Scouter4Family

3 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

A good site to begin your search for all those "hidden gems" is https://tap.scouting.org/

 Near the bottom of the page is a link to "Council High Adventure Camps".  This is an excellent resource listing more HA camps than you ever knew existed!  

This is Perfect, Mrkstvns!  Thanks so much!

On 10/9/2019 at 5:56 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Unless things have changed 13 and First Class are the minimum requirements to do a HA base.

Some bases are 14+, some are 13 by Jan 1st the year of event and completion of 8th grade and some are 13 by event participation. I even seen one base that said 12yo by Jan 1st the year of event during some research. Some summer camps are coming up with “older scout” itineraries too, like Many Point in MN.   

I agree that 12 and 13yo is to young for some programs, and it can take away from the 14+ scouts experience.  I am doing research and trying to figure the best balance for my situation, but am also finding that researching camps is difficult because there seems to be some hidden gems out there that don’t show up on a google search.  

Hello, Our troop is doing some planning and I wanted to get some fresh ideas on favorite High Adventure Bases or camps with "older scout" programs that will also allow 13 year old scouts?  What did you like about the adventure?  Thanks in advance.

34 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

Well, if the troop is being run properly, there shouldn't be just one person handling it. The Patrol Leader Council, under the leadership of the Senior Patrol Leader, should be running things, and they in turn are supported and assisted by the Scoutmaster and at least one but ideally two or three ASMs. It sounds to me like your Scouts still operate under the firm thumb of the adults involved, and have not been given any remotely like the autonomy with which Scouting is supposed to empower them. As is almost ALWAYS the case, the adults need to back off and let the boys run their own program.

You are reading into it wrong. The issue outlined in this post is such a small aspect of what happens in the troop as a whole. Yes, the troop is scout ran, the adults stay behind the scenes.  But a lot of logistics happen behind the scenes as it does in all troops.   I was only looking for opinions on pertinent topic. 

On 9/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, fred8033 said:

There is nothing worse in a troop than mixed messages from different leaders.  All adults in the troop need to be on-board with the SM vision, especially the ASMs.  If you want to help "empower" the scouts, work with the SM and make sure he understands, agrees and shows some "buy-in".  

Agreed. 

On 9/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, fred8033 said:

Build a relationship / friendship with the SM>  It will make life easier.  

Yes sir, I agree....and have tried for 3 years.  The troop is 40 scouts strong now, to much for 1 person to handle.  If I see a struggle in one section of the troop, I will do what I can to assist, to make it better. A solid relationship and effective communication is something that I will remain hopeful for but at the end of the day it’s all about the scouts. 

On 9/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, fred8033 said:

This may not be your situation, but I've seen adults clash and future problems develop because one or two adults are pushing change without good coordination with the SM and CC.

Part of the root problem is that 15 of the scouts came from my wife’s and I pack and the rest from SM pack, so I feel an obligation to them.  SM and CC are married. Both good people and handle their roles well but it does take a certain aspect out of the equation. For me this is a non issue because the benefit outweighs that aspect.   There is parents that just show up or drop off their scouts, I am not one of those parents, I show up wanting to help anytime that work doesn’t get in the way. So to be treated like a parent that “just shows up” is hard....so for me personally I don’t want a public thanks when tasks are done, all I want is basic respect in the form of effective communication....and I think this goes for most Adult Leaders. 

This is post has gone a lot deeper than I intended, but I have gotten a lot out of from you alls experience. Thanks again. 

Thanks for all the input and advise.  After thinking about it and reading post I have decided that the root problem is that most of our scouts don't understand that they have SO much control of their scouting career.  I need to work on getting them to understand that and truly let them create their adventure, let them become leaders.  The communication block between SM and other leaders would be very nice and make everything so much easier but it is not needed if the scouts are empowered.  There is a lot of good things happening in our troop (credit to SM mostly) to focus on and I would hate to jeopardize that.  

Thanks again and Happy Scouting!! 

@David CO true statement.  Yes, we do unit elections. The problem is that this group of 5-6 scouts returned from a high adventure camp along with ASM and SM and while they were on the trip they decided where we were going next, and an email was sent out to all the parents from SM stating where we were going next, in this case new leadership wouldn’t help.SM overstepped the “youth led” boundary. 

47 minutes ago, TMSM said:

This "seperation" seems to be a common occurance for our troop. As the SM gets closer to  the end he tries to make sure the scouts he has worked with for many years get the Eagle MBs needed and that the older scouts get a break from the young ones.

This is where the "mid" scouts need to decide what HA they want to do and how they want the troop to be run. The 12-14 year olds should forget about what the older scouts are doing and build their own adventure. The SM and ASM should be fully supportive and help the mid scouts start taking ownership of the troop.

I like this POV. Thanks!  Just letting it happen and rolling with the punches as you have done and let the groups that got separated “create their own adventure” is an excellent way to look at it. We would just need a few more ASM and a little more communication I think.

40 minutes ago, David CO said:

Let each patrol get together and decide for themselves.  They don't need either you or the scoutmaster to do this.  Once they decide, suggest that they take their plans to the committee.

Yes,  correct.   Currently they are being told where we are going because the 5-6 scouts decided a destination....so in order for them to think they have a choice, an adult leader would need to step in and give them that choice I think.  unfortunately, this could cause some tension.  Or I could just sit back and let it happen.  I was thinking of making packets for each high adventure camp (including current plan) and let them decide/vote/work it out and then come to us.  If all high adventure crews will be on separate itineraries Then I personally don’t see an issue with offering a different camp all together. I was just wanting opinions before I decided to open up that can of worms. 

44 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

That SM needs to start a Venturing Crew

You are probably right!  However, part of me hopes it doesn’t happen because I am hoping to do that when both of my kids are old enough and I don’t think there is room for 2 crews in my town. Lol. But that would be a good thing for that group of older scouts. 

41 minutes ago, MattR said:

Let's take a brief survey of what the troop is doing right. How many campouts and service projects do you have a year? What's the participation level? Does the SPL really run the meetings or does he just do as some adult says? Do patrol leaders lead their patrols or do they just handle communication and paperwork?

Yes sir, there is a lot of good things happening here. Everything you mentioned here has been good for us. The only bad thing I am seeing is this; The separation in the troop is new and since it’s been happening the older scouts have been getting accustomed to being separate and in turn their leadership towards the younger scouts has been lacking. 

46 minutes ago, MattR said:

How does the SM interact with younger scouts? Is the program set up for all of the scouts?

SM is good with younger scouts. Program is set up for all scouts but it is leading to be more set up for older scouts unless I stand up for the needs of the younger scouts in the capacity of not letting 6 scouts decide everything for the group of 40, which could potentially cause some drama. 

54 minutes ago, MattR said:

Are there any parents not a part of the group of 5-6 that are active ASM's? If no, that's a bigger problem then what you have here. If so, how many?

No, I am the only parent not part of the 5-6 that is a ASM. There is 2 other ASM parents in the group. 

20 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

As an interest point, what (if any other than an interested parent) is your role with the troop?

ASM

Our SM’s last son in scouts is now HS age and I think the SM is on his way out after his son eagles, I do not know his plan because he will not communicate plans with anyone. My issue is that the SM has been organizing Merit badges classes for only his son and friends which is 5-6 scouts out of 40 in the troop. He is making high adventure plans with only that same group of scouts, then tells the rest of the troop they can go to the same base but choose a different adventure (1 week vs 2 week trek) on a separate itinerary.  I feel like since the SM is on his way out (unconfirmed) he doesn’t care as much about the rest of troop. There has been a huge division in the troop the last year from all of this among other things.  I guess I am looking for some opinions on the situation because I don’t want to overreact. Should I just sit back and let it all continue and not raise tensions more or should I take some things into my own hands and help the younger scouts pursue merit badges and rank via other routes?  Should we “tag along” on these high adventure camps or should I get a vote from the rest of the eligible scouts in the troop on where they would like to go and help them get there?  I wish I could offer more input on SM plans but he is very bad about not responding to texts and emails, if you engage in person he will dance around the question and then eventually just walk away. 

Thanks in advance for input. 

On 8/18/2019 at 1:45 PM, skeptic said:

The National Lodge needs tor to reevaluate the history and find a way to reinstate the mystique and actual "honor" in being a member.  It has been beaten to death, but there need to be more actual limits on eligibility that make it less a "gimme".  They sill have a purpose and in ur council do help, though, as noted, getting higher participation is difficult.  But that has as much to do with the lesser honor issues than simply the over-scheduled lives of the scouts in general. 

 

Good comment. I agree that elegibility has become a little more of a “gimme” over the years but that is true across the board for all programs in our current culture across the U.S., not just in the OA or scouting for that matter. I don’t think the honor is missing from the program, it is missing from today’s youth as a whole.  Today’s culture is more concerned about image than they are about honor, and unfortunately that shows up in our scouts and sometimes even the adult leaders wanting their kids to be the “popular” scouts. In turn-sometimes....most of the time in my opinion-the more popular scouts get voted into OA instead of the scouts that may put the needed time into the program, or the scouts that have been highly active in the troops activities.

On 8/18/2019 at 6:00 PM, my_three_sons said:

We had 3 scout eligible this spring and two were elected then a short time before the Call Out ceremony out Chapter adult leader call to tell me that he could put the third scout in since he can put in deserving scouts that don't get elected.  I told him that I have never heard of that before and no the troops vote can stand but he replied that there weren't many scout elected for our chapter.  Sometimes it feels like they want more Arrowmen just to have a larger audience to sell all of their OA swag to.

I can’t help but wonder if that is what happened in this case and the chapter leader gave the opportunity to make a right.  If this is what happened then I would have no issue at all guiding that “deserving” scout onto the right path (for the good of the program and the scout if it was his ambition)and keep it between chapter leader and SM. Right or wrong, this kind of stuff has always happened long before cell phones and forums were available for proof of the action. Just my opinion. 

Happy Scouting!!