RainShine

skills not advancement, I like that. but he doesnt want to do Scouty skills stuff. Cant be bothered with participating in KP duty, sits in his tent eating sugar puffs. Everyone is tying knots or whatever, he sits by himself on his phone.

But yes, thanks Mr. quazse, for the advice. You make a good point sir.

He goes on campouts infrequently, but yes he went this past weekend to Camporee. He participated some.  And apparently the range officer asked him and his buddy to clean rifles at the end of the day, and they did it. Yes he can be disruptive at times. Bored with "scout stuff", he will change the subject to Ukraine war or whatever.

He is a likeable fellow, funny and charismatic. No one, including me, would want him gone. 

His best buddy in the troop -  they didn't know each other before Scouts - will certainly be Eagle someday. So he's not affecting everyone. But we have definitely set a precedent here. And evidently the younger Scouts now consider this is a legit option.

Our troop has a Scout that cant be bothered with advancement. I'll call him Bobby. He joined before pandemic and he's probably 15 or 16 now. He told me, years ago, he didn't want to do rank advancement. I told him he couldn't disrespect it to the other Scouts. That's been our agreement. Sure enough, he's never done a thing (except I told his parents they had to do the Scout rank youth protection or he couldn't participate, so he did that). I have heard the other Scouts rib him for it, and tell him how embarrassing it must be, but it doesn't bother him. He wont do it. And sure enough, Bobby has no skills. Doesn't really want to do Scouts, just wants to talk politics.

Okay fast forward. Last night at PLC I asked the patrol leaders where their guys were with rank advancement, and if they needed anything from me. The one PL says, oh you don't have to worry about the new guy Billy, he talked to Bobby and now Billy has decided not to do rank advancement. <aneurism here>

I take responsibility for this situation. But I ask your advice. Please advise.

Yeah I was expecting Scoutbook and SignUp Genius, and Ive learned some troops use CheddarUp. One Scoutmaster I spoke with locally is enthused about troopwebhost for all this.

InquisitiveScouter, you guys are light years ahead of us. If I quit my job and started now, how long would it take to set all that up?

How do your Scouts sign up for outings?  And, is there a cut-off after which they cant sign up? 

There are many activities my Scouts do outside the troop, hockey, skiing, loads of stuff. If only those coaches were merit badge counselors. Perhaps I could get in touch with them and ask. I always ask the Scouts parents to ask the coach but Ive never gotten a favorable response to that.

Question: if the coach has already done youth protection from some other organization, would that count or does it pretty much have to be the Scouts BSA YP program?

boy, not enough hours in the day... 

The Scoutmaster at a nearby troop says they are all in with Discord, with a troop server, and each patrol has a channel or whatever its called, and a PLC channel, and a parent channel. He said wow its great. I've done a tiny bit on Discord and yeah it's good, and would be fun to use. So I brought it up at a PLC. Our SPL said it wont work because you have to be 13yo to use Discord, so that would exclude a good many Scouts in our small troop.

I just found this reddit thread. I guess all those services have a similar age limit and we ignore it. So why different for Discord? Meet em where they're at, right? okay... except my SPL said its not allowed so I guess there's the answer. 

What are others doing?

22 minutes ago, MattR said:

is it okay if I combine these threads?

sure, whatever you think best

I.WANT.HIM.GONE          dun dun DUNN!

Last week I got a call from Committee Chair, great guy. He told me he was expecting Mr. Pillar at Committee that night. He's not on Committee, he's listed as ASM. 

I wasnt at the Committee meeting, of course. I was at the troop meeting. But apparently they took care of their other business then gave Mr. P the floor. I was told he started with I.WANT.HIM.GONE and then proceeded to attack me. They listened to him. Apparently he brought up the summer camp episode, the long ago, never explained suspicions from a Webelo mom, and the fact that a Scout and his dad went to another troop because of me. He also said I patted a Scout on the shoulder, of which I have no recollection. He suggested that there were people at the church that would take on SM.

Committee told him, if there are adults at church that want to participate in the troop, they should contact the Committee. Of the past accusations, the Committee told him he should file a complaint at the time. Why didnt he file? It would be negligent to have something and not file, so where was the complaint? There was the summer camp thing, which Council said had been dropped. They said patting on shoulder was noted, but didnt cross a line. They told him they're not firing me.

So this fellow... I mean, when the last SM retired (what a great guy he was), I wrote a big letter to the Committee putting my hat in the ring. Not only would I do it, I wanted to do it. No one else applied. I later saw Mr. Pillar, acknowledged my application, and he said Yeah Im too busy. Nevertheless, I really wonder if he wants the role of Scoutmaster. I wonder, speculating, if he was hurt that he wasnt begged to do it.

Another thing, while we're speculating. At summer camp, he led an effort during a camp event. It went really well and our Scouts liked it. Great job. But I noticed... he selected all the guys that participated, and they all went to the church. Its just something I noticed. The werent the oldest guys, or the best Scouts, First Class, or any other commonality. Then, during the Committee meeting, he said there were people at the church that would do it (be SM). I know the church is part of his life, so I'm guessing he wants the troop to be a little church island. And no, I dont go to church there.

There is something else, but I dont want to create a part 4, jeez.  At a summer camp years ago, he publicly accused a Scout of stealing. The stolen goods were later found, fallen behind a cot. The Scout was mortified. I was away, I had to go into town to buy stuff. But when I returned the campsite was quiet and weird. And I overheard one Scout say to another, That was bullshit. I later found out what happened, and a ASM told me, of the SM role, "it cant be Mr. Pillar". It caused a wound in the troop. Mr. P never publicly apologized to that Scout.

You know we like to talk about train wrecks. No-one talks much about the trains that delivered their cargo safely, that arrived on time, etc. In fact, the Scouts and families like me. A lot. I've read some stuff on this forum, terrible parents (why isnt my kid Eagle yet!), terrible this and that. Except for this fellow, we all get along pretty well. I dont get any of that bad parent stuff. We have great parents. I told them, for instance, we needed a deep bench of registered adults, and they went and got registered. 

The Scouts are, well, kind of rowdy sometimes... not perfect. They're not the most skilled troop, okay? my bad. But they're great guys. They listen to my input, mostly. And, I mean, theres no trouble. They're, like, you know, Boy Scouts! We got guys ranking up. We go to new places. We got new families coming aboard. Our troop is small but the future is bright.

A group of guys asked me how long I will be SM. I promised to continue until X Y and Z become Eagle. X and Y are Life, and Z is Star. So, really, not that terribly much longer. I think X and Y will Eagle by summer. It could take that Star Scout another year or more. And then another Scout overheard, who just became First Class, he was like Me too, me too! I did not promise him, but he remembers it differently 🙂

Whew, I cant believe I said all this to you folks.

I agree. Ive learned a lot since then.

🙂 Thats cool. I'm just talkin' anyway. Y'all talk about important stuff on here. I'm not even looking for advice really.  We can forget it if you prefer.

I will deliver a continuation from my earlier post later. But first, if it pleases the court, two stories:

 Story 1

My son was doing Arrow of Light and the den leader was flaking out so I took over, and I did a great job. 7 of the 9 guys got AoL and 8 of them crossed over to Scouts. When my son crossed over, I did too, and I went to the troop Committee. But I heard, back in the Pack, there were to be 16 Webelo Scouts moving to AoL. Wow that will be a riot. I offered to do another stint as AoL den leader, so there would be two dens, and this was accepted. Great.

But when the time came, there weren’t 16. There were, like, 9 if I remember. So two AoL dens weren’t needed. And yet, I stuck around, like gum on the den leaders shoe. I had been really good at AoL den leader, and I was eager for another success. Trouble was, I was no longer needed or wanted there. I ‘helped’ for too long, and stepped on the toes of the AoL den leader. Once I realized I was being a jerk, I departed. I apologized to the AoL den leader. Not one of those apologies, like I’m sorry but… it was a real apology with no but’s. He accepted it, but damage was done. When it came time for his son and him to cross over, I was now SM at the troop. They chose another troop. I know that wasn’t the only reason, but it was a real reason.

 Since then, he and I stay in touch. They are doing well, in fact he is now SM at the other troop. We bumped into each other at a neighborhood spot recently and chatted and laughed about Scouting, the way SM’s do. Last week I emailed him about borrowing some training gear, and his reply was easy and affirmative. I’d say we have a pretty good relationship. But yes, they went to a different troop because of me. No youth protection issue, mind you, but we lost a good Scout and parent because of me.

 Story 2

I was ASM. We had some Webelo Scouts scheduled to visit, so I suggested to the PLC an activity – you guys know it – where they build these tripods and the Scouts climb up on them. Our troop had never done it. The Scouts would do the lashings and the Webelos would finish the lashing with a square knot. Great. PLC approved it, so I got the spars and ropes, and taught the PLs the lashings. Time for the big night, it didn’t go great at first. The Scouts skill level was low, they asked for my help which I provided. I was very busy, working two builds at once. In fact, everyone had a great time, smiles all around. The Webelo Scouts all finished the lashings with their new square knot skills, and everyone had fun. It could have been a disaster, but in the end a big success.

 After the meeting, the two ASM’s, one of whom was Mr. Pillar from the Summer Camp Episode, asked me aside (the SM was away that night). They said a Webelo mom had suspicion’s about me. I said Oh, what did I do wrong? Both were cheerful, and said don’t worry about it, but be careful. I said, well but, wait, what did I do? What did she say? They waved me off cheerfully, and said, don’t worry about it. Well, I worried about it for months. Years. I still do. I cant imagine a youth protection offense. There were probably 30 people there, tons of adults all around. And I was busy! I was up to my neck in program, helping the Scouts with their lashings. I didn’t really interact with the Webelos. I took a few photos, like others did, but no-one asked to see them, so that cant be it. Nothing more was ever said about it to me.

Ah, but dear reader, both these stories appear in Part 2, The Committee Meeting.

Sorry I couldnt today. tomorrow I will get out Part 2 - The Committee Meeting.

Lots to say but first, I recognize this could have been a lot worse. Waaay worse. The kid could have said I touched him or myself or something.

In fact, having thought about it (and thought about it, and thought about it...) I mean, his story... think about that... that I came over and leaned over and looked down at him. He was in bed. I think he dreamed it. Seriously. I think he dreamed it. A branch or something cast a shadow on his face and he dreamed it, and he probably sat upright scared out of his wits. full on nightmare type thing. 

The only knock on that theory is the guy is 15. He aint some little kid anymore. 

But he obviously doesnt like me. Before Covid, I was on Committee then ASM, another kid reported that he said disparaging remarks about me. Thats fine, I mean I made a mental note but its fine. I remember one time he said Hello to me and that was so remarkable I considered it was a major breakthrough. Then that weird episode in line at the dining hall. "WHY?" I mean, it was harsh.

My mom always told me, Consider the source. And I know there is a lot going on in that family. BTW the 11yo, nice kid, no problem. During the week we eventually did Scout rank requirements. The little brother was friendly, courteous, kind...

Hey there folks. We have a small troop, 12-14 active Scouts. I became Scoutmaster in January 2020. Our charter org is a church in our neighborhood. There is a man at the church, very active in the church, a pillar of the community, I guess. 

Mr. Pillar used to participate as an ASM before Covid, as his son, Billy, a young Scout at the time, participated. When covid hit, we went to Zoom meetings like so many troops did. Their participation dropped off and then stopped. Understandable. Over time, well for brevity I will just say, despite covid, lots of Scouting happened. Finally things returned to normal. But we hadn't seen Mr. Pillar or his now 15yo son until summer camp.

Summer Camp Episode

Off we go to summer camp. We get there Sunday afternoon and everyone was excited. We went to the dining room, standing in line with all the other troops, I asked each of my guys what merit badges they were signed up for. Each one told me, Oh I'm signed up for swimming, I'm signed up for Cooking, I'm signed up for Metal Working, I'm gonna do Polar Bear Plunge, on and on. Everyone was laughing and cutting up. I get to Billy and I ask him what merit badges he signed up for. He glares at me and says WHY?  

Why? um okay, I was just... I was stunned. I didnt know what to say. I think I said Nevermind, but I dont know if I said anything. I talked to each Scout, but that guy was cranky so I left him alone. True, I had long ago noticed that kid was kind of sour, but there's all different personalities, so, uhg! but whatever.

Next morning we go to breakfast. The whole camp is gathered outside the dining hall. Hundreds of Scouts, scouters, camp staff. Great weather. My guys are in their line, ready for opening flag ceremony, and again we were chatting, and feelin' the good vibes. I noticed Billy was missing, as was his dad, and was told he went home. Huh? I'm the SM for petes sake, I should know about this. What happened? Nobody knew.

Then our troop ASM comes over and says Hey can you see me over here? I said sure. So we go over there, then around side of the building, and then oddly all the way around back. He was silent and serious as we walked, very weird. We get there, around back of the building, and there's a picnic table at which is sitting the Camp Director and her Assistant, each with a page of hand written notes. And, standing at the head of the table, is Mr. Pillar of the Community.

I said, good morning, wow, what's up? Mr. Pillar, who is visibly upset - red faced, veins bulging - says his son is going home because I acted strangely. I said, Oh, wow, what did I do? I was dumbfounded. He said that Billy said that I went over to his hammock and looked at him. Wha? I ...what? He was in his hammock this morning and you went over and bent over him and looked at him. Well needless to say that didnt happen. I wasnt even exactly sure where his hammock was pitched, in the woods back behind the adirondaks. I hadnt been over there and certainly didnt peer down at a guy. Just simply didnt happen.

There was some talk of sending me home. I mean, it was 8:30 Monday morning, we had been at camp probably 16 hours. I hadn't even had a cup of coffee! The camp director allowed me to stay but asked that I dial back my activity and operate in the background. I said holy cow, I'm the Scoutmaster and you know what, I havent done anything wrong. Not a thing. The camp director said she was required to file a report with Council. Yikes.

Mr. Pillar drove Billy home, leaving me, the ASM, and the troop - including I might add, Mr. Pillar's 11yo son who had just crossed over - at camp. Mr. Pillar came back same day. That evening we passed on the gravel camp road and he said he didn't think I had meant to do anything nefarious. I was dumbstruck and I don't think I responded.

I cant tell you how much this upset me. I couldnt sleep. I relived that meeting in my mind a hundred times. The Scouts inquired about Why did Billy go home, we just said he was homesick, and everyone went about their business. It was a great week otherwise. I assume I was under the microscope that week - scrutinized for any little thing - I don't know. Nobody said anything more to me! It was kind of unbelievable.

Apparently there wasn't much of an investigation. I heard later they had talked to the 11yo son. I don't think they interviewed any of our other Scouts. You know, the Scouts that actually know me? The Scouts that come to all the meetings... that go on all the outings... The Scouts that had been through so much during Covid times? Basically all the other Scouts? I'm pretty sure the Scouts would walk barefoot on hot coals if I asked them to, but I don't think any of them were interviewed.

On Saturday morning we were all packed up and about to drive home. I walked over to the camp director, who was waving goodbye to troops as they departed. We had not spoken again all week. I said I hope next time we visit there is no further drama. She said Yeah me too, or something like that.

Her report was transferred to our Council. Our Committee Chair contacted them about it and was told it was dropped. That's all the information I have and that's pretty much where it stands.

Until this past week. What happened this past week? Ah, dear reader, Part 2.

We've never had singing in our troop. We go off to summer camp or Camporee, other troops are heartily singing. Our guys, nothin'. So when I became Scoutmaster, I vowed to bring singing to the troop. I got the keys in January 2020, then covid hit, uhg.  Then we got busy, everything takes longer than I think! Okay... whatever... here we are, still no singing. I've learned chords on guitar and heck I don't sing either but I'm going to do it. I got some good tunes that I think they will like, and I play them in the car on the way to campouts. But I'm plenty scared. I could seriously fall flat on my face.

Any suggestions before embarking on this adventure?

We have a troop of 20 Scouts, probably 15 are actually active. On any given outing, like the one this weekend, we'll have 8-12 guys. We will have, probably, 12 to 14 sign up for summer camp. We've never done a high adventure camp AFAIK. Like, never.

If we had a group of, say, 8 or so older guys, go off to high adventure camp, what would the other fellows do? I suppose they would go to regular summer camp. But wouldn't they feel abandoned? Or do we send all of them to high adventure? Some of those guys are 11 or 12yo, just fell off the turnip truck, never been to a Scout summer camp, just learning to pitch a tent. They're going off to Philmont?

I mean I could understand if we had a big troop, you just split them up in some way.  What do other small troops do about summer camp v. high adventure?

Quote

Was that an established BSA Council-run camp?  Did the Scouts pick the menus and buy the food?

Yes.  No, the camp set the menu and provided the ingredients each night.

An unfortunate update on my post: its a few years later and that patrol of young Scouts are older now. I hate to say it, but they don't remember the patrol cooking favorably and don't want to go back that camp. As an adult, I thought it was great and I observed the guys made a lot of progress and it was good for them in every way. But in our troop, the Scouts decide which summer camp to visit and they have firmly crossed that one off the list. <heavy sigh> This year's summer camp dining hall food was uneven, at best, but they don't want to cook at summer camp.

I'm fairly new to all this and unsure about requirement fulfillment for first aid. The first aid rank requirements use the word 'show'. So, like, show first aid for nosebleed, pretty straight forward, each Scout  can do that. 

For another example, Scouting.org says this of venomous snakebite: Immobilize the injured part of the body. Gently wash the bite with soap and water. Seek medical care immediately! Carry the victim out, if possible, because their reduced activity may slow the spread of the venom.

Okay so do you have the Scouts wash an ankle or something then practice carrying another guy?

For object in eye, do the Scouts actually flush another guys eye with water? Or do they, you know, just say what they would do and pretend to pour water over an eye? 

I want to get this right and uphold the expected standards.

8 minutes ago, SteveMM said:

Great information.  Those breakout rooms may come in very handy.  We plan to do patrol meetings weekly, rather than trying to have the whole troop on at once.  With the breakout rooms, we could start with the Pledge and Scout Law or Oath with the whole troop, and then send each patrol off to do their things.  I like it.

Yeah thats what we did. You have to have a Pro account and you have to turn on the feature before the meeting. And yeah it takes practice.

Regarding zoombombing, I found it necessary to remove some permissions for my own Scouts. The one fellow was sharing his screen, trying to do his Cyberchip presentation to the troop, and the other guys were drawing on his presentation (the Annotate feature).That quiet guy was the worst  🤨 Also that guy was sharing his screen, kept popping up a picture of a video game character. It wasn't real bad but he could have shown anything. I gotta talk to that Scout.😠

Zoom has a great feature called Breakout Rooms, perfect for patrols, works well although I need practice. I sent the guys off to their rooms and all the adults were left in the main zoom session. But I forgot a Scout, so here's three adults and this one poor guy, he's like, Hey what about me? I said Oh sorry mi amigo, off ya go! and I sent him to his patrol room.  As the host I was able to visit the rooms. In one room the patrol was discussing rank advancement in an orderly fashion. In the other room there was complete chaos, 🤪 situation normal. I just, uh, left 😬.

We all met back in the main zoom room and completed the meeting. It's a good feature.

They're 13 and 14yo's and capable and competent to do this hike. If we quit Scouting and went to that state park with those same buddies, I would not hesitate to send them on that hike while me and the other dads stayed in camp.

When I was that age we got on our bikes and were gone for the afternoon. uhg sorry this makes me frustrated.

I saw a post here where a person was saying, if the situation was right, the adults could stay in camp while the Scouts are on a hike.

We have an outing this year that would be perfect for this. We have a group campsite next to a lake. There is a trail around the lake, 4 miles, flat hiking. No road, just trail, nice woods. I was hoping to stay in camp while patrol A goes clockwise and patrol B goes counterclockwise. I intend to have a PLC that morning to review the map, and then send them with walkie talkies. Then pour a cup of coffee and read the paper.

Thoughts?