CynicalScouter

4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I thought BSA killed the Patrol Method back in 2018 when EVERYTHING, including patrol meetings and activities needed 2 registered adults over 21?

Yep. Let's go back to the good old days of the 1950s and 1960s. Because that worked SO well.

Oh, wait, it didn't. It result in thousands of sexually abused scouts.

Just now, RememberSchiff said:

Hopefully, Mr. Johnson brings printouts of that data just as Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen did.

Here's another scary possibility: the data doesn't exist. Who knows if BSA is actually keeping numerical track of the number of incidents, data associated with the incidents (unit, council, type of abuse, victim characteristics, abuser characteristics, etc.) or if it is just burying its head in the sand and saying "Everything is fine."

Or it is just cursory: number of incidents. Which is a starting point, but does not allow BSA or anyone to really examine the how/why of the abuse and how/why to stop it.

1 minute ago, Eagledad said:

Then you really don't know.

Nope, I do not. But when the man in charge of the program for 10 years says "We have a problem" I'll take his expertise over your lack-of-knowledge any day of the week.

Just now, Eagle1993 said:

How & when did the abuse occur.  What other mitigations could have been in place to prevent that abuse?  Lack of training, better screening of volunteers, tenting policies, etc.  I think there could be other answers outside ending Scouts BSA.

I agree. My broader point is the BSA is a black hole in black box in a black bag. There is precisely ZERO data reported on any of this for the public or researchers outside of those handpicked/cherry picked by BSA.

That's why the Catholic Church and USA Gymnastics got OUTSIDERS to audit and review and PUBLISH for the public and what Johnson is advocating for in terms of BSA.

Unless and until BSA is willing to open up and be 80-90% transparent (we don't need to know victim names, for example, but knowing type of abuse, council, program type, etc.) BSA will never be a credible source.

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Is this really a problem? What percent of scouts were abused?

The former head of Youth Protection for BSA says it is. You know more than him?

As for percent, BSA made darn sure it will NEVER, EVER release that data. Johnson, who DID see that data, says it is a problem. But again: you know more than him?

But let me ask this: what percentage of sexually abused scouts is acceptable enough to protect your precious, precious patrol method? How many cases of sexual abuse until you believe change should be made? 1%? 10%? 50%?

How many sexually abused scouts are you OK with, in other words, in order to preserve the status quo?

I have my number: zero. Zero scouts should be sacrificed to ensure BSA remains as it was circa 1960 or 1950 or whatever.

Change needs to happen, and it is CLEAR that BSA will not do so of its own volition. Therefore, the court will have to impose it on BSA through the appointment of outside monitor(s).

Johnson wants Congress to act as well. Fine, but in the short term the judge can impose it.

7 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Ah, teenage cub scouts. That's healthy for the culture. Adults will never grow up. 

At the risk of repeating myself: I'm happy to hear if you have a 4th option.

Just now, Eagledad said:

LOL, really! Please expand. 

Barry

If Boy Scouts of America cannot operate the patrol method in a way that does not result in this level of child sexual abuse, then it has three choices:

1. Continue to operate the patrol method and accept as a given the current level of child sexual abuse and subsequent lawsuits.
2. Modify the patrol method to ensure scout safety. That means no more scout-only activities (as already has occurred with needing two-deep leadership). That means tearing Scouts BSA in half (11-14/15-18).
3. End the patrol method.

I'm happy to hear if you have a 4th option.

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Another nail in the Patrol Method coffin. Patrol Method works best with mature role models. Prepubescent scout are not mature enough for a mature program. 

If a byproduct of the patrol method is child sexual abuse, then the patrol method has to go. Period.

33 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Not really...we do this, for overnighters.  Wanna camp out with us? Gotta have a background check...

By the way: this USED to be called ScoutParent and evolved (sorta) into Unit Scouter Reserve.

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I see the 72 Hour rule as a result of Cub Scouts, not Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing

Yeah, I can see that this will absolutely devastate Cub Scouts unless BSA is prepared to pick up the tab for thousands upon thousands of criminal background checks (at least).

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

Someone meaning who? and Why?

6 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO, Mr. Johnson should have had someone review and edit his arguments.

According to the PDF's metadata, the PDF was created by Joelle Casteix. Maybe she reviewed?

https://www.snapnetwork.org/joelle_casteix

https://twitter.com/joellecasteix?lang=en

Just now, johnsch322 said:

My ex wife had to go to the RCMP in Canada for a background check before she was allowed to go on an overnight with our daughters Girl Scout/Girl Guide troop.  And we paid for it out of our pocket.

Yep, eh (sorry, had to).

What I bet is going to happen is that this is going cause major issues with some dads who have (non-sexual-offense) criminal records that they do NOT want disclosed but they still want to go camp with their sons. As soon as they get confronted with the need to clear a CBC, they'll pull their kids out of scouting (rather than just, you know, not camp).

Just now, Eagle1993 said:

Personal interview

This is IN THEORY what the CORs are supposed to be doing. As we know: it doesn't happen or if it does, it is rare.

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

That is how our GSUSA Troops do it.  There is 0% chance I can be near the kids without registering.

I stood with my daughter at cookie booths. Cookie booths. Broad daylight. Registered adult leaders (GSUSA style). Background checked.

3 minutes ago, malraux said:

While I understand the point, its hard to balance the goal of checking everyone who accompanies a group with a rule of every part of the program is open to parents to observe.

"In light of 100 years of child sexual abuse inside scouting, we have to ensure that anyone who has overnight access to a scout is criminal background checked. This applies to everyone, so please don't feel you are being singled out or picked on."

There, done.

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Known offenders are still volunteering in Scouts BSA and continue to have access to youth. This is because of a lack of accountability by chartering organizations, lack of access to chartering organizations’ internal lists of known offenders, and religious beliefs in some chartering organizations that allow access to scouting youth by those accused of abuse.

This is going straight after the Catholic units. Moreover, this gets even more broadly at what I had previously stated: the entire CO system is a joke. The COs/CORs are SUPPOSED to be reviewing these people and at the very least interviewing them. The adult applications going back to the 1920s had lines that the COR/Institutional Head had reviewed the applicant.

We know that is mostly not true, that the CORs are simply signing whatever is put under their noses, etc.

You may recall the recent Senate hearing where members of the USA Gymnastics team testified about their abuse.

I wonder what it would take to get a similar House/Senate hearing on BSA in particular or youth organization sexual abuse in general.

7 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

If a professional consultant or board member's resume showed a 10 year director position where he/she had continuing unresolved issues, I imagine that consultant or board member would perform career damage control.

Anyway, a possible explanation as to timing and motive.

My $0.02

I agree that is possible and a fair question. If I am reading where he is going (especially the 72 hour rule) it is going the way of "I objected to every part of this every step of the way and then when I couldn't take it anymore I quit."

5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Scouts BSA should immediately hire a full-time child protection director (preferably nonscouter) with significant experience and knowledge in responding to all forms of child sexual abuse and with particular expertise in prevention, recognition, and response to abuse within institutions. This full-time director should report to the CEO and be assisted with additional employees and experts who serve each region of the country. In this way, frontline scouting leaders will have access to knowledgeable in-house expertise.

This is what USA Gymnastics did and what the Catholic Church has done at the national level and in each Diocese.

Why on earth BSA continues to fight this is beyond me.

Johnson on "Some examples of this standard of care failure include:”

• More than 50% of the reported sexual abuse incidents into Scouts BSA are perpetrated by youth in the program. This is due to a lack of adult supervision and vigilance on the part of Scouts BSA including: lack of screening of youth; the large range of ages of youth at many events; and the lack of diligence to inform parents, youth, and leaders of the risk.

• Lack of proper screening procedures for adult volunteers and leaders (per CDCs “Preventing Child Sexual Abuse Within Youth-serving Organizations” and the Non- Profit Risk Management Center document on screening volunteers).

• Known offenders are still volunteering in Scouts BSA and continue to have access to youth. This is because of a lack of accountability by chartering organizations, lack of access to chartering organizations’ internal lists of known offenders, and religious beliefs in some chartering organizations that allow access to scouting youth by those accused of abuse.

• Lack of reference checks for volunteers, lack of an interview to determine a potential volunteer’s fitness, and decades -long inadequate criminal background screening. Studies show that less than 10% of child predators are arrested throughout their lifetime and less than one in five who are arrested are prosecuted.2 Reference checks and interviews are vital for protection against the vast majority of those who prey on children.

• Against my recommendations, Scouts BSA installed a policy – the “72-Hour Rule” -that is inconsistent with ALL research for adults involved with youth, especially during overnight programming (camping). This “rule” continues to effectively allow ANYONE to accompany scouts on overnight trips without any proper screening — as long as the adult leaves prior to the elapse of 72 hours. If the trip or campout is shorter, this policy effectively allows unvetted adults access and opportunity to scouting youth. It is of note this policy became effective at about the time girls were introduced into the Scouts BSA program.

• BSA continues to minimize the significance of child sexual abuse risk in the program.

• There is no expert in child and adolescent development or youth protection currently employed in the national Scouts BSA office to direct its child sexual abuse prevention efforts.

• When I left the organization, I was asked to sign a non-disclosure/non-disparagement agreement in exchange for a large sum of money. I refused.

For ease of reference, I'm posting Johnson's 12 reforms ("Necessary Action Steps")

1. Congress should begin immediate hearings and an investigation into the scope and breadth of child sexual abuse, predatory grooming, and the cover-up of crimes against children in Scouts BSA. The investigation should include specific dangers to female and LGBTQ+ youth, the issue of preventable youth-on-youth sexual violence, and the institutional disregard for the plight of survivors and their families. The investigation should include a review of the misuse of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code to subvert the exposure of sex crimes against children.
2. Congress should review the Scouts BSA federal charter and consider revising any and all federal charters and protections due to immediate threats to child safety and the cover-up of sexual abuse.
3. Similar to what has recently been done in the Olympics,3 Scouts BSA should work with independent non-scouting researchers and experts to conduct a baseline study to assist in determining the extent of child abuse within the organization, the manner in which offenses were carried out, the leadership structure and decision-making process, and the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness of various responses. Without this baseline information, it will be impossible to determine the extent of abuse within Scouts BSA and whether or not current or future policies are effective in protecting children from abuse.
4. Given the large number of youth-on-youth sexual abuse within scouting, a non-scouting independent task force of experts on problematic sexual behaviors of children4 should be created to evaluate past and current risks to scouts in all scouting programs. This task force should include experts on the emergence of pedophilic thoughts in adolescence,5 other sexually deviant behaviors, and develop and recommend a robust plan to prevent youth on- youth sexual abuse. The report, results and recommendations from this task force should be provided to the National Executive Board by the Youth Protection Director and the recommendations of the task force must be a public document.
5. Scouts BSA employees and volunteers should have a recurring background and reference check every two years that exceed the recognized Standard of Care recommended by the CDC.
6. Scouts BSA should actively collaborate with other Youth Serving Organizations and congress in creating a system of sharing lists of individuals banned or removed from the organizations for abuse, serious policy or code of conduct violations against program youth—even if these violations fall short of the required threshold that triggers an investigation by law enforcement. This should be in addition to creating low-cost background checks that will benefit children in every youth-serving organization.
7. No unvetted adults should be allowed to lead or accompany scouts on trips/overnight campouts of any duration.
8. Scouts BSA should immediately hire a full-time child protection director (preferably nonscouter) with significant experience and knowledge in responding to all forms of child sexual abuse and with particular expertise in prevention, recognition, and response to abuse within institutions. This full-time director should report to the CEO and be assisted with additional employees and experts who serve each region of the country. In this way, frontline scouting leaders will have access to knowledgeable in-house expertise.
9. Scouts BSA should publicly release all data and reports compiled by Janet I. Warren, DSW, in her multiple reviews of internal and independent reviews of Ineligible Volunteer Files. They should also release all research, surveys, and requests generated internally and externally on adult-on-youth and youth-on-youth sexual abuse.
10. Scouts BSA should welcome the input and active roles of Scouts BSA survivors at the national executive board level of the organization. This includes inclusion of survivors on advisory boards, task forces, and within any departments, committees, study groups, or taskforces on child protection from the local councils to national level volunteer and paid positions.
11. Scouts BSA should create a non-scouting, 10-member expert advisory panel to advise the national organization on all child, adolescent, and teen issues. This panel should work directly with the Director of Youth Protection to install all reforms needed to keep youth safe and begin the process of restoring public and parent confidence.
12. Congress should maintain bi-annual oversight of these and all recommended reforms.

So, I read his 12 recommendations. In short, as I've said and others; the BSA cannot be trusted. OUTSIDE folks with NO BSA connections (no more insiders) need to be put in charge or have oversight power over this process.

A lot of this tracks with the USA Gymnastics resolution: outside experts, outside committee of victims and experts, etc.

No more hand picked BSA people telling BSA what they want to hear: everything is fine.

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Should I forward a copy to our SE?

Why not at this point?

11 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Hmmm...It was MJ who tried to skewer me in an email back in 2019 when I pointed out 1) widespread confusion with and implementation of the 72-hour policy,

Read the letter ThenNow just posted from Johnson

Quote

Against my recommendations, Scouts BSA installed a policy – the “72-Hour Rule” -
that is inconsistent with ALL research for adults involved with youth, especially during
overnight programming (camping). This “rule” continues to effectively allow
ANYONE to accompany scouts on overnight trips without any proper screening — as
long as the adult leaves prior to the elapse of 72 hours. If the trip or campout is shorter,
this policy effectively allows unvetted adults access and opportunity to scouting youth.
It is of note this policy became effective at about the time girls were introduced into
the Scouts BSA program.

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

This is like an election year "October Surprise."

I said earlier, my pure tinfoil hat theory is that this was timed to hit right when the bankruptcy ballots were getting into the mailboxes of the victims to vote no.

It could be pure coincidence. But there's a cynical part of me (get it, ha!) that says this press conference timing was not a coincidence and is timed to have maximum effect on the vote.

So yes, literally an October Surprise.