over 21 in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader over 21 must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision must always be provided.

    All adults accompanying a Scouting unit who are present at the activity for 72 total hours or more must be registered as leaders. The 72 hours need not be consecutive.

    One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting. (Italics and undelining added)

     

    It is safe to say someone got a dose of common sense, and is giving us 5 months to adjust. I know some units are having some discussions on this because this change is major, discourages the Patrol Method as originally envisioned by our founders and implemented by them, and they do not have enough healthy over 21 year old adults and rely heavily on their 18-20 year old ASMs

    That's not the actual G2SS that you're quoting - it's a summary put out by National.  The actual G2SS does not contain the "effective October 1, 2018) language - and that's the version that BSA legal counsel will use if anything happens that they need to defend the BSA over.

  13. (Resetting the trip line - and adding pink warning tape to it)

    COH's held four times a year.  Rank patches are handed out at the next meeting after a BOR (yes, that means someone has to go to the Scout Shop that week).  The rank cards and parent pins (used to be "mother's pin - now we give one to each parent) are handed out at COH.

    Merit badges are handed out at COH - but the SPL (not the Scoutmaster) announces at the end of every meeting who has earned a merit badge that week (if any).

    POR patches are presented at the Spring and Fall COH - but we also use the COH as the start of someone's term of office.  Regular elections  are held twice a year 3 weeks before the spring and fall COH's.  Appointed positions are appointed two weeks before the COH by the incoming SPL.  The time between election/appointment and the COH is used to transition so that the new Quartermaster, SPL, PL, etc. can hit the ground running.  We have a short ceremony where the outgoing POR holder gives the incoming POR holder the patch for their position - the old Scribe gives the new Scribe his patch, etc.  The ceremony ends with the old SPL giving the new SPL his patch.  If someone is becoming a JASM - they get their patch from the Scoutmaster before the PL's, ASPL and SPL gets their patch.  If someone is re-elected or re-appointed to the same position, it is simply acknowledged during this time.  We make sure all PORs are recognized in some fashion during this period - even Den Chiefs who will get their cords from the SPL.

    If a POR changes between these two COH's, the person will get the patch right away and be recognized at the next COH.

    (As an aside - once the new SPL gets his patch in that ceremony, he takes over the meeting right away.  This handover is done near the end of the night's COH so the "Old" SPL starts the meeting and the "New" SPL ends the meeting - we find it really drives home the point that there's a new sheriff in town).

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  14. 1 hour ago, JoeBob said:

     

    2018:

     (Effective October 1, 2018) Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings.

     

    Just a quick note - this is already effective - no waiting until October.  The Guide to Safe Scouting is updated online quarterly and this sentence (without the effective date modifier) is already in there.

  15. 6 hours ago, Kryten said:

     

    all adult registered leaders must follow the G2SS outside of scouting.

     

    This is not a complete sentence - it is missing the part that says "with all Scouting youth."

    The actual sentence reads:  "Registered leaders must follow these guideline with a Scouting youth outside of Scouting activities".

  16. 54 minutes ago, Rick_in_CA said:

     

    As can be seen, it has a rather Judaeo-Christian slant to things (which is not surprising as James West came over from the YMCA and it was 1910).

    Just as an aside - the DRP was created in the first decade of the BSA (which is why it's in the Bylaws and not the Charter) and it appears that James West was a primary reason for it - but not in the way that the above implies.  The DRP was created to assuage the Catholic Church which was worried that because the BSA was closely tied to the YMCA at the start that the BSA would become a Protestant organization under James West and not be open to Catholics, not because James West wanted it.

    Another aside, since it was mentioned - the BSA stated back in 1920 that Buddhism was compatible with the BSA and the DRP so hopefully we can put that one to rest.

  17. 35 minutes ago, David CO said:

    Mike Rowe, perhaps. My impression is that Mr. Rowe is not the sort of guy who would take on an honorary position that has no real authority to make changes. He seems to be more interested in getting the job done than in collecting personal honors and bling.

     

    I think you put in to words exactly why people think Mike Rowe would be a good person to head up the BSA - he gives the impression that he's interested in getting the job done so that's how people think about him.

    The thing is, no one really knows what he is like in the real world.  Mike Rowe has a degree in communications - he is essentially a journalist.  Mike Rowe's claim to fame is a character he has created named Mike Rowe who starred in a "realty show" doing "dirty jobs".  We didn't get to see the behind the scenes stuff where everything is set up for Mike Rowe the person to exit his comfy trailer to become "Mike Rowe" and do some kind of "real work" for 5 minutes or less while he was being filmed, then heading back to his comfy trailer, or the food stand, or just chill out in a chair gabbing while the next scene was set.   What people are seeing is the character Mike Rowe, not the person Mike Rowe.  

     

  18. 1 hour ago, blw2 said:

    it could be better spent on folks that will keep the program grounded and cool, more so than the way it has been...

    Want to know whose job it is to keep the program grounded and cool?  Not the executives at the BSA Corporate.  Not the members of the Board or Executive Board.  Not some figurehead like a Bear Grylls (and lets be very honest here - Bear Grylls is in that role for one purpose - and one purpose only - marketing - to sell the Boy Scouts to boys and their parents in the UK).

    Every volunteer Scouter should look in the mirror if they want to know who is responsible for keeping the program grounded and cool.  When it comes right down to it, the Scouts in your units aren't looking at Surbaugh - most have never heard of them.  They are looking at US.  WE are the ones that put on the program on a day to day, week to week, month to month, year to year basis.  If the program is not grounded and cool, its out fault.  Even in the "infamous" 1970's program, the Troops that thrived were the ones that kept on providing cool outdoor programming.

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  19. 2 hours ago, MattR said:

     Both a two hour (for parents) and a full day training (for scouters) of patrol method/boy led/fun with a purpose would prevent all these confusing threads. Just imagine if the BSA put on such a training. Every time someone new came here and started asking about adult/scout interactions we could just say "we strongly suggest any adult take this training. It will really help. There are scenarios. You can roll play. It's fun. You'll finally get past all the mystery and know when to step in and when to step back."

    But no, we'll never see it. Instead we now have this vague phrase, family camping, that's really going to make things worse.

     

    The BSA already trains adult leaders in the Patrol Method - its part of the Scoutmaster-specific training.

    The expectation is that Scoutmasters will learn this, that ASM's will learn this - and that they will bring it back to the units, and implement it. The Scoutmaster is the "chief program officer" of the Troop - one of his responsibilities is to bring the committee/parents up to speed on what the program is all about - and that means "training" the committee/parents in the Patrol Method and how it works. 

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  20. Not keen on having a Bear Grylls type as a BSA ambassador - Grylls show is a "realty - yeah right" kind of show - he's made a name for himself on TV faking survival situations.

    I think someone like Paul Sereno, a Paleontologist from the University of Chicago would be a much better ambassador. 

    Why settle for a fake adventurer when you can have a real adventurer?

  21. On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 3:24 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Jacshirts are no longer allowed to have patches on them, except a few specific ones in specific spots.

    Can you point to the documentation for that?  I've read the insignia guide and though it does say where specific patches may be placed, and limits the large patches to one only, I can't find where it limits other patches.

  22. 8 hours ago, Trail_on said:

    Question, If a Leaders re charter did not get completed by the Council. The deadline date of Jan 31 of the year is the leader still held to the Guide lines of BSA. Would they not just be a parent at that point?

    There has been an event that has caused a leader to loose there membership. The information is regarding the  decision is very gray. 

    If the adult is not a registered leader at that time then the actions that happened would not apply.

    There is something that is a bit unclear.  Was this leader on the unit's recharter application and the Council struck them from the re-charter or did this leader just not re-apply? 

    It's just a question of curiosity though, as it's a bit of a moot point.

    Sometimes, National will "revoke the membership" of former, non-registered Scouters so that there is both an official notification to the former Scouter that they are no longer allowed to be a leader, and a notation in the records so that  a "persona non-grata" cannot re-register in a different council - and that may be the case here. 

    In addition, if a background check reveals issues with someone who is a former leader or a person who has never been a leader that would have resulted in their removal from Scouting, they could be barred from Scouting - even if the event took place when they were not registered.

    Welcome to the forum.

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